Travel photos and help 5Dc, 40D or a rebel for beginer?

[Jura]

Much to my surprise my little brother just expressed an interest in learning photography! He has a go-pro 3 black edition which he uses to make surfing videos but I suspect the root of this new found interest is his new girlfriend who shoots a bit of film. Keen to encourage this new found enthusiasm I want to buy him a DSLR set up for his birthday and would appreciate some advise from the experts on this forum as I've not shot with some of the cameras I'm considering.
A couple of points to keep in mind:
1) I'm not rolling in cash but my girlfriend and I can probably stretch to round 400 quid, anything over that and he'll have to chip in
2) We're about to go travelling through Central America together for 6 weeks so whatever gear he is going to get is going to take a bit of a kicking (also 1 or two lenses only)
Our trip is why I'm going to get him a DSLR rather than a film camera and a fridge full of film.

so far I was considering
1)a 5D classic: not a camera I've used but one I've heard a lot of good things about. probably with a 28-135 lens of some type (will recommend he also picks up a nifty 50 or a shorty 40)
Advantage: image quality, rugged
Disadvantage: body cost, lack of good cheep wide zoom options, something about some 5d's having a wonky shutter?

2) a 40D and a 17-85mm I used to have a 40D and loved it before it got stolen in Peru. Not used the 17-85 but heard good things (again will recommend he also picks up a nifty 50 or a shorty 40)
Advantage: dual control wheels, magnesium alloy body
Disadvantage: no cheep normal prime

3) A rebel of some type: Not familiar with the rebel line at all. Everything since 500D shoots video?
Lenses: again tempted to go with the 17-85 as I cant afford the good EF-S lens zoom with F2.8 (17-55?)
Advantage: Video, Cheapest body option, smallest and lightest
Disadvantage: might not survive the trip, Single control wheel (A hindrance for learning?)

4)? is there something I've overlooked?

So what would you do in my situation. Is there a gem of a lens or a combo that I've overlooked?

All help greatly appreciated!

Here's some travel photos to counter the gear and request heavy nature of the thread

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28976399@N06/8130166533#
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28976399@N06/8130190696#
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28976399@N06/6837786574#

Ps. Is it possible to have photos hosted on Fickr appear within the post?

 

[RobertG.]

Hi,
I would get a 550D or 600D instead of the really old 40D or 5d you mentioned. Both newer APS-C models have a proper live view and video capabilities. The EF-S 17-85 is not the best lens available but will do the job, especially when money is a concern. If some money is left, buy him a proper pol filter for the lens.

 

[RLPhoto]

+1 For 5Dc. If you just want good images with minimal fluffy features. They're a bargain right now.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=10707.msg191774#msg191774

 

[Jim Saunders]

I had a 40D and a 17-85; Shoot RAW when you get there, enjoy what Lightroom can do with them when you get back. Try to keep it stopped down some though, it isn't a world-beater wide open. I'd suggest it over the Rebels for the multi-controller. If you really need video then they're worth a look.

Jim

 

[fvaron]

Look for a T3i kit to start with. It's $449 on the Canon website. And it comes in colors which might appeal to his coolness!

 

[Hillsilly]

When I started getting into digital, I was in a similar position and was about to head off on a two month trip. I went with a 30D for the better AF, FPS, weather sealing and build quality. But what would I do now? A very, very tough decision. I think I'd be tempted by a new rebel. Much higher MP, takes video, better LCD, smaller, lighter, higher ISOs. If the funds allow, I'd look at a 650D or new 700D.

 

[Andy_Hodapp]

As someone who started out with a 500D, I would totally recommend it. Quality is good enough that I was able to start selling my own prints with it. 5Dc was a camera I was looking to get as an upgrade to my 500D, but when the 5d MKII went to $1500 new, I had to go for it. I've played with a 5Dc and while it has great quality, it is definitely the most difficult camera to use of the three. Video isn't great on the 500D but with magic lantern it is much better, good enough for my videography class. I wouldn't worry about durability of the camera. I used mine professionally for 2 years without any fault.

Here are some shots I got with the camera

 

[EOBeav]

I'm going to +1 the Rebel on this one. The sensors on the newest ones are pretty darn good, and a great choice for somebody just starting out.

 

[rs]

This is a difficult balancing act between ergonomics and the latest tech. I usually would opt for a camera with a top LCD and rear dial, but for taking to places where a big camera could attract more unwanted attention, a smaller body has advantages. Also, a beginner would more likely appreciate the lack of weight of a rebel over lugging around a magnesium bodied camera for a new hobby they're not too sure about.

It's not buying into the great Canon EOS system, but what about a second hand Fuji X100? To the untrained eye it just looks like an old film camera, and its small, light, cheap, and great quality.

 

[Jura]

Thanks for the advice everyone.
seems like a relatively even split with a slight lean towards something form the rebel line (although a newer rebel is out of the price range so it will be something 500D era-ish). I guess that reflects the fact that its a hard decision to take with little to chose between the group but with specific bodies excelling in certain areas.

I like the idea of EOS so I can hand down my old kit should he catch the photography bug but will add the x100 to my musings as I think its a style of camera that he would like to use. It's bit expensive though...

