Sony A7R3 manual drops -- here comes the fine print

[ahsanford]

Okay, here's the manual for the A7R3:
http://www.sony-asia.com/electronics/support/res/manuals/4728/2b3f52f7b398c5f1ca1e1112d1d449ee/47287791M.pdf?pr

Re: 14 bit vs. 12 bit RAW, where they stick to their A9 / A99 II terminology of 'compressed', 'uncompressed' here, and 'Hi+' typically equals the fastest continuous fps burst (which is 10 fps in this case but is strangely not listed anywhere in the manual that I can see):

"The shooting speed during continuous shooting becomes slower when [RAW File Type] is set to [Uncompressed]." (page 43) --> so just like the A9 and A99-II, the A7R3 can deliver uncompressed RAW at high speed. The camera may / may not default to compressed 12 bit RAW when you jump to Hi+ shooting speeds, but the manual here would imply you can switch back to fully uncompressed RAW with Hi+ shooting, but you won't get the full 10 fps. (On the A99 II, this was still pretty close to it's max 12 fps from testing that has been published.)

Re: Shenanigans with AF getting locked during high speed shooting:

"When the F-value is greater than F8 in [Continuous Shooting: Hi+], [Continuous Shooting: Hi] or [Continuous Shooting: Mid] mode, the focus is locked to the setting in the first shot." (page 43)

Re: temperature of the camera (not the WB):

"If the same part of your skin touches the camera for a long period of time while using the camera, even if the camera does not feel hot to you, it may cause symptoms of a low-temperature burn such as redness or blistering." (Page 8.)

- A

 

[ahsanford]

And no discussion of that pixel shift / multi-shot feature is anywhere to be found.

Did Sony pre-sell something that didn't make the final firmware?

- A

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Go to the full 650 page help guide for more discussion, including pixel shift.

http://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/1710/v1/en/print.pdf

 

[3kramd5]

I’m not sure I’d call the AF lock thing “shenanigans.” The fact that it will (allegedly) focus at f/11 at all is noteworthy. My 1dx won’t even try.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I’m not sure I’d call the AF lock thing “shenanigans.” The fact that it will (allegedly) focus at f/11 at all is noteworthy. My 1dx won’t even try.

Try liveview. Thats what you are basically getting in a mirrorless camera.

 

[3kramd5]

I’m not sure I’d call the AF lock thing “shenanigans.” The fact that it will (allegedly) focus at f/11 at all is noteworthy. My 1dx won’t even try.

Try liveview. Thats what you are basically getting in a mirrorless camera.

You’re saying it’s limited to CDAF on the A7iii and A9, not PDAF?

 

[ahsanford]

I’m not sure I’d call the AF lock thing “shenanigans.” The fact that it will (allegedly) focus at f/11 at all is noteworthy. My 1dx won’t even try.

What aperture the lens uses to AF vs. capture the shot are different things, aren't they? My 5D3 can take continuous shots at f/11, f/14, etc. with working AF provided the lens is capable of f/5.6 or quicker, correct?

For instance, I'm looking through the front element as I half-shutter for AF on my 5D3 and my 35 f/2 lens set at f/11 is autofocusing (to my eye) wide open. The f/11 closing of the blades doesn't happen until I actually take the shot.

Oh... is this a mirrorless/liveview vs. SLR AF thing I'm missing? I just repeated the exercise on my 5D3 -- but this time in LiveView -- and the half shutter press for AF did indeed close the iris down.

- A

 

[3kramd5]

Perhaps we are interpreting it differently. I read elsewhere that a9 will drive lenses where the *max aperture* is f/11 (e.g. a f/2.8 lens with two 2X teleconverters). My assumption is that they are addressing that capability, but the language in the literature could instead be addressing exposure settings not lens configuration.

If they indeed release the rumored FE 400/2.8, if and these cameras can focus with max aperture f/11, you could have a natively-working 1600mm AF system.

^^ stacking “ifs” is always fun.

