Canon Full Frame body with crop mode ( that can use EF-S lenses)

[Angryoak]

Is a Canon Full Frame body with crop mode (that can use EF-S lenses) outside of the realms of possibility? I mean Nikon can do it, and it would be ideal if one could still use quality glass that is accumulated (eg:- EF-S 17-55 USM IS F2.8 ) when graduating to a FF, and also be able to utilise a crop reach on say 70-200 2.8 when desirable. :-\

 

[akiskev]

I think it's not possible for a FF Canon reflex, because the mirror will be hitting the back of the ef-s lens..
Maybe with a FF mirrorless it will be possible!

 

[AvTvM]

it would only be a problem with the current EF-S 10-22 since that is the ONLY EF-S lens that takes some advantage of the EF-S short back flange concept (rear element closer to sensor). All other current EF-S lenses have no rear elements protruding into the mirrorbox.

 

[JR]

I could be wrong but I thought that only Nikon could do it because they hold the patent for it. So for sure Canon can technologically do it, but if it anything remotely close to the way Nikon does it, they wont be able to because of Nikon's patent. That was my understanding...maybe soomeone can confirm...

Jacques

 

[cfargo]

Why do you need to crop in the Camera? Why not just do it in Post so that you have the option to do or not do later? As far as EF-S Lenses, they don't make any L ones so why even consider them? This is just my thought process.

 

[bainsybike]

it would only be a problem with the current EF-S 10-22 since that is the ONLY EF-S lens that takes some advantage of the EF-S short back flange concept (rear element closer to sensor). All other current EF-S lenses have no rear elements protruding into the mirrorbox.

Are you sure about that? I've just had a look at my EF-S lenses (15-85, 18-55, 55-250 as well as the 10-22) and they all seem to have the same protrusion.

 

[DzPhotography]

I think it's not possible for a FF Canon reflex, because the mirror will be hitting the back of the ef-s lens..
Maybe with a FF mirrorless it will be possible!

to my knowledge this is correct

 

[Ellen Schmidtee]

I could be wrong but I thought that only Nikon could do it because they hold the patent for it. So for sure Canon can technologically do it, but if it anything remotely close to the way Nikon does it, they wont be able to because of Nikon's patent. That was my understanding...maybe soomeone can confirm...

Jacques

Canon DSLRs already have mirror lockup. Canon pocket cameras can autofocus using contrast detection. The rest is technicalities, specifically -

1. A way to turn the camera off with the mirror locked up.

2. Check if an EF-S lens is connected to the camera, and if so -
2.1. If mirror is down, keep it down, display a message on the back screen, and under no condition move it up.
2.2. If mirror is up, keep it locked up, and use contrast detection to autofocus.

 

[AvTvM]

it would only be a problem with the current EF-S 10-22 since that is the ONLY EF-S lens that takes some advantage of the EF-S short back flange concept (rear element closer to sensor). All other current EF-S lenses have no rear elements protruding into the mirrorbox.

Are you sure about that? I've just had a look at my EF-S lenses (15-85, 18-55, 55-250 as well as the 10-22) and they all seem to have the same protrusion.

Thanks! You are right, I stand corrected.

Just checked it again myself. The physical protrusion is the same, only the rear lens element seems to not really fully use it - except at the 10-22 where it does come back all the way, and the 60 Macro seems to use a small part of the way.

 

[Radiating]

There's little to no practical reason to use an EF-S lens with a full frame body. Comprable full frame lenses will always get better resolution. In fact I made a list a while ago of every EF-S lens and the coresponding full frame lens at that price range and in every case the full frame lens was sharper than the EF-S lens in LPPM. Meaning using EF-S lenses would always be more expensive and result in lower quality. There would be some rare situations where it would be a good idea to be cross compatible though I'm sure though.

 

[smirkypants]

Why do you need to crop in the Camera? Why not just do it in Post so that you have the option to do or not do later? As far as EF-S Lenses, they don't make any L ones so why even consider them? This is just my thought process.

A couple of reasons. First, if you could see the cropped view properly in the viewfinder, you could frame the picture better and get a better shot.

Secondly, and more importantly, I would be shooting 16 ~ 18MP RAW files instead of 36 ~ 45 MP RAW files. This translates into much smaller files, much less wasted space, much higher equivalent capacity on the CF cards and much faster write speeds. All of these are important if you're shooting sports.

