1D X - Clean HDMI out

[messus]

Now that we know that the 5D Mark III will be getting clean uncompressed HDMI by April 2013, I think it's time Canon also confirms this feature also will be made available for us who chose to spend even more money on buying the 1D X.

I work with both stills and video, and I bought the 1DX for it's extra low light performance and DR over the 5D3.

Given what we now know, that the much cheaper 5D3 will get clean HDMI out, it will be absolutely unacceptable if the 1DX does not get the same upgrade!! We know it is possible since the 1DC already have this option on 1080p footage.

So I really hope Canon would please give us who spend all our money on them, what we want!!

It would be remarkable if the 1DC and the 5D3 should have clean HDMI out, and the 1DX would not!!
This would mean Canon would try to force me to sell my house to get the ISO and DR performance on video of the 1DX through the 1DC. Which of course will not happen!

A faster and cheaper solution may be to just buy the Nikon D4!

Your thoughts?

Ola

 

[Viggo]

Not that I use clean hdmi, but I completely agree with your logics and I was very surprised that the 5d3 had this added in firmware and nothing about it for the 1d x.

 

[messus]

Not that I use clean hdmi, but I completely agree with your logics and I was very surprised that the 5d3 had this added in firmware and nothing about it for the 1d x.

Yeah thats what I mean, it is not logic if it stays that way.

Clean HDMI for the 1DX NOW !!!

 

[pedro]

I agree with your logics as well, given the fact that the 1Dx not only is a workhorse for press togs, as videography is becoming the "new" medium to do one's job. So I hope for every journalist out there, to get updated with this, as the 1Dx is almost double the price of a 5D3. "Crippling down" things in this sense would be an unhappy move.

 

[brad goda]

yes!
me too!

 

[Thedesignboy]

Bad news. I bought a 1dx as I'd asked canon directly if it will get the firmware in April. They told me yes. So I then bought the 1dx and called them again to ask when. They sent me a message that they made a mistake. A day later canon called me to apologise. They said the 1dx is too close to the 1dc so they will not release it. If we want hdmi and video features be the 1dc. I complained and told them that this was not good enough. That the 1dx was in fact marketed as a video device. It was the pinnacle of dslr shooting right up to the 1dc came out. So they offered me a full refund. But assured me there will be no firmware update.

I am holding out to hope that research dept don't speak to sales and that we might see the release in April. It would be a real shame not to. However it's low light is simply astounding to the 5d mk 2 and 3 - still a deal breaker for me even with the price hike.

And omg is the stills super crisp Witt the fast burst and af drive...

 

[Drizzt321]

I agree with your logics as well, given the fact that the 1Dx not only is a workhorse for press togs, as videography is becoming the "new" medium to do one's job. So I hope for every journalist out there, to get updated with this, as the 1Dx is almost double the price of a 5D3. "Crippling down" things in this sense would be an unhappy move.

I agree with the logic that the 1DX should get clean HDMI out, but at the same time I highly doubt any on the go or fast, compact photo journalist will use the HDMI out. The built-in recording to CF is probably, in general, plenty good quality for a quick hand-held, or monopod video usage.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I think the Cinema DSLR line was a bad mistake. They had a revolution with regular DSLR video by now they are cripple city and then $$$$ Cinema DSLR which doesn't make them stand out as much and take over the market.

 

[Drizzt321]

I think the Cinema DSLR line was a bad mistake. They had a revolution with regular DSLR video by now they are cripple city and then $$$$ Cinema DSLR which doesn't make them stand out as much and take over the market.

They had a big surprise when they introduced that, especially on the 5d2. However, it may have started to eat into their higher end video sales, which are both generally higher quality (especially lenses) and more profitable. So they decided they'll charge what the market can bear for a DSLR format video camera, instead of looking a bit closer at the target market and pricing it more like a top end DSLR for the high end of the VSDLR cameras (ala C500). If the C500 was more like $10K-12K, and the C100 was closer to $4k with the rest scaling up in the middle, then they might very well have something.

The Cinema lens prices...there's some extra padding there, but a top quality video lens (no focus breathing among other things) is tough and expensive, so those prices are more in line with other lens prices elsewhere for similar quality.

 

[ITshooter]

Bad news. I bought a 1dx as I'd asked canon directly if it will get the firmware in April. They told me yes. So I then bought the 1dx and called them again to ask when. They sent me a message that they made a mistake. A day later canon called me to apologise. They said the 1dx is too close to the 1dc so they will not release it. If we want hdmi and video features be the 1dc. I complained and told them that this was not good enough. That the 1dx was in fact marketed as a video device. It was the pinnacle of dslr shooting right up to the 1dc came out. So they offered me a full refund. But assured me there will be no firmware update.

I am holding out to hope that research dept don't speak to sales and that we might see the release in April. It would be a real shame not to. However it's low light is simply astounding to the 5d mk 2 and 3 - still a deal breaker for me even with the price hike.

And omg is the stills super crisp Witt the fast burst and af drive...

