Do I need the 580?

[lexonio]

First of all I'd like to say that I'm a hobbyist, not a professional photographer, and only recently did I get into flash photography. My current setup is 550D + 24-105L, but I'm getting one of the 5Ds (ii or iii) when the latter is available. I'm mostly shooting general "walkaround" photography with some lean towards press photography (e.g. political meetings and etc.). I also shoot at weddings, family reunions, that kind of thing. So now I need a flash since many of these events tend to happen indoors, and I'm currently deciding between 430 and 580.

From the looks of it I'll have only one flash for the time being (I'm not a studio photographer, more of an action one), and 580 seems to be easier to operate. On the other hand it's much heavier than the 430 and costs more. Do you experience this additional weight problem, and do you feel that the price difference is justified in this case?

 

[Marsu42]

I recently got a 430ex2, and because of the high value to price relation, I am extremely happy with it. It "just works" which I consider to be a very important thing

I did some research before the purchase and the only reasons for me to get the top-of-the-line model with the added premium $$$ would be fec bracketing and the possible external power supply for faster reload times on bounce flashes. The former selling argument for the 580 was the ability to control slave flashes - but I can do that with my 60D, too.

If you do tele action shots however, the stronger flash might be important - however, both flashes have the "high speed" setting.

 

[smirkypants]

If I were to have just one, it would be the 580EX II. Though I hate on-camera flash, it's a necessary evil for weddings and if you start doing large groups with big bounces you may need it. Maybe not, but maybe so. It's also just generally more flexible and the weight difference really won't be an issue.

 

[samthefish]

I started out with the 7D and two 480IIs. I eventually added a 580II and am very happy with it. Build quality is much better and the dial makes it much easier to change settings quickly. The extra power allows me to use bounce flash in rooms with much higher ceilings. My kids love the strobe function shots for something a little different. If I could have only one flash it would be 580II for sure.

 

[Mendolera]

If money is not a big issue I would get the 580ex II. Ive used both and one of the cool features of the 580 is the strobe which can make for some cool shots against a dark background.

You mentioned weddings; and some churches have higher ceilings can benefit that can benefit from a bounce at 1/2 or 1/4 and faster recycle times.

But by no means is the 430 a slouch and will be worlds different then the on-camera.

 

[neuroanatomist]

First of all I'd like to say that I'm a hobbyist, not a professional photographer, and only recently did I get into flash photography. My current setup is 550D + 24-105L, but I'm getting one of the 5Ds (ii or iii) when the latter is available.

I have a pair of 430EX II's, and they're excellent. The 580EX II offers ~2/3-stop more light, which can make a difference especially if using large modifiers, but I haven't found my 430's to lack sufficient power. The other nice thing about the 430 is the faster recycle time - barring the use of an external battery pack with the 580, they're both running on 4 batteries, and the lower capacity of the 430EX II means it fills the capacitor faster.

However, if you're considering the 5DIII, you might want to either hold off your decision or go with the 580EX II. The reason I say that (although I usually advise just buying what you need, today) is that if the rumor of the 5DIII/X using the 1D X's 61-point AF system (or even the 45-point AF of the previous 1-series) turns out to be true, it's probable that the 430EX II will not provide sufficient AF point coverage with the AF assist lamp (currently, a 580 is needed for full AF assist coverage with a 1-series, the 430 fully covers all AF systems except the 1-series).

 

[tt]

If you're thinking about the 580 - how much more is it to start thinking about the Einstein?

 

[Jamesy]

Although the 7D and 60D can control 430's or 580's, the use of a 580 on camera off camera via a cord can afford greater flexibility in placing the slaves as the 7D and 60D have a limited FOV in controlling slave flashes.

A buddy of mine who owns the 430EX II just bought a Yongnuo 565, which is a 580 EX II knock-off and he is very happy with it and it was only $150. As with all things eBay, YMMV.

 

[Dylan777]

I'm completely happy with 580 II. Great flash for inside the church and high ceiling. I got a used unit on craiglist - $310.

Good luck,
Dylan

 

[Neeneko]

Depending on your budget, a pair of 430s will get you a lot more flexibility then a single 580, and a single 430 will probalby be strong enough for most situations you will encounter (and the ones where it is not, again, a pair will often be better anyway since a single bright source has its own problems).

Then again, I have to admit, this is not my domain since I tend to prefer monolights.

 

[Jamesy]

430's do not support strobscopic/multi mode if that is of interest to you.

 

[Michael_pfh]

I am happy with my 430 II which I prefer over the 580 II due to its smaller dimensions and lower weight. However, it's not weather sealed but assuming that most of your family reunions/ weddings take place either indoors or when it's not raining that aspect should not really matter to you.

 

[Penn Jennings]

First of all I'd like to say that I'm a hobbyist, not a professional photographer, and only recently did I get into flash photography. My current setup is 550D + 24-105L, but I'm getting one of the 5Ds (ii or iii) when the latter is available. I'm mostly shooting general "walkaround" photography with some lean towards press photography (e.g. political meetings and etc.). I also shoot at weddings, family reunions, that kind of thing. So now I need a flash since many of these events tend to happen indoors, and I'm currently deciding between 430 and 580.

From the looks of it I'll have only one flash for the time being (I'm not a studio photographer, more of an action one), and 580 seems to be easier to operate. On the other hand it's much heavier than the 430 and costs more. Do you experience this additional weight problem, and do you feel that the price difference is justified in this case?