 

[awinphoto]

The mirror, ever since the 20D was the problem... If i'm not mistaken, the 20D was the first camera that allowed such as lens with a recessed back to fit inside with some tweaking of the mirror placement. It's been a good 8-9 years ago so it's hard to remember vividly the details... the 10D, while being a crop camera, because the mirror is in the same spot as all the other FF cameras, cannot take ef-s lenses. I have heard of work arounds such as removing the back element of the lenses, and some 3rd party lenses dont have an extended back which may or may not work with the sensor, albeit, the image circle is not big enough for FF so you get what you get from that lens. I'm not sure how nikon does it, or if their lenses are designed similar to canon's in the rear of the ef-s lens, but unless canon implements a mirror to either slide back a bit or has a mirror lock up/live view only with ef-s, I dont know how they could work around it without redesigning lenses, which i dont see happening.

 

[EYEONE]

If you really wanted to put an EF-S lens on a FF camera you could use extension tubes. It would vignette badly of course but it can be done.

 

[ejenner]

OK, Nikon can do it because their sensor to mount distance is larger than EF mount. Hence their DX lenses don't hit the mirrors and can be mounted on the FF Nikons.

Of course this is exactly the reason you can use Nikon F mount lenses on Canon with a simple adapter with no internal glass, where as you cannot use an EF mount on a Nikon.

In fact the short Canon mount is very nice four mounting 3rd party lenses and was a great idea until the 'crop' format lens came along. Actually apart from not being able to mount EF-S lenses on FF, the short mount distance is a very nice feature IMO, but may in part also explain why Canon has a harder time designing FF UWA lenses.

 

[Lyra Video Productions]

Why do you need to crop in the Camera? Why not just do it in Post so that you have the option to do or not do later? As far as EF-S Lenses, they don't make any L ones so why even consider them? This is just my thought process.

A couple of reasons. First, if you could see the cropped view properly in the viewfinder, you could frame the picture better and get a better shot.

Secondly, and more importantly, I would be shooting 16 ~ 18MP RAW files instead of 36 ~ 45 MP RAW files. This translates into much smaller files, much less wasted space, much higher equivalent capacity on the CF cards and much faster write speeds. All of these are important if you're shooting sports.

Another reason, and correct me if I'm wrong somebody, it could be useful for video for a few reasons. Beyond the ability to use cropped lenses, in video this would also allow you to "zoom" in (in theory) without a loss in resolution. Since video is only 1920x1080 pixels and takes samples from the larger sensor, this cropping would just be taking the sampled pixels from different crop values, still giving you full HD 1920x1080.

I'm too lazy to check the D800 stats, but isn't this a video feature it has?

EDIT: Okay I'm not too lazy afterall. It has it: http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d800/features02.htm

 

[Dbleznak]

Is a Canon Full Frame body with crop mode (that can use EF-S lenses) outside of the realms of possibility? I mean Nikon can do it, and it would be ideal if one could still use quality glass that is accumulated (eg:- EF-S 17-55 USM IS F2.8 ) when graduating to a FF, and also be able to utilise a crop reach on say 70-200 2.8 when desirable. :-\

I totally agree. I love my EF-S 17-55 USM IS F2.8 and wont switch to ff without it.

 

[DJL329]

Why do you need to crop in the Camera? Why not just do it in Post so that you have the option to do or not do later? As far as EF-S Lenses, they don't make any L ones so why even consider them? This is just my thought process.

A couple of reasons. First, if you could see the cropped view properly in the viewfinder, you could frame the picture better and get a better shot.

Secondly, and more importantly, I would be shooting 16 ~ 18MP RAW files instead of 36 ~ 45 MP RAW files. This translates into much smaller files, much less wasted space, much higher equivalent capacity on the CF cards and much faster write speeds. All of these are important if you're shooting sports.

That answers why you would want to use a Crop body and an EF-S lens, not why you would want to put an EF-S lens on a FF body. The image circle produced by an EF-S lens wouldn't fill up a FF sensor, so like CFARGO, I fail to see why you would want to do it.