I'm not yet sold that the clean HDMI out will matter for a lot of applications, but if I owned a 1DX, I'd still be pretty aggravated by this news. That said, Canon reps also swore up and down that the 5D Mark III's hardware was incapable of supporting a clean HDMI output--claims we now know to be hogwash. Thus, if Canon is indeed assuring users there will be no firmware update, I'm suspicious. The 1DX isn't that close to the 1DC in terms of live features, and clean HDMI on the 1DX shouldn't threaten the more expensive option. the 1DX would still lack 4K, Canon log, Super 35mm crop... If a 5d Mark III with clean HDMI out isn't going to cannibalize 1DC sales, I don't see why a firmware-enhanced 1DX would do that trick. Sounds suspect.

 

[luftweg]

I hope you can see that there seems to be a class-action lawsuit potential here.

I also bought the 1DX a year ago, in large part because those 5D3s (available at that time) did not have a video advantage over the 1DX. Now, with the firmware update, not only do the newly sold 5D3s have the advantage of the clean HDMI, but the very same units that were sold when I bought the 1DX also have that advantage.

This amounts to a misrepresentation in advertising. You were tricked into spending nearly twice as much, under the belief that what you did NOT buy, for the cheaper price, was not superior in the video.

AND btw, the clean HDMI output DOES matter; check out this site which shows you can use the clean out to record to an external recorder and obtain footage that's more professionally workable (much like the diff between a RAW photo and a JPEG)

https://vimeo.com/65471795

https://vimeo.com/71751972

ALL EOS 1DX OWNERS SHOULD PUSH CANON FOR THE CLEAN HDMI UPDATE AND THREATEN CLASS-ACTION
IN THE VERY LEAST YOU MAY BE ABLE TO TAKE THEM TO SMALL CLAIMS COURT (in MA, the max claim is $7000, how convenient)

Bad news. I bought a 1dx as I'd asked canon directly if it will get the firmware in April. They told me yes. So I then bought the 1dx and called them again to ask when. They sent me a message that they made a mistake. A day later canon called me to apologise. They said the 1dx is too close to the 1dc so they will not release it. If we want hdmi and video features be the 1dc. I complained and told them that this was not good enough. That the 1dx was in fact marketed as a video device. It was the pinnacle of dslr shooting right up to the 1dc came out. So they offered me a full refund. But assured me there will be no firmware update.

I am holding out to hope that research dept don't speak to sales and that we might see the release in April. It would be a real shame not to. However it's low light is simply astounding to the 5d mk 2 and 3 - still a deal breaker for me even with the price hike.

And omg is the stills super crisp Witt the fast burst and af drive...

 

[luftweg]

I spoke to a woman at Canon tech support today, and she said 'she can guarantee 100 percent that there is NOT any position by Canon that it will not provide a 'clean HDMI output' update for the EOS 1DX..... in other words, according to her, all reports you may read or hear that Canon will never provide such a firmware update are wrong, and Canon has never said that.....
But she was not able to explain why the last update by Canon for the 1DX, which came after the 'clean HDMI' update for the 5D3, then did not contain a similar 'clean HDMI'.... It is this last part that makes one feel suspicious...

 

[Jim Saunders]

Why not give all the lawyer fees spent suing Canon over this to the ML guys? I expect that would be more productive.

Jim

 

[luftweg]

(** Note: I own an EOS 1DX (and a 1DS, and 7D) Why does it say Powershot?) I would rather just encourage Canon to release an update..... legal stuff would only be last resort.... of course, like I said, I could probably file small claims here in MA, for cost of camera, and then I would in good faith upgrade to the 1DC.... and of course pay for the difference.... Sometimes, though it's just the idea that people are unhappy to the point of considering such action, and giving bad publicity, which turns things around....

So, the simplest, and proper thing to do is just include the clean HDMI out in next firmware, and everyone will be happy.... People looking for 2k only would be more willing to go for 1DX over the 1DC, since the price is about double..... (of course, they would also need to get the external recorder).... the C100 costs about the same as the 1DX, but the 1DX also does the fantastic stills performance -- but the C100 has much better features for video/cinema....
Therefore I don't really think those two would 'eat into each other' very much....
And of course, the 5D3 would eat more into the C100, in terms of video, since it's even much cheaper than the C100....

It seems to me, they made a mistake and should have give the clean HDMI to the 1DX, to boost their sales, and since its the same cost as C100, it would have been a wash....

Why not give all the lawyer fees spent suing Canon over this to the ML guys? I expect that would be more productive.

Jim

 

[Menn707]

Set your AF mode in " Live mode" and you get clean hdmi out

 

[Ebrahim Saadawi]

A lawsuit potential? Really?