 

[Jopa]

Okay, here's the manual for the A7R3:
http://www.sony-asia.com/electronics/support/res/manuals/4728/2b3f52f7b398c5f1ca1e1112d1d449ee/47287791M.pdf?pr

Re: 14 bit vs. 12 bit RAW, where they stick to their A9 / A99 II terminology of 'compressed', 'uncompressed' here, and 'Hi+' typically equals the fastest continuous fps burst (which is 10 fps in this case but is strangely not listed anywhere in the manual that I can see):

"The shooting speed during continuous shooting becomes slower when [RAW File Type] is set to [Uncompressed]." (page 43) --> so just like the A9 and A99-II, the A7R3 can deliver uncompressed RAW at high speed. The camera may / may not default to compressed 12 bit RAW when you jump to Hi+ shooting speeds, but the manual here would imply you can switch back to fully uncompressed RAW with Hi+ shooting, but you won't get the full 10 fps. (On the A99 II, this was still pretty close to it's max 12 fps from testing that has been published.)

Re: Shenanigans with AF getting locked during high speed shooting:

"When the F-value is greater than F8 in [Continuous Shooting: Hi+], [Continuous Shooting: Hi] or [Continuous Shooting: Mid] mode, the focus is locked to the setting in the first shot." (page 43)

Re: temperature of the camera (not the WB):

"If the same part of your skin touches the camera for a long period of time while using the camera, even if the camera does not feel hot to you, it may cause symptoms of a low-temperature burn such as redness or blistering." (Page 8.)

- A

Remember our old conversation - uncompressed doesn't automatically imply it's 14bit. Compressed = small file size with some compression artifacts. Uncompressed = no compression artifacts but you can encode as much information as you want up to 14 bits. You can also shoot compressed 14bit (AF-S mode, mechanical shutter, with compression=on in the settings), that's how it always worked with Sony.

Concerning the camera temperature - that's crazy I think that's probably the reason why they are rushing this poor camera to the market. They want to sell as much as they can while it's cold and people didn't realize it'll overheat during the summer.

 

[Don Haines]

I’m not sure I’d call the AF lock thing “shenanigans.” The fact that it will (allegedly) focus at f/11 at all is noteworthy. My 1dx won’t even try.

What aperture the lens uses to AF vs. capture the shot are different things, aren't they? My 5D3 can take continuous shots at f/11, f/14, etc. with working AF provided the lens is capable of f/5.6 or quicker, correct?

For instance, I'm looking through the front element as I half-shutter for AF on my 5D3 and my 35 f/2 lens set at f/11 is autofocusing (to my eye) wide open. The f/11 closing of the blades doesn't happen until I actually take the shot.

Oh... is this a mirrorless/liveview vs. SLR AF thing I'm missing? I just repeated the exercise on my 5D3 -- but this time in LiveView -- and the half shutter press for AF did indeed close the iris down.

- A

Interesting...... I will have to try this when I get home....

 

[Jopa]

I’m not sure I’d call the AF lock thing “shenanigans.” The fact that it will (allegedly) focus at f/11 at all is noteworthy. My 1dx won’t even try.

Try liveview. Thats what you are basically getting in a mirrorless camera.

You’re saying it’s limited to CDAF on the A7iii and A9, not PDAF?

They both are supposed to switch to CDAF when there is not enough light for OSPDAF.

 

[ahsanford]

Remember our old conversation - uncompressed doesn't automatically imply it's 14bit. Compressed = small file size with some compression artifacts. Uncompressed = no compression artifacts but you can encode as much information as you want up to 14 bits. You can also shoot compressed 14bit (AF-S mode, mechanical shutter, with compression=on in the settings), that's how it always worked with Sony.

Concerning the camera temperature - that's crazy I think that's probably the reason why they are rushing this poor camera to the market. They want to sell as much as they can while it's cold and people didn't realize it'll overheat during the summer.

This is on page 143 of the help guide MSP posted above (see graphic).

