1Ds Mark IV & 3 Lenses in August?

[Stone]

macfly & motorhead,

I'll have to respectfully disagree with you guys. While I'm sure there are alot of pros waiting for the 1Ds, I think at best, you make up less than 3-5% of Canon's customer base worldwide, I'll humbly apologize to you both if I'm proven wrong. I'm not discounting your need for such a body, my rant was simply that a far larger number of pros/semi-pros and amateurs are waiting for and ready to buy an updated 5 series body either as a replacement for aging equipment, exploration of DSLR video or crop shooters moving up to their 1st FF body.

I've made very little money with my photography, I consider it as a hobby that occasionally pays for itself, and my day job allows me to buy pretty nice gear up to and including a new 1Ds. I say it's not on the radar because It doesn't register as a value compared to a 5D or 1D4 depending on what one likes to shoot.

Ken

 

[macfly]

Stone, Canon needs to supply 'us' because if they didn't then we'd be using Nikon, Sony or maybe Leica. Canon wants the cache of being the pro choice even though we may not be the largest market segment. By our patronage we prove Canon is THE brand, the one that everyone else should desire.

I can't tell you how many of my shoots these days have B-roll crews, filming me working for such and such magazine/product/advertiser website, so a lot of people get to see what is in my hands. Beyond that I seriously get asked 'What camera should I/my wife/son/daughter/granny get?' ten times a week, and I always say Canon. I think I alone have sold a thousand of thier cameras, and the same is likely true for every other pro. We are more than the icing on the cake, we are Canons proof of excellence.

If Nikon bring out the D4 and it betters what Canon have on the market I'll switch in a heartbeat because I'll have to. I can't make excuses for my gear, I have to have the best equipment, and if I don't my clients will not remain clients for long. The onus is on Canon to stay ahead, and by leaving us out in the cold for much longer they risk loosing their pinnacle spot in the very important Pro FF SLR market.

How would you feel when you go to a game, an event or whatever, and all the pros are shooting Nikon because it is better? You'll start feeling your on the loosing team. Trust me. I know, that is what happened to me when the EOS came out back in 1991. I was all Nikon until the F4 dropped the ball, and Canon grabbed it and made a home run. It took about one year for every camera at the sports events, concerts, fashion shows, you name it, to go from Nikon to Canon.

We have to have to best, because we can't let our competition have anything better, and trust me, you'll want what we're using, even if you think we don't matter.

 

[macfly]

PS: Motorhead, I was the only photographer behind the scenes the year Team New Zealand won the Americas Cup in San Diego, so I know a little of boats and money! ;-)

 

[jrahadi]

Finally, Hope for $2000 Secondhand 1Ds3 - Re: 1Ds Mark IV & 3 Lenses in August?

I really hope that 1Ds4 can be released on August 2011, so many pros will dumped their 1Ds3 at $2K range

 

[Stone]

Stone, Canon needs to supply 'us' because if they didn't then we'd be using Nikon, Sony or maybe Leica. Canon wants the cache of being the pro choice even though we may not be the largest market segment. By our patronage we prove Canon is THE brand, the one that everyone else should desire.

I can't tell you how many of my shoots these days have B-roll crews, filming me working for such and such magazine/product/advertiser website, so a lot of people get to see what is in my hands. Beyond that I seriously get asked 'What camera should I/my wife/son/daughter/granny get?' ten times a week, and I always say Canon. I think I alone have sold a thousand of thier cameras, and the same is likely true for every other pro. We are more than the icing on the cake, we are Canons proof of excellence.

If Nikon bring out the D4 and it betters what Canon have on the market I'll switch in a heartbeat because I'll have to. I can't make excuses for my gear, I have to have the best equipment, and if I don't my clients will not remain clients for long. The onus is on Canon to stay ahead, and by leaving us out in the cold for much longer they risk loosing their pinnacle spot in the very important Pro FF SLR market.

How would you feel when you go to a game, an event or whatever, and all the pros are shooting Nikon because it is better? You'll start feeling your on the loosing team. Trust me. I know, that is what happened to me when the EOS came out back in 1991. I was all Nikon until the F4 dropped the ball, and Canon grabbed it and made a home run. It took about one year for every camera at the sports events, concerts, fashion shows, you name it, to go from Nikon to Canon.

