1DX II 1080p @120fps real resolution issue.

[Jack Douglas]

Makes me kind of laugh relative to the outspoken comments about the 5D4 needing CFast and why isn't it in there, even though that's not a bottle neck for the camera. Imagine the screaming if it was. The camera is too expensive for so many but it should have CFast!

What brand 256 do you have?

Jack

 

[East Wind Photography]

Makes me kind of laugh relative to the outspoken comments about the 5D4 needing CFast and why isn't it in there, even though that's not a bottle neck for the camera. Imagine the screaming if it was. The camera is too expensive for so many but it should have CFast!

What brand 256 do you have?

Jack

I use the lexar 3500X. Works just fine recording 4k60. Thats about as taxing as it gets for this camera.

The 1dx2 can record 4k30 on a good CF card. Im wondering if the 5div compresses it more in order to meet the write speed? Anyway im sure it works fine. The only thing i wish the 1dx2 had was the ability to switch recording modes when failing over to the CF card. That is if younare recording 4k60 and the card fills and fails over to the CF, it would fail over to 4k30 to keep recording without skipping a beat.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Well, it's going to be taxing for me learning all these things I've never done!

But it'll be fun!

I tried to get a sub and pay the difference on the 64 to go to a 128 but they didn't even have one in stock. 256 is so expensive. What I imagine is that wildlife video would generally be more segmented unlike recording a performance. However, if you're not near a computer to dump the files there is still a problem. Maybe I'll have to ask Santa for CFast cards.

Jack

 

[East Wind Photography]

Well, it's going to be taxing for me learning all these things I've never done!

But it'll be fun!

I tried to get a sub and pay the difference on the 64 to go to a 128 but they didn't even have one in stock. 256 is so expensive. What I imagine is that wildlife video would generally be more segmented unlike recording a performance. However, if you're not near a computer to dump the files there is still a problem. Maybe I'll have to ask Santa for CFast cards.

Jack

Ive found that once you start doing 4k you realize how poor your computers are and need to upgrade them too. Its never endng....

 

[Jack Douglas]

Well, it's going to be taxing for me learning all these things I've never done!

But it'll be fun!

I tried to get a sub and pay the difference on the 64 to go to a 128 but they didn't even have one in stock. 256 is so expensive. What I imagine is that wildlife video would generally be more segmented unlike recording a performance. However, if you're not near a computer to dump the files there is still a problem. Maybe I'll have to ask Santa for CFast cards.

Jack

Ive found that once you start doing 4k you realize how poor your computers are and need to upgrade them too. Its never endng....

Just what I was suspecting! I have one advantage - my wife is always encouraging me to upgrade, believe it or not.

Jack

 

[Besisika]

The only thing i wish the 1dx2 had was the ability to switch recording modes when failing over to the CF card. That is if you are recording 4k60 and the card fills and fails over to the CF, it would fail over to 4k30 to keep recording without skipping a beat.

That would be nice!
I haven't used 30fps before, but I find myself using it more and more. The rolling shutter on the 4K24fps is unacceptable, while on the 60p is very well controlled, the 30fps seems reasonable. Besides, my CF can handle the 30fps very well.
I used to use 5D III as my B camera, but I have more difficulties matching the footage. Most likely I will have to upgrade it to 5D IV someday. It has 30fps as well. If, your fail over to CF, works then I am good. I have few CF.
A little bit off topic, I am wondering (a little negativity) if it is a technology related issue, if they will fix it on next firmware or if this is their way to tell people to upgrade but 4K24fps worries me. It forces me to use only one camera and running all over the place in between to get some B rolls, and 60fps eats up my card, and so far I have only one C-fast. A-roll goes to Ninja Assassin.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Besisika, or others that do DSLR video a lot, if you are able please recommend a good book that will help get me started with the 1DX II. I've been reading all I can but it's difficult getting up to speed, especially with the jargon. I think it would be close to a crime for me to have purchased a 1DX II and not shoot wildlife video to some extent!

