7D2 vs. 5D3 for indoor sports

[thepancakeman]

Hey all,

Short version: the title pretty much sums it up.

Long version:
Out of the blue I've just scored a press pass/official photographer deal for the upcoming USA Weightlifting Youth National Championships. I'm concerned that my trusty 7D isn't quite going to be up to the task. So what I'm trying to decide is whether a 5D3 or a 7D2 is the way to go.

My wife is due for an upgrade and shoots weddings, which would favor the 5D3, but I shoot sports almost exclusively which favors the 7D2 (and yes, we share equipment), so that's a wash. The lighting for the event is likely going to be poor and with weightlifting being an extremely quick movement I will need all the shutter speed I can get, so I need good high ISO. However, in the same vein, being a quick movement I could certainly make use of the FPS.

So the question is, how much high ISO difference between the two, and for this event (and indoor sports in general) do which do you favor and why? And if you're feeling talkative, throw some lens thoughts in there as well, as I'm not sure where the press platform is relative to the lifting platform and am a little light on wider lenses. And if after that you still feeling like sharing, I could use a new tripod for this event, but since I almost never use one I don't want to throw a lot of funds at it.

Thanks!

Current lens selection is 70-200L IS, the 85 1.8, 24-105 4.0L, the nifty 50, and a Tamron 17-55 for crop bodies.

 

[FEBS]

Seen the requirements for you both I would go for the 5Diii. To be honnest, even for indoor sports I will take my 5D3 or there must be really good light. Outdoor during the dat, yes I would take the 7d2.

Once you go for full frame, it's hard to take a crop again. The only avantage the 7d2 has above the 5d3 is the higher fps, all the rest the 5d3 performance better. But hey, that's my opinion.

 

[monkey44]

I shoot with both cameras indoors and outdoors, depending on the situation / light / distance etc

I shoot indoor sports more with 5DM3 ...

I shoot outdoor sports more with the 7D2 ...

If your wife is buying / using a 5DM3 and you share, then I'd buy the 7D2 to accompany it, rather than duplicate.
The 7D2 is a very fine sports camera -- you might think '7D2 indoors with the right lens' instead of another 5DM3 camera in this instance.

IF you are contemplating only one camera, I'd go with the 7D2 if sports is primary goal. I had my 5DM3 before I bought the 7D2, and still bought it, if that tells you anything. But, I shoot a lot of outdoors sports and wildlife.
Hope this helps ... B

 

[Lt Colonel]

I have both and they are both very good at what they do and will do sports well. However, if you mean that you "share" a single camera with your wife and she shoots weddings, I'd go for the 5DM3. It will do both and be a better fit for weddings than the 7D2. Just my opinion.

 

[rpt]

I have both too. The 5D3 is the better one for the job. Besides you will be able to use it for weddings. If it was a high speed sport I'd say take the 7D2 but for wrestling, 6 fps is plenty.

As for lenses, id prefer faster lenses and with IS. You must do a reco of the place to see where you will sit/stand and the amount and quality of light. Also maybe take a monopod too.

 

[tron]

5D3 by all means. Much better ISO performance and ... working all the time.

 

[Don Haines]

go wide.... 5D3

go long.... 7D2

 

[Rahul]

I would suggest you keep the 7D and get a 5D3. Since your wife shoots weddings (and that's where the major dough for a photographer usually is), a 5D3 will work wonders. In my opinion, the 5D3 is probably the best camera for wedding photography out there.

For indoor sports such as a weightlifting event, you are unlikely to be focal length limited so your 70-200 should work fine. The high ISO performance of the 5D3 should cover sufficiently for any inadequate lighting.

That being said, on a FF camera the focal length of 24mm should be wide enough for the stage.

 

[IgotGASbadDude]

1DX will solve all your issues : ;D

 

[kaihp]

Have you considered renting instead of buying? If it's a one-time event, this might be the best solution.