We have to have to best, because we can't let our competition have anything better, and trust me, you'll want what we're using, even if you think we don't matter.

macfly,

Well put and all points taken. I've never stated that you guys don't matter, my post was more related to the ROI Canon would realize by releasing a body that's attractive and in the reach of a much larger demographic. I understand that the 1Ds has been out since 2007, almost a full year longer than the 5DII and that the D3x has a lead that Canon needs to address if they want to remain the go to choice for the best photogs.

 

[Cannon Man]

I agree with macfly and motorhead, the money isn't an issue for pro photographers.. we need the best camera available,
Even if i wasnt shooting full time i would still spend the same amount of money for a camera.

that's why there is a 5D Mark II, because it's more affortable. The 1Ds is a camera without compromises on size, weight, built guality.. those who want/need those features dont care how much money they have to whip out to get it.

 

[Flake]

I'm not sure that's right. Currently many pro photographers have said why should I pay that much? The feature set isn't worth that much more and as for the shutter life I can afford 3 x 5D MkII for the price of a 1Ds.

With the 5D MkII and the 1Ds MKIII there simply isn't enough between them to justify the higher cost, and Canon will have to do something pretty special to make such a gap again. In the early days of digital more money bought noticeably better images, but that's no longer the case, and I believe that Canon will struggle to make any new camera produce noticeably better images than the current crop, that leaves them with the feature set to differentiate with.

I think these cameras are being bought by companies for staff photographers, or people who had the previous 1Ds and have bought the new one simply because of that. The price is just too close to medium format and they are impressive to show clients!

Of course having a bigger camera than the client is part of the light & magic show impressing them is a big part of that, (probably explains why some still like to shoot film). Any new 1Ds will sell, but not in the quantities the 1Ds MkII did, it is possible that the 1Ds MkIV will be the end of the line, especially if it shares the same sensor with the 5D MkIII and can Canon justify developing a high end FF sensor which will only sell in very low numbers?

 

[motorhead]

PS: Motorhead, I was the only photographer behind the scenes the year Team New Zealand won the Americas Cup in San Diego, so I know a little of boats and money! ;-)

macfly,

I'm very jealous. Was that the year that the wing keels were the big talking point, or was that still to come? Now that is an area of the sport where being paranoid is considered normal, what with the spying, court cases and constant intrigues.

Nothing to do with the subject under discussion, but I had planned that this year was my last as a Yachtmaster Instructor (I am 64). Sadly it looks like a serious (and sudden) health issue has taken it from me. Never mind, thats one hobby that turned into a career 15 years ago, maybe the time is right to see where my photography can take me?

 

[macfly]

Flake, I think you'll find Canon have already learnt that lesson. If all the rumours are correct, the 5D Mkll will be 28mp, the EOS 42, that right there is the difference that the EOS line needs. They won't make the same mistake twice, because using the same sensor almost completely destroyed the 1Ds market.

Motorhead, it was 1995, I have a few pix of it up on my site here - http://macfly.com/speed/nz_index.php - click on the image to go to the next one. Good luck with the health issue, the joy of photography is that everyday it teaches us to have a hungry eye, and satisfying it is still my greatest joy.

 

[unruled]

I'm intrigued into the justification of the cost of 1series camera's.

Purely from a business/profit point of view. Would a camera with more megapixels and maybe 1-2 stops of more usable high ISO really justify spending 5k+? I'm not saying we wouldn't all want it, but from a business standpoint, would it actually deliver significant ROI? How many months/years to recoup the cost, and then start making those extra bucks with the new camera? the way i see it, that would entail either being able to get more business, or charge more after switching.

I find that hard to imagine, but I'm just a hobbyist. If it does recoup its cost (and deliver more), I would imagine it to be a niche case. I would like to be proven wrong though.

 

[motorhead]

unruled,

I'm sure if you asked 100 buyers of the 1Ds mk4 after it appears why they spent that sum of money you would get a hundred slightly different answers. Apart from higher MP for smoother images, my own interests lie in the dynamic range and low ISO performance, which must be best in class by some margin. I have no interest in the higher, noisier ISO's already offered on existing bodies and certainly don't need even more.