Jack

 

[Besisika]

Besisika, or others that do DSLR video a lot, if you are able please recommend a good book that will help get me started with the 1DX II. I've been reading all I can but it's difficult getting up to speed, especially with the jargon. I think it would be close to a crime for me to have purchased a 1DX II and not shoot wildlife video to some extent!

Jack

Jack,
I am not a professional when it comes to videography and I don't think I am the right person to suggest. But, I can tell you what I did, and let's wait for others to comment.

I am a lifestyle storyteller.
In photography I value creativity, but in motion I focus mainly in history (not even story). That's mainly because I am an amateur. I use video to complement the missing aspects of photography: motion (hence 3D) and sound.

1 - The main source of my knowledge is Lynda.com
I subscribed for about 6 months and that was enough to get me started.
Look at
https://www.lynda.com/Video-training-tutorials/78-0.html
and start with the category DSLR video.

2 - I expanded my knowledge a bit, even though I am not interested in cinematography at all, by reading outside of my interest.
This is an advanced and addresses the needs of cinematographers (which I am not or intend to be at all)
The book is called the 5 C's of cinematography

https://books.google.ca/books/about/The_Five_C_s_of_Cinematography.html?id=0gBMAQAAIAAJ&redir_esc=y

Yes, it is a crime (not close to) to have 1DX II without using it for video. But you know this already; in order to learn: shoot as much as you can, even insignificant stuff. You will understand and remember much better issues that you encountered.

 

[syder]

I've used https://www.amazon.com/Cinematography-Theory-Practice-Cinematographers-Directors/dp/0240812093/ref=zg_bs_2023_9 as a text for teaching cinematography before, but it's quite heavily geared towards fiction (or at least situations where you'll be able to use lights to shape your image).

One big thing to consider with any DSLR for video is the ergonomics - will you be primarily using a tripod? If not holding the camera out in front of you (especially with a big telephoto lens for wildlife) is unlikely to be stable and will get very heavy very quickly. There are a multitude of 15mm rails systems out there that will let you shoulder mount for stability (and you dont need to spend a huge amount on one).

Also look into getting a good quality variable ND filter (singh-rey or similar). When your shutter is mainly going to be set at 1/2*frame rate there are times when there's just too much light without some ND. But cheap NDs are likely to soften your image and give it a colour cast.

Video pretty much always has a lot less latitude than 14bit RAW images, so you want to get your image close to right in camera while using a profile that will avoid clipping blacks or whites - probably the Prolost flat settings (neutral profile, no sharpening). I also had some good results with the Visioncolor profiles when I was doing some DSLR video. And try to manual white balance before you shoot, having to fix it afterwards is far more of a pain than it is with stills.

Once you're happy with your filming setup I guess you'll want to think about editing software and grading images... If your computer will run it you might want to look at DaVinci Resolve, as it's free (or at least has a free version that will probably do everything you want in an NLE) and has some very powerful colouring tools.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Besisika and Syder, thanks very much for these tips and suggestions. I'll be doing all I can to learn quickly but I know there are challenges. Do you guys have any thoughts on these active gimbal set-ups as well as a general purpose lens that's not for wildlife? I guess that is very personal based on subject matter but what do you think of the 24-70 F4? Initially anyway, I'd be shooting in wilderness holiday situations.

Jack

 

[Besisika]

Besisika and Syder, thanks very much for these tips and suggestions. I'll be doing all I can to learn quickly but I know there are challenges. Do you guys have any thoughts on these active gimbal set-ups as well as a general purpose lens that's not for wildlife? I guess that is very personal based on subject matter but what do you think of the 24-70 F4? Initially anyway, I'd be shooting in wilderness holiday situations.

Jack

Correction to my previous post: the 5D III shoots 30fps but HDMI is only 60fps and that's why I didn't like it. I did some extensive tests today and I prefer using it than the 24fps on the 1DX II. This way, all my footage will be 60fps with cinestyle.

Back to your Q; I don't use gimbal much due to time to set it up. I know that they are getting faster but I prefer not for now. I am a single band anyway. I use a tripod and a monopod.