 

[FTb-n]

I would suggest you keep the 7D and get a 5D3. Since your wife shoots weddings (and that's where the major dough for a photographer usually is), a 5D3 will work wonders. In my opinion, the 5D3 is probably the best camera for wedding photography out there.

For indoor sports such as a weightlifting event, you are unlikely to be focal length limited so your 70-200 should work fine. The high ISO performance of the 5D3 should cover sufficiently for any inadequate lighting.

That being said, on a FF camera the focal length of 24mm should be wide enough for the stage.

+1

The 5D3 is an underrated sports body and great when FPS isn't critical. For indoor use, I value the ISO advantage of the 5D3 over the FPS and potential bump in focus tracking of the 7D2. I assume your 70-200L is the 2.8, it's a great combination with the 5D3 for indoor action -- both sports and candids.

1DX will solve all your issues : ;D

+1

I have run into occasional issues with the 5D3 losing focus on a figure skater during jumps. This can be demanding on the AF system because the subject is moving horizontally, changing direction vertically, and rotating while doing so. Fine tuning the AF tracking helped a lot. But, this spring I added a 1Dx to my bag and solved the problem.

In my experience, the added processing power and stronger battery of the 1Dx helps the focus tracking. The 12 FPS is a benefit for these jumps, but I try not to let it become an alternative to timing that first shot for most other action. Spray and Pray means too many images to cull. For what it's worth, the 8 FPS of the 7D wasn't fast enough to catch a skater during the apex of a rotational jump, but 12 FPS most often gives me one good mid-air image. I wasn't confident that 10 FPS of the 7D2 would be enough. Still, the 7D2 has the extra processing horsepower that may give better tracking results over the 5D3 in some situations.

Two other benefits of the 1Dx is more accurate auto exposure more often and an extra stop of clean high ISO over the 5D3. I most often shoot in full manual and never fully trusted auto ISO or Av on the 5D3. But, with the 1Dx in manual, auto ISO tends to be more consistent.

Ok, there's another advantage. The ergonomics of the buttons and control system is top notch. It's very easy to preset exposure or focus modes to the the 3 custom modes and cycle through them while panning with a subject. (Did I mention exposure compensation in manual? Wish the 5D3 had this.)

I've shot tens of thousands of action images with the 5D3/70-200 and still recommend it. I did consider the 7D2 for those times when I push the 5D3 to it's limits, but the loss of high ISO image quality held me back. For indoor action, the only step up from the 5D3 that made any sense to me was the 1Dx.

 

[East Wind Photography]

Hey all,

Short version: the title pretty much sums it up.

Long version:
Out of the blue I've just scored a press pass/official photographer deal for the upcoming USA Weightlifting Youth National Championships. I'm concerned that my trusty 7D isn't quite going to be up to the task. So what I'm trying to decide is whether a 5D3 or a 7D2 is the way to go.

My wife is due for an upgrade and shoots weddings, which would favor the 5D3, but I shoot sports almost exclusively which favors the 7D2 (and yes, we share equipment), so that's a wash. The lighting for the event is likely going to be poor and with weightlifting being an extremely quick movement I will need all the shutter speed I can get, so I need good high ISO. However, in the same vein, being a quick movement I could certainly make use of the FPS.

So the question is, how much high ISO difference between the two, and for this event (and indoor sports in general) do which do you favor and why? And if you're feeling talkative, throw some lens thoughts in there as well, as I'm not sure where the press platform is relative to the lifting platform and am a little light on wider lenses. And if after that you still feeling like sharing, I could use a new tripod for this event, but since I almost never use one I don't want to throw a lot of funds at it.

Thanks!

Current lens selection is 70-200L IS, the 85 1.8, 24-105 4.0L, the nifty 50, and a Tamron 17-55 for crop bodies.

I shot indoor sports with a 5d3 for quite a while and did not realize the shots I was missing until ingot the 7d2. The 5d3 has about a 1 stop advantage over the 7d2 when it comes to noise. However let's face it. Is anyone really going to care about that 1 stop of noise for weight lifting shots?