It's uncanny how bitter members are on camera boards these days,

while you're at, please also sue them because the 7D mk II doesn't have the articulating screen, or touchscreen capability, or wifi and 3x crop in video mode, while the cheaper 70D has them. Also, sue them because the 5D mk III doesn't have an articulating touch screen, or wifi, or 10 frames per second, and 65AF point and embeded in the HDMI output, while the cheaper 7D has them. And sue them because the 1Dx doesn't have a headphone jack or clean HDMI output while the cheaper 5D has them. Makes sense. In fact, why don't we sue them because the 1DC doesn't have art filters while the 700D has them!

Canon has never advertised the 1Dx to have a clean HDMI output, and never advertised it as having a headphone jack, you bought the camera at a certain price with certain specs and they delivered that, there willingness to add features after the purchase is completely up to them, and they are by no means obligated to do it, stop beimg ridiculous. When you bought your 1Dx you knew it doesn't have clean HDMI output, it was your decision and your money.

On a side note, I tested the HDMI output from the 5D mkIII, it offers ZERO improvement in image quality, in fact, it has a slight green tint in the shadows that looks worse than the internal H.264. The only reason one would use it is for having longer record times.

You're not missing out a lot. If there's a complaint it should be the headphone jack.

The 1DX has a LOT more compared to the 5D mk III, the image in video mode is far more organic, with finer noise grain and at least 1-2 stops of improvement in lowlight performance approaching C300 level of sensitivity, it's also a bit sharper and has an advantage in highlight dynamic range. And of course it's the world's best stills DSLR that shoots at 12 frames per second with a mechanical shutter and mirror, far superior to the 5D.

It's a great camera for film and stills, use it and stop being bitter over what's being offered in lower-end models, it's just how the market works.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

On a side note, I tested the HDMI output from the 5D mkIII, it offers ZERO improvement in image quality, in fact, it has a slight green tint in the shadows that looks worse than the internal H.264.

Yeah it did nothing for 5D3 video quality at all. All the damage is done at an earlier stage than the codec for the most part. Maybe for scenes where the entire frame changes from frame to frame and you want to avoid ALL-I skeeter noise, but otherwise is does nada for iamge quality, and as you say it even maybe does a trace worse. I swear it has a trace less dynamic range and sometimes a bit of a tint as you say.

ML RAW though, now that's the ticket for quality. 5D3 video IQ goes up a TON using that, night and day. It is a pig for space and it is a bit annoying to deal with, but it sure delivers .

 

[gsealy]

On a side note, I tested the HDMI output from the 5D mkIII, it offers ZERO improvement in image quality, in fact, it has a slight green tint in the shadows that looks worse than the internal H.264.

Yeah it did nothing for 5D3 video quality at all. All the damage is done at an earlier stage than the codec for the most part. Maybe for scenes where the entire frame changes from frame to frame and you want to avoid ALL-I skeeter noise, but otherwise is does nada for iamge quality, and as you say it even maybe does a trace worse. I swear it has a trace less dynamic range and sometimes a bit of a tint as you say.

ML RAW though, now that's the ticket for quality. 5D3 video IQ goes up a TON using that, night and day. It is a pig for space and it is a bit annoying to deal with, but it sure delivers .

I just want to mention that we have been using the Technicolor CP with the 5DIII and recording the HDMI out in the Ninja 2 with Apple Pro Res HQ. Then we color grade the video in the editor, we have been able to get excellent results with this work flow and color matching across cameras. ML is awesome I agree, but for the amount of video we create and that we often have 4 cameras at once involved, it is just too much overhead and time to do.

 

[Ebrahim Saadawi]

On a side note, I tested the HDMI output from the 5D mkIII, it offers ZERO improvement in image quality, in fact, it has a slight green tint in the shadows that looks worse than the internal H.264.

Yeah it did nothing for 5D3 video quality at all. All the damage is done at an earlier stage than the codec for the most part. Maybe for scenes where the entire frame changes from frame to frame and you want to avoid ALL-I skeeter noise, but otherwise is does nada for iamge quality, and as you say it even maybe does a trace worse. I swear it has a trace less dynamic range and sometimes a bit of a tint as you say.

ML RAW though, now that's the ticket for quality. 5D3 video IQ goes up a TON using that, night and day. It is a pig for space and it is a bit annoying to deal with, but it sure delivers .

I just want to mention that we have been using the Technicolor CP with the 5DIII and recording the HDMI out in the Ninja 2 with Apple Pro Res HQ. Then we color grade the video in the editor, we have been able to get excellent results with this work flow and color matching across cameras. ML is awesome I agree, but for the amount of video we create and that we often have 4 cameras at once involved, it is just too much overhead and time to do.

Have you compared the Prores files to the internal Mov files? I did and found absolutely no difference other than a slight magenta to green shift in colour.

Your workflow is good yes and the 5D is a great video camera, but if you record internally you'll get the exact same results.

Clean HDMI has benefits for some people I am not denying that, and I wish it was included in the 1Dx and rebels for that matter, the benefits are unlimited recording times, and if you have a slow editing system, having edit-friendly Prores files makes editing faster instead of having to transcode in post prior to editing, also it's nice to have a clean full screen monitor for clients while shooting.

Image quality increase is not one of the benefits.