- A

 

[Don Haines]

Concerning the camera temperature - that's crazy I think that's probably the reason why they are rushing this poor camera to the market. They want to sell as much as they can while it's cold and people didn't realize it'll overheat during the summer.

Up here in Canada, a camera that helps keep you hands warm could be a great marketing feature!

Canon cameras don’t have a built in hand warmer..... Canon is doomed!

 

[Jopa]

Remember our old conversation - uncompressed doesn't automatically imply it's 14bit. Compressed = small file size with some compression artifacts. Uncompressed = no compression artifacts but you can encode as much information as you want up to 14 bits. You can also shoot compressed 14bit (AF-S mode, mechanical shutter, with compression=on in the settings), that's how it always worked with Sony.

Concerning the camera temperature - that's crazy I think that's probably the reason why they are rushing this poor camera to the market. They want to sell as much as they can while it's cold and people didn't realize it'll overheat during the summer.

This is on page 143 of the help guide MSP posted above (see graphic).

- A

Thank you, it seems convincing now

 

[Loswr]

I’m not sure I’d call the AF lock thing “shenanigans.” The fact that it will (allegedly) focus at f/11 at all is noteworthy. My 1dx won’t even try.

You're confusing the max aperture of the lens with the set value. Your 1D X won't AF through the viewfinder with an f/11 max lens (e.g., a 400/5.6 + 2x TC), although it will AF in live view with that combo. But if you set your 70-200mm f/4 lens to f/11, your camera will happily focus between shots in AI Servo. The Sony focuses at the aperture you choose for the shot, so if you mount an f/4 lens and set the aperture to f/11, the camera won't focus between shots even if set to AF-C.

That certainly fits my definition of shenanigans.

 

[ahsanford]

Thank you, it seems convincing now

I think once they got called out for their 11+7 nonsense a few years back, their firmware course correction was to give folks the 14 bit files they were expecting from an FF rig. Those files were (after the fact) checked by DPR to be 14 bit, but Sony hasn't formally stated that they were in their product manuals.

Hat tip to MSP for linking the document with the actual info.

- A

 

[Jopa]

Concerning the camera temperature - that's crazy I think that's probably the reason why they are rushing this poor camera to the market. They want to sell as much as they can while it's cold and people didn't realize it'll overheat during the summer.

Up here in Canada, a camera that helps keep you hands warm could be a great marketing feature!

Canon cameras don’t have a built in hand warmer..... Canon is doomed!

I used to live in Texas where temperature can easily go over 40C in Summer (and may stay like that for a few weeks). Not sure if I would need a hand warmer. I think one of those cooled astro cameras would be more appropriate

 

[3kramd5]

The Sony focuses at the aperture you choose for the shot

AFAIK that isn’t a hard and fast rule; behavior is camera firmware and even lens dependent. I think zooms focus at set settings (to avoid focus shift), while primes focus wide open. I have an a7R2 I can check with for primes, but don’t own any native zooms for it.

With at least one version of A7R2 firmware it would focus initially wide open but attempt to track at set aperture.

Additionally, the exposure preview on/off may affect behavior.

 

[Jopa]

The Sony focuses at the aperture you choose for the shot

AFAIK that isn’t a hard and fast rule; behavior is camera firmware and even lens dependent. I think zooms focus at camera settings (to avoid focus shift), while primes focus wide open. I have an a7R2 I can check with for primes, but don’t own any native zooms for it.

https://diglloyd.com/prem/s/ALLVIEW/SonyFullFrame/Sony85f1_4_GM-focusAccuracy-Dolls.html?dglyPT=true

"camera keeps the lens stopped down to the shooting aperture and—critically—focuses while stopped down as well, a crucial algorithmic error in terms of focusing accuracy and precision "

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: temperature of the camera (not the WB):

"If the same part of your skin touches the camera for a long period of time while using the camera, even if the camera does not feel hot to you, it may cause symptoms of a low-temperature burn such as redness or blistering." (Page 8.)

- A

Yeh, ever look at page 20 of the 1DX MkII manual?

Or page 15 of the 5D MkIII manual?