No, for me its a simple matter of the same, but better. To get this I'm prepared to pay.

But I am not about to stand on a soapbox and say that others are wrong. As I say, we all have different requirements. For example the 1d mk 4 is held up as the pre-eminent sports camera, yet when I am at F1 and MotoGP events I see loads of pro's using the 1Ds mk3. The truth is the 1Ds body is a very flexible tool which is exactly as it should be.

 

[macfly]

Unruled, in answer to - "Purely from a business/profit point of view. Would a camera with more megapixels and maybe 1-2 stops of more usable high ISO really justify spending 5k+?"

With this years (and maybe next?) years tax incentives for small business to buy equipment of any sort the entire system is a legitimate business write off, so essentially it is free, or at least comes at a susbtantial discount, but beyond that let me put the cost into perspective. On most shoots the rental charge on the lighting package is 5-7k, digitech team 2k, location or studio rental fees & permits 2-5k, assistants, transport etc, ~1.5k. It is rare that a day at work costs my clients less that 15k before fees, so turning up with a prosumer camera just doesn't look right.

 

[NXT1000]

i hope it is true, this sound more logical than 5d3 before 1ds3.
not that i am going to buy 1ds3, just too big for casual shooter.
also if it is true that it has very high MB. My computer is very fast, yet it does not work as fast as i would for 5d2 files, the computer industry have to improve their computer too. But i see little improvement over last 2 years.

 

[liberace]

i hope it is true, this sound more logical than 5d3 before 1ds3.
not that i am going to buy 1ds3, just too big for casual shooter.
also if it is true that it has very high MB. My computer is very fast, yet it does not work as fast as i would for 5d2 files, the computer industry have to improve their computer too. But i see little improvement over last 2 years.

Are you running 10,000 rpm HDDs in RAID 0+1? SSDrive for cached files? A well built PC from two years ago can open and process dozens of RAW files, never mind new PCs today.

 

[NXT1000]

Are you running 10,000 rpm HDDs in RAID 0+1? SSDrive for cached files? A well built PC from two years ago can open and process dozens of RAW files, never mind new PCs today.

The CPU speed has not improved by much over 2 years.
No raid no 10k rpm hdd, i was using ocz summit SSD at first, but found that aperture does not allow the raw file to place in another hd. So, i just use a 7500 rpm HDD now.

It is not bad, but i am thinking about the next generation of high MB DSLR.

My system ok for 5d2 now.

But when it go 40MB more or less, i need a new computer, and a look at the computer site, i think no PC can cope well with file size of that type.

 

[macfly]

You should be on a Mac, no problems here even with multiple P65 (PhaseOne 65mp back) files in Capture on or Canon files in Photoshop.

 

[Admin US West]

You should be on a Mac, no problems here even with multiple P65 (PhaseOne 65mp back) files in Capture on or Canon files in Photoshop.

I'd be willing to tackle those 200mb Hasselblad digital files. Lightroom might choke though.

 

[macfly]

Never used it, or Apature, all Photoshop all the time, and Preview for editing the low-rez jpgs.

 

[motorhead]

"Lightroom might choke......"

Considering LR struggles with even very small files because of the resource hog it is, I would tend to agree. However that's more of an issue for the software designers rather than a problem with the computer or high pixel count image files.

I've always considered good computer code as code that manages to achieve the object using as little computer effort as possible. LR seems to have been written by people who think otherwise.

 

[Admin US West]

"Lightroom might choke......"

Considering LR struggles with even very small files because of the resource hog it is, I would tend to agree. However that's more of an issue for the software designers rather than a problem with the computer or high pixel count image files.

I've always considered good computer code as code that manages to achieve the object using as little computer effort as possible. LR seems to have been written by people who think otherwise.

Yes, but, we want all that power to manipulate images, and all the bells and whistles. I have photoshop CS5 as well, as far as being a computer hog, its about the same.

I'm importing about 20,000 files into lightroom right now, It is half done after 5 minutes. The latest version isn't bad, when ver 3 first came out, a lot of users complained.

I do have a small SSD for my primary drive, but images are stored on a ordinary $60.00 1 TB drive.