I own the 24-70f4. It has a very good stabilization for video and I really like it, however I shoot only indoor video and f4 won't cut it most of the time - but it is perfect for handheld 10s snippet. For those who shoot outdoor, I guess, it would be a perfect lens and it takes the same ND filter as the 70-200 2.8

 

[Jack Douglas]

Thanks for that. I was reading the manual and boy it's not easy to extract shooting guideline information for a novice.

Someone has made a comment about shooting 4k and outputting 2k - I didn't seem to see anything on that??

Also in buying another CFast card, I see Delkin being recommended - any thoughts?

I'm afraid my head is spinning.

Jack

 

[syder]

Thanks for that. I was reading the manual and boy it's not easy to extract shooting guideline information for a novice.

Someone has made a comment about shooting 4k and outputting 2k - I didn't seem to see anything on that??

Also in buying another CFast card, I see Delkin being recommended - any thoughts?

I'm afraid my head is spinning.

Jack

Shooting 4k and outputting 2k/HD is a way of ensuring that you get very sharp HD footage, and that you dont lose any resolution if you need to stabilize footage or crop in slightly to reframe. Its been one of the common uses of 4K cameras so far, as so little content has been watched at native resolution. It wouldn't be in the camera manual as it's something you typically do in postproduction, indeed if you did downsample in camera and then stabilized or cropped you would be losing resolution.

Active gimbals are relatively specialized tools for adding fluid movement rather than general purpose supports. They tend to work best with wide/UWA lenses and will add a lot of bulk to your wilderness kit (although if you have a 4x4 with you i guess that wouldn't matter). I wouldn't worry about them for now if I were you. The main support you'll likely use is a good tripod with a fluid head. What kind of tripod setup do you have for your wildlife photography?

Besisika - how do you find Cinestyle? I never liked it at all. I thought it rendered skin tones horribly and the log curve just brought out a lot of the noise in the shadows with the 5DmIII's 4:2:0 footage. I've generally been unconvinced by log gamma with 8 bit video outside of shooting CLOG using DNx + Atomos recorders with a C100 which is 4:2:2 and a fairly high bitrate, it just means your already very thin image is being compressed into too small a luma range. The high bitrate 4:2:2 footage from the 1DX2 might be a significant step up when compared to earlier canon DSLRs though, I've not used one so cant say.

 

[Jack Douglas]

syder, when I use a tripod, which isn't too often it's a carbon fiber lightweight unit that I put my Jobu Jr. on. I'm guessing the gimbal might work for video if it's carefully balanced and kept lose?? How would a fluid head differ?

Thanks about the 4k->2k.

Jack

 

[Besisika]

Besisika - how do you find Cinestyle? I never liked it at all. I thought it rendered skin tones horribly and the log curve just brought out a lot of the noise in the shadows with the 5DmIII's 4:2:0 footage. I've generally been unconvinced by log gamma with 8 bit video outside of shooting CLOG using DNx + Atomos recorders with a C100 which is 4:2:2 and a fairly high bitrate, it just means your already very thin image is being compressed into too small a luma range. The high bitrate 4:2:2 footage from the 1DX2 might be a significant step up when compared to earlier canon DSLRs though, I've not used one so cant say.

Frankly, that is one of those things that my eyes don't see: skintone. I am sure that it is very important, since many claims to stick with Canon because it produces nice skintone, but my eyes don't see it.
I use atomos and prores HQ with my 5D. Yes, I see big difference in quality between the 5D III and 1DX II so most likely that's what you are referring to. I interpreted it as the difference between 1080 and 4K

I stick with Cinestyle because all of my past footage were shot with it. 10+ years ago, when I began photostory I decided to use it and changing profile will make my post even more time consuming when mixing and matching nowadays's footage with the old ones. Using the same profile and LUT tweaking is more manageable.
My main concern is now that I shot old stuff in 24fps, and it looks like I am going to shoot at 30fps the new ones, unless they fix the rolling shutter thing in next firmware.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Is it "smoothness" that determines the speed you shoot at?

Jack

 

[East Wind Photography]

Is it "smoothness" that determines the speed you shoot at?