Is ARRI Canon's Biggest Obstacle in Professional Cinema?

Canon Rumors Guy

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Jul 20, 2010
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Was there any doubt? :)</p>
<p><a href="https://www.facebook.com/setlife.magazine" target="_blank">Setlife Magazine</a> has posted a couple of graphics showing the technical specifications of cameras and lenses used in the making of the cinematography & best picture nominees.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.eoshd.com/content/11914/red-cameras-absent-oscar-cinematography-best-picture-nominees" target="_blank">EOSHD</a> points out a very interesting observation. There isn’t a single RED camera on the list. It’s almost a clean sweep by ARRI.</p>
<p>Although, Canon should be happy with the C300′s and C500′s that have shown up in a few films. I think it’s good news for Canon since Cinema EOS is still pretty infant, and as EOSHD points out, they’re under-specced compared to their competition.</p>
<p>Something to build on for Canon.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/oscars-2014-cinematography.jpg"><img class="alignnone size-medium wp-image-15568" alt="oscars-2014-cinematography" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/oscars-2014-cinematography-575x283.jpg" width="575" height="283" />

</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/1545569_1435538563346548_805595201_n.jpg"><img class="alignnone size-medium wp-image-15569" alt="1545569_1435538563346548_805595201_n" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/1545569_1435538563346548_805595201_n-575x512.jpg" width="575" height="512" /></a></p>
<p><strong><a href="https://www.facebook.com/setlife.magazine" target="_blank">SetLife Magazine on Facebook</a> | <a href="http://www.eoshd.com/content/11914/red-cameras-absent-oscar-cinematography-best-picture-nominees" target="_blank">Read Full EOSHD Article</a></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,237
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Canada
A C500, a couple of C300's....

HEY!!!! A GoPro made the list!!!!

But no iPhones....

I guess there is still some form of justice left in the world :)
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
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Zero to three mentions in no time at all, I'd be pretty happy if I was responsible for the way the Canon Cinema line is going so far.

Mind you they are spending a fortune pushing it.
 
Jan 20, 2014
1
0
considering Hobbit, Iron Man 3, Transformers, Gone Girl, Pacific Rim and the recent release of Dragon, I'd say Red is firmly in there, just not at the oscars. Canon is not used as primary camera on any major film.

It will be interesting to see how 4tvs change peoples mind set to shooting with Alexa or will we see a switch this year.
 

LetTheRightLensIn

EOS 5D SR
Apr 19, 2011
4,761
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Instead of chasing ARRI maybe they could've charged forward with the little guy market they had created as best they could instead of purposely crippling the abilities and usability features of all their DSLR camaeras. They could've had that dominated beyond dominated, but instead as soon as they realize they had something, they tried to cripple it, move stuff up in price and play market segment games and as of now, at least, are just another high-priced also ran.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
8,091
1,417
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LetTheRightLensIn said:
Instead of chasing ARRI maybe they could've charged forward with the little guy market they had created as best they could instead of purposely crippling the abilities and usability features of all their DSLR camaeras. They could've had that dominated beyond dominated, but instead as soon as they realize they had something, they tried to cripple it, move stuff up in price and play market segment games and as of now, at least, are just another high-priced also ran.
No, if that was their plan Magic Lantern would be buried under a sea of cease and desist notices.
 

jrista

EOL
Dec 3, 2011
5,341
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jonrista.com
lonelywhitelights said:
ARRI is not Canon's biggest obstacle. CANON is Canon's biggest obstacle. There is still a huge demand for film and Canon don't make any film cameras. it's that simple.
The future isn't film, though...and digital is rapidly gaining ground on film. Canon would have to shift resources from digital cinema to film in order to build up a product line and gain a presence...in a market that will decline in the long term. Not really a wise move. I think Canon has it right, building up a presence in digital cinema.
 

Ellen Schmidtee

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 10, 2012
439
1
Risking another Wintel-vs-DEC-HP-Sun-etc comparison - getting into movie makers' minds & hearts (read: familiar with and appreciative of the product) before they have money to spend is a great way to make them prefer it when they do have it.

Canon would still need to develop properly spec-ed cameras & lenses for the right price, of course.
 

Sella174

So there!
Mar 19, 2013
696
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Suid-Afrika
LetTheRightLensIn said:
Instead of chasing ARRI maybe they could've charged forward with the little guy market they had created as best they could instead of purposely crippling the abilities and usability features of all their DSLR camaeras. They could've had that dominated beyond dominated, but instead as soon as they realize they had something, they tried to cripple it, move stuff up in price and play market segment games and as of now, at least, are just another high-priced also ran.
I agree. There are better ways to differentiate between models in a tiered marketing scheme, primarily based on physical aspects. For example, the xxxD range is not weather-sealed, but the xxD and xD is; or the xxxD range has one SD slot, whereas the xD range has dual CF slots; or the number and accuracy of the focus points; and so on. But deliberately crippling abilities through firmware ... in my opinion MagicLantern should never exist.

privatebydesign said:
No, if that was their plan Magic Lantern would be buried under a sea of cease and desist notices.
Modifying something you own is not illegal.