I hate to count other peoples money BUT...... If you have L glass and you going to purchase a new 5D why on Gods green earth would you get cheap and try to save $200 on a flash? You will have invested over $4,000 on a body and lens, you will use this flash for many years and you really want to try and save $200 on a flash? A 580 EX II w/battery pack will blow a 430 EX II away, it won't even be close in overall performance. A battery pack will only be another $50 for a "knock off". You will get 2 second recycle time for hundreds of shots, even when you do a full dump. You can shoot up to 3 times faster and have longer range with the 580 vs the 430. You will get 2 or 3 times more shots before replacing the batteries. It might not sound like much but I would miss shots from time to time with the 430. I almost never miss shots with the 580 w/battery pack.

Just my 2 cents.

EDIT: I should note that you are only using the flashes in direct mode, in small rooms and for short duration events, the difference is not that big. If you are using any type light modifier, bouncing, outdoors, large areas or long duration events the difference between a 580 w/battery pack and 430 can be huge.

 

[Marsu42]

Although the 7D and 60D can control 430's or 580's, the use of a 580 on camera off camera via a cord can afford greater flexibility in placing the slaves as the 7D and 60D have a limited FOV in controlling slave flashes.

... at least, this is what the manual says. In reality, I was completely surprised by the fov the 60d does actually achieve - the only time my 430ex2 does not fire is when I accidentally cover the ir sensor with my thumb or it is completely blocked somehow else. The ir control strength at least of the 60D seems to be so powerful that it reflects from surfaces near it and triggers even the flash behind the camera.

 

[Jamesy]

Although the 7D and 60D can control 430's or 580's, the use of a 580 on camera off camera via a cord can afford greater flexibility in placing the slaves as the 7D and 60D have a limited FOV in controlling slave flashes.

... at least, this is what the manual says. In reality, I was completely surprised by the fov the 60d does actually achieve - the only time my 430ex2 does not fire is when I accidentally cover the ir sensor with my thumb or it is completely blocked somehow else. The ir control strength at least of the 60D seems to be so powerful that it reflects from surfaces near it and triggers even the flash behind the camera.

I get great results INSIDE with Canon wireless. Are you shooting inside or out when you get great results?

 

[Marsu42]

I get great results INSIDE with Canon wireless. Are you shooting inside or out when you get great results?

I should have made this more explicit of course - ir is ok when shooting inside or macro shots near and towards the earth and thus there are surfaces that seem to reflect the beam. Even leafs of a tree seem to work for that purpose (usually, I am holding my flash in the left hand next to the camera and use the internal flash for fill). However, I'd trade in the Canon ir system for radio controlled flashes anytime.

 

[samthefish]

I agree that if you're going to do outside shots w/ modifiers the extra punch of the 580ii is worth it. With the 480 I found myself frequently having to move the flash very close to the subjects to fill with sunlit background.

 

[gmrza]

I have a pair of 430EX II's, and they're excellent. The 580EX II offers ~2/3-stop more light, which can make a difference especially if using large modifiers, but I haven't found my 430's to lack sufficient power. The other nice thing about the 430 is the faster recycle time - barring the use of an external battery pack with the 580, they're both running on 4 batteries, and the lower capacity of the 430EX II means it fills the capacitor faster.

Probably the biggest issue I have with the 430EX is the more limited head rotation, which is limiting when doing bounce flash. You cannot bounce a 430 above and behind you in portrait orientation, which to me has become a major issue.

 

[pwp]

Canon speedlights are famously reliable and robust. I'd have absolutely no hesitation going for pre-owned if you are budget sensitive.
Yes, the 430ex is an excellent, surprisingly compact unit and definitely the right choice for a lot of people.

But I'd urge you to choose the 580ex or 580exII for a number of reasons...

It has more power. You may not call on the full output every time you use it, but it's extra grunt will deliver at times when you're bouncing, which you should do when ever possible. And there's gmrza's observation that the 430EX has more limited head rotation. Irritating.
The Yongnuo YN565 someone mentioned as a cheap alternative also loses Master mode, high speed sync as well as the ability to rotate the flash head 180 degrees in both directions. Dealbreaker.

If you use fill flash in high-noon conditions, you'll often need every atom of output you can lay your hands on. HSS chews through a lot more power than standard flash. 580 wins, especially with external power.

The 580 has the not to be overlooked option of adding an external power source. You'll need this if you like shooting fast or can't tolerate the long recycle times when doing full-power dumps when bouncing, using modifiers such as Gary Fong attachments, umbrellas, softboxes etc, or in full-sun fill flash situations.

For external power, the options begin with aftermarket knockoffs of the Canon battery pack which takes 8 AA cells; readily available on eBay. The knock-offs are almost certain to disappoint. At the other end of the scale is the unbelievably durable, justifiably expensive Quantum Turbo series of batteries. This is what I have used for years.

Link to flash output comparo: http://speedlights.net/speedlights-power-index/

As a great mentor of mine once told me, why not travel first class? Go with the 580. Use L glass. Shine your shoes. Give flowers.

Paul Wright

 

[briansquibb]

I have a pair of 430EX II's, and they're excellent. The 580EX II offers ~2/3-stop more light, which can make a difference especially if using large modifiers, but I haven't found my 430's to lack sufficient power. The other nice thing about the 430 is the faster recycle time - barring the use of an external battery pack with the 580, they're both running on 4 batteries, and the lower capacity of the 430EX II means it fills the capacitor faster.

In a same exposure comparison you will find that the 430 EXII at max will take at least as long to recycle as the 580EXII due to less % power being used by the 580EXII