 

[DJL329]

Is a Canon Full Frame body with crop mode (that can use EF-S lenses) outside of the realms of possibility? I mean Nikon can do it, and it would be ideal if one could still use quality glass that is accumulated (eg:- EF-S 17-55 USM IS F2.8 ) when graduating to a FF, and also be able to utilise a crop reach on say 70-200 2.8 when desirable.

In your scenario, I don't think you won't get the crop "reach" that you seek, because the pixel density on a Crop sensor is much higher than on a FF sensor.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

The answer is simply NO. EF-S lenses are designed so they cannot be mounted to a FF body! No exceptions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EF-S_lens_mount

"Canon designers have taken steps to ensure it is physically impossible to mount EF-S lenses on EF-only cameras. This is because the increased proximity of the lens to the sensor means that on full-frame sensor or 35mm film EF cameras the lens itself would obstruct the mirror's movement and cause damage to the lens and/or camera. While it is possible to modify the lens such that the physical obstruction is removed, allowing for mounting to EF mount cameras, the rear of the lens would still obstruct the mirror. An additional reason is that the lenses produce a smaller image circle of even illumination (circle of no vignetting). An EF-S lens alignment mark is indicated by a small white rectangle, whereas the EF employs a small red dot. The lens will insert into the body when the alignment marks on each are matched, and the lens can then be rotated and locked into the operating position. EF-S camera bodies have both EF-S and EF alignment marks, while EF bodies have only EF marks. Some have reported success attaching EF-S lenses to full-frame bodies with the use of an extension tube; however, this does not eliminate the vignetting problem, and also removes the lens's ability to achieve infinity focus."

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

Time to chime in on this one. I am a 7D user here just to get that out of the way...

Now....

knowing the system your on is very important in deciding what to buy. I made the 7D decision based on my finances. As an emerging pro with little resources I decided on the 7D because it was the best body I could get within my budget. And since then, all the purchases I have made have been with the thought of eventual upgrade.

I bought the 24-70 2.8 mki, because for my needs it fit the bill. A lot of the jobs I have are concerts/events, so the flexibility of a zoom was necessary. Low light is generally what I work in as well, so i needed it to be a fast as well as flexible. Prime lenses are on my list, but until I am doing more work in portraiture, the want does not = the need. My next lens purchase was a 70-200 2.8 non IS. L quality glass, good range, especially with the 1.6 crop factor. I also have 2 580 ExII flashes and plan to add a third, and eventually some form of transmitter (pocket wizards maybe?...not sure yet, for now I am going to use 580 as master).

The third lens I bought made me groan a little. the 10-22mm 3.5-4.5. I snagged it used from B&H thinking it would resolve my lack of wide angle ability. I had wanted it to be good for events, but at the wide end the distortion is just too much (don't get me wrong, it does make a nice image when there's enough light to use it throughout the focal range. But it is very hard to work with for events. It is a great lens for art though...

In making the decision to buy a super wide, I came very close to pulling the trigger on a 16-35mm, but I just didn't feel like it was wide enough on a crop sensor, great for FF, but not exactly what I was looking for. Do I regret the choice? No, I like my little 10-22 and if i can swing it financially, I would like to make my 7D be a second body, with a 5d mkiii being the one i use when quality is needed (weddings, art, portraits - 7D becomes what I bring to lower paid events). As i made the decision, I definitely took note, not only of the purchase value, but the used value as well. I made the final call to snag the 10-22mm knowing that at same point down the line it would probably be on ebay.

With all that said -----if your on a 7d, or any of the xxD, xxxD series camera's, don't pinch on glass, use the time on the cheaper body to invest in good glass! The only time you'll really feel left out glass wise on a crop sensor is for the super wide angle work. And, if your lusting after FF, then you should also be lusting over the L glass. Why buy a FF camera, and put a lens on it that won't give you the full punch of the sensor?

Stated another way - the good EF-S lenses actually aren't that far off in price from their EF brothers. I know it doesn't help if you've already bought them, but, if your looking and on the fence, why buy a 17-55 2.8 for over $1000 if you know that lens is limited to 1.6 crop bodies? And if you have already bought one, do some homework, see what the resale value is - not sure how well the higher end ef-s glass holds its value. Save up, swap, then go FF... It gets right back to knowing the system you are on though and planning upgrades for the long term...
http://chuckalaimo.com/