Back to the topic ... This clearly shows that all these movie features in DSLR's are only an interim tool for most serious movie-makers, i.e. a cheaper option for students. As soon as they graduate and start making real movies, they use real movie cameras.
 

Ellen Schmidtee

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 10, 2012
439
1
Sella174 said:
Back to the topic ... This clearly shows that all these movie features in DSLR's are only an interim tool for most serious movie-makers, i.e. a cheaper option for students. As soon as they graduate and start making real movies, they use real movie cameras.
And it would be to Canon's benefit if those real movie cameras are Canon's as well - people prefer to work with familiar brands.
 

Sella174

So there!
Mar 19, 2013
696
0
Suid-Afrika
Ellen Schmidtee said:
And it would be to Canon's benefit if those real movie cameras are Canon's as well - people prefer to work with familiar brands.
True, which is why Canon should stop trying to make DSLR's into movie cameras and just make a cheaper, true video camera that accepts EF lenses ... something like a C300 lite. Students can then buy these and will prefer using the "professional" versions once working for Universal Studios.
 

Ellen Schmidtee

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 10, 2012
439
1
Sella174 said:
Ellen Schmidtee said:
And it would be to Canon's benefit if those real movie cameras are Canon's as well - people prefer to work with familiar brands.
True, which is why Canon should stop trying to make DSLR's into movie cameras and just make a cheaper, true video camera that accepts EF lenses ... something like a C300 lite. Students can then buy these and will prefer using the "professional" versions once working for Universal Studios.
On the other hand, a friend of mine shoots video with 5Dmk2s & mk3s, because that's what his stills-shooting friends have. Along the way he gets to know lenses that impress him, e.g. Sigma 12-24mm, which he liked for how wide it was, and the TS-E 24mm mk2, which he liked for it's colors. He now plans on buying a 5Dmk2 or mk3.
 
Jul 20, 2013
6
0
Sella174 said:
privatebydesign said:
No, if that was their plan Magic Lantern would be buried under a sea of cease and desist notices.
Modifying something you own is not illegal.
Doesn't matter if it's legal or not. Canon has enough money to troll them into the ground using legal fees at the courthouse.
 

MLfan3

EOS 80D
May 28, 2013
117
0
thanks for this post, it is amazing but I think it is all about politics and budget reason.
who will use a lowly Canon or sony when they can afford Alexa?

but why is there no Red in the list?
any way, great info, thanks.
 

Sella174

So there!
Mar 19, 2013
696
0
Suid-Afrika
Fuzzy Caveman said:
Sella174 said:
privatebydesign said:
No, if that was their plan Magic Lantern would be buried under a sea of cease and desist notices.
Modifying something you own is not illegal.
Doesn't matter if it's legal or not. Canon has enough money to troll them into the ground using legal fees at the courthouse.
Funny legal system you have there.

In comparison, over here in South Africa, the courts have the sanction to award extreme compensation to the defendant on the grounds of malicious action on the part of the applicant. So, as my father always says: "Sue me, I can use the money."
 

Ellen Schmidtee

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 10, 2012
439
1
dilbert said:
What will it take for Canon to have a chance of overcoming ARRI?

Well first they'll need to deliver a sensor that has more than 14 stops of DR or least that of the D800.
Trying not to open a can of worms...

As someone noted in the video, Canon could be targeting a different market.

E.g. DPAF and STM shows Canon aims for a lower end market, e.g. parents making videos of toddlers, where people will not follow focus manually. This is not to say I think those technologies work perfectly, only that it tells about a market Canon aims for.

On the other hand, Canon has released cinema cameras with PL mount, and I think Canon would need a better sensor in that market.

So far it seems (at least to me) Canon has made a good compromise, but if it doesn't release sensors with better IQ in the near future, my guess is sales will suffer.
 

Niki

EOS 80D
May 30, 2013
136
0
Lengai said:
considering Hobbit, Iron Man 3, Transformers, Gone Girl, Pacific Rim and the recent release of Dragon, I'd say Red is firmly in there, just not at the oscars. Canon is not used as primary camera on any major film.

It will be interesting to see how 4tvs change peoples mind set to shooting with Alexa or will we see a switch this year.
alexa over red
kodak 35mm overall
 

Niki

EOS 80D
May 30, 2013
136
0
lonelywhitelights said:
ARRI is not Canon's biggest obstacle. CANON is Canon's biggest obstacle. There is still a huge demand for film and Canon don't make any film cameras. it's that simple.
yeap….!
 

Niki

EOS 80D
May 30, 2013
136
0
jrista said:
lonelywhitelights said:
ARRI is not Canon's biggest obstacle. CANON is Canon's biggest obstacle. There is still a huge demand for film and Canon don't make any film cameras. it's that simple.
The future isn't film, though...and digital is rapidly gaining ground on film. Canon would have to shift resources from digital cinema to film in order to build up a product line and gain a presence...in a market that will decline in the long term. Not really a wise move. I think Canon has it right, building up a presence in digital cinema.
in between all the digital cameras they were to release one FILM CAMERA…WHAT A SURPRISE AND WHAT SALES!!