The image quality produced by all the options is going to be good enough. I learnt on a 10D way back and still sell prints taken back then and sell more from shots taken with my beloved 40D and range of decidedly average sigma zooms than I do with my 5D MK2 and L glass. From my perspective money is better spent on getting to stunning locations than it is on upgrading perfectly serviceable equipment (wouldn't turn down a 1Dx and a 200-400 1.4x though)

One thing that having a rummage through the second hand market has shown me is how cheap it is now to pick up a camera that was the bees knees not long ago and is still a powerful image making tool today. Tempted to pick up a 5dc for myself and rig it up as a remote camera trap for wildlife. Similarly tempted by a 40D for its FPS and to use it as an optically perfect teleconverter for distant wildlife. How long before a 7D can be picked up for less than 500 pounds? If only lenses depreciated in this way huh!

Please feel free to keep the advice coming. its always nice to hear others opinions and see their photos

 

[mb66energy]

Just two additional decision factors:

(1) Do you have good chances to recharge your cameras batteries?
Yes: Model doesn't matter
No: 40D or 5Dc preferred above Rebel but only if you buy a NEW Canon Li ion battery for 2nd hand cams

(2) Do you have a chance to test some 2nd hand cams before your trip?
Yes: 40D, 5Dc possible
No: Better buy a new Rebel, but do not omit some checks to replace it eventually before the trip

My choice (= influenced by my photographic ideas) might result in the following sets:
(a) 40D + EF-S 2.8 60mm + EF 2.8 24mm (all 2nd hand) (250 + 250 + 150 EUR),
(b) 600D + EF 2.8 40mm + strong closeup lens (450 + 150 EUR + 50 EUR) or
(c) 40D + EF 2.8 40mm + strong closeup lens +new original battery (250 + 150 EUR + 50 EUR + 90 EUR) or
(d) 40D + EF-S 2.8 60mm (new) + new original battery (250 + 350 EUR + 90 EUR).

Set (a) has a strong potential (38mm + 100mm Macro in 35mm equiv) but is heavy and you rely on the chance to get these things in technically mint condition for low prices.
Set (b) lacks the use of different focal lengths and pure macro but avoids changing lenses, is light and compact and I really like the IQ, photographic flexibility and compactness of my 40mm lens. With a close up lens it should bee good for closeup photography.
EDIT: Addet set (c) because this is my HQ compact camera and set (d) which I would choose just if just ONE camera and ONE lens for a trip is "allowed" - I personally like the 40D much more for photography than the 600D but this may be caused by habit ...

My 2ct - Michael

 

[paul13walnut5]

Video seems important here.

So, forget 5dc, 40d etc.
Also forget 500d. No mic input and unhacked the video mode is a bodge (no manual exposure, looney 20fps in hi-def)

New options are:

Eos m, or grey 600d.

Used options are:
550d. I had one for video. Great wee camera. Will do a good job, will probably need to be a used buy now, the basic kit lens, the 18-55is will deliver pretty good images. If he gets serious he will be able to upgrade in the future.

600d, same as above except manual mic level, handy flip out screen and off canera wireless flash with compatable gun. Available new from digital rev in Kiss x5 guise for £360 with 18-55 new. Budget £3 for charger adaptor, and look at their value bundles for cheap add ons like fast sd card.

I bought an m from them. No hassles.

M is fine as a supplement to sn SLR, as much as I love mine, I wouldn't want one as my only EOS.

 

[BrandonKing96]

If it's solely for photography, I'd grab a 5Dc and a prime (a 40mm f/2.8, 28 f/1.8, or for a wider lens, the 20 f/2.8).
If he wants video on a DSLR, I'd suggest just getting a 550D so there's more to spend on the lenses.

 

[rs]

Tempted to pick up a 5dc for myself and rig it up as a remote camera trap for wildlife. Similarly tempted by a 40D for its FPS and to use it as an optically perfect teleconverter for distant wildlife. How long before a 7D can be picked up for less than 500 pounds? If only lenses depreciated in this way huh!

I have a 5D mk II and a 40D, and I never find myself picking up the 40D when I want more reach. The 5D2 when cropped down to an APS-C field of view lands 8.2MP across the frame - which is just over 90% of the horizontal and vertical resolution of the 40D. I find that the lower noise and weaker AA filter compensate enough to make the cropped 5D2 images better than what comes out of the 40D. And I get better results again if instead of cropping I use a 1.4x TC between the 5D2 and 70-200 II.

If I owned a 70D instead of the 40D, I'd probably be giving a different story about using a crop camera as an alternative to a TC. A used 7D when the price drops could be a good call as you also make much bigger gains in AF and FPS over the 40D.

As my widest EF lens only zooms out to 24mm and I own an EF-S 10-22, my 40D gets used primarily for wide shots.

I retrospect, when it comes to passing lenses down to your brother (and no doubt sharing the use of everything you'll carry on the trip), having the same sensor size between the two of you does make a lot of sense. A 5Dc, new battery and a clean up of the sensor could be good. That is only if video is not important. If it is, follow Paul13's excellent advice.

 

[renlok]

All three cameras are very capable travel cameras.

I think the 40d is a great place to start. It feels alot more solid in your hands than the rebels and it's abit bigger, which for me, it feels like I can get a better grip on it.

 

[Hannes]

WEX have a 40D with a few small scratches for £169 although I would probably have suggested a rebel body before a xxD body for travelling.