I also contend that with the 7d2 you may be able to fill the frame easier with your lens set up thereby cropping less so in the end the noise might be a wash.

 

[Big_Ant_TV_Media]

Seen the requirements for you both I would go for the 5Diii. To be honnest, even for indoor sports I will take my 5D3 or there must be really good light. Outdoor during the dat, yes I would take the 7d2.

Once you go for full frame, it's hard to take a crop again. The only avantage the 7d2 has above the 5d3 is the higher fps, all the rest the 5d3 performance better. But hey, that's my opinion.

ya very wrong
guess u forget the 7D2 focus is a lil better then the 5D3 and and the 1.6 crop is good as well and the ISO for both cameras are good yess the 5D3 low light wise is better but u dont need fps with indoor weightlifting
GIVE THE GUY LEGIT AND REAL INFO B4 U TOTALLY PUT DOWN A NEW FASTER CAMERA

 

[Deleted member 7828]

I have run into occasional issues with the 5D3 losing focus on a figure skater during jumps. This can be demanding on the AF system because the subject is moving horizontally, changing direction vertically, and rotating while doing so. Fine tuning the AF tracking helped a lot. But, this spring I added a 1Dx to my bag and solved the problem.

I have had similar issues, first with the 60D and then the 7D. Also, when the skater is coming toward the camera around a corner, that results in several missed shots on many occasions. Have yet to put the 7D2 to the test in that environment though, hopefully that chance comes in due time. J/C, how do you have your camera AF set up to deal with the situation?

________
This is one of (just) two situations where I prefer crop over FF (the other being bird/animal photography where one is reach-limited). The 7D/70-200 has excellent coverage of both ends of a skating rink when near the center. I'll take the hit on sharpness/high ISO performance for more pixels on my subject/greater (additional) cropping power in post, but that's just me.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I'd expect that either choice is a winning situation. For wrestling, I would not bother with anything but one shot, in fact, I use it for virtually everything.

The additional sensitivity of the 5D MK III means you can use a fairly fast shutter speed and crank up the ISO, assuming you have the right lens and don't have to crop.

 

[Hardwire]

I shoot with an events company and we have a fleet of 7d1/2, 5d3's and a few 1dx's and it goes a little something like this:

Outside events 7d2/1dx/5d3 (but I regularly shoot sprinting, hurdles, throwing events etc etc with the 5d3 and a 70-200 or 100-400)
Indoors its simple...5d3 every day of the week and the 1dx as a not even close second. The 5d3 in higher iso shots seems to be cleaner then the 1dx and forget the 7d2 at times when the lighting is "average to poor"

This is just an indication of how we shoot (national franchise of event photography) but YMMV of course.

 

[R1-7D]

I shoot with an events company and we have a fleet of 7d1/2, 5d3's and a few 1dx's and it goes a little something like this:

Outside events 7d2/1dx/5d3 (but I regularly shoot sprinting, hurdles, throwing events etc etc with the 5d3 and a 70-200 or 100-400)
Indoors its simple...5d3 every day of the week and the 1dx as a not even close second. The 5d3 in higher iso shots seems to be cleaner then the 1dx and forget the 7d2 at times when the lighting is "average to poor"

You need to look at those images again. The 5D3 pales in comparison to high ISO shots from the 1DX.

 

[yorgasor]

It also depends on the quality of lighting. I've shot a lot of indoor sports where the florescent lights had the most horrible flicker. Post processing with my 5D3 was a pain in the neck, as every single shot had a different exposure and color temperature (and often it was split halfway through the exposure!). With the 7D2, you can turn on flicker detection where it shoots only at the peak of the light. This meant I could use a lower ISO and greatly simplified post-processing.

Locations where the light was higher quality, it's not so much of an issue, but gymnasiums that I've been to have been the biggest culprits. If I were shooting in a gym like that, I'd leave my 5D3 and Nikon D3s alone, and shoot only 7D2.

 

[FEBS]

You need to look at those images again. The 5D3 pales in comparison to high ISO shots from the 1DX.

+1

I have all the cameras Hardwire mentioned, but the 1Dx is for sure the best in high iso, followed by the 5D3

 

[FTb-n]

The 5D3 and the 1Dx are pretty even in ISO until you get to 8,000. This is where the ISO range of the 1Dx really shines.

I'd still go for the 5D3 over the 7D2 for indoor sports and, yes, ISO can make the difference in a wrestling match. It all depends on the venue, the lighting, and the color of the mats. Hopefully, a championship match would be at a well lit gym. Still, I've shot wrestling in some pretty dimly lit gyms which often have mats that are darker in color and far less reflective than the average basketball gym floor. Never underestimate the reflective nature of the floor and how it bounces ceiling light back onto players faces -- or how it may absorb the light as with darker wrestling mats.

High ISO allows for faster shutter speeds which helps with figure skating and smaller apertures which can help in wrestling where greater DOF can be desirable.

I can't compare the 5D3 directly with the 7D2 since I don't have the latter. But, I do have the 60D, 7D, and the 1Dx. While the 7D2 is the new King Of Crop, I still expect the 1Dx to retain its King Of The DSLR title. The 1Dx shines in low light and fast erratic action and has enabled me to get shots that I couldn't get with the 5D3. Still the 5D3 holds its own weight in shooting action. Back to shooting figure skating jumps, the 5D3 tracks about 80% of the time while the 1Dx covers it 95% of the time. I'm a big proponent of timing the shot rather than relying on burst mode, but in this case, 12 FPS gives me the mid-air shot that can't reliable get with the 5D3.

For other skating action, the 5D3 does a great job tracking skaters, even when heading toward me. I shoot most often from the hockey players box and find the 70-200 on FF to be the perfect range to cover the rink and get skaters close to me. For what it's worth, the 7D did a good job tracking this as well. The 60D had more trouble.

One trick that I learned is to let up on the focus then re-focus when the subject changes direction. AI Servo is a predictive process that records the subject's movement to predict where it will be when the shutter is tripped. Part of this is to aid with burst mode so the camera can compensate for movement while the mirror is up. When the subject changes direction, it can take a fraction of a second for the camera to adjust to the change. Sometimes it's better to force the camera to start over by letting up on the focus button then re-start it. This also means that it is often best to pre-focus about a second before firing the first shot. For many reasons, in sports it helps to anticipate the shot.

There's another reason that I prefer the 5D3. Full frame bodies record sharper images than crop. Check out Lens Image Quality tool at TheDigitalPicture.com to compare a full frame body with a crop body on the same lens. (However, the tool isn't working as I write this -- I've never seen it fail like this.) In my experience, this advantage offsets the "extra reach" advantage of crop bodies. When I first got the 5D3, I was concerned about losing the extra reach at the ice rink and did many tests comparing the 7D against cropped images of the 5D3 with the same 70-200 f2.8L II lens. In all cases, the cropped 5D3 image was as sharp or sharper than the full 7D image. When ISO went up, the full frame image got sharper.

Regarding 5D3 AF settings for skating, I've played with Case 2, 5, and 6. All have worked well, but to improve the focus tracking for jumps, I settled with Case 6 and set Tracking Sensitivity at -1, Accel/decel Tracking at 1, and AF Point Auto Switching at 2. In addition, I set both AI Servo 1st and 2nd Image Priority biased to Focus. The 1Dx is set similarly. There are times with both cameras when the shutter won't fire because it can't lock on. This most often happens in poor light, such as an ice show. But, it's not frequent. If the image isn't sharp, I don't want it. It is helpful when the shutter doesn't fire because I know that I missed the shot. This gives me another chance to get a similar one. If it fired, I won't know that it's out of focus until I see it on the computer and it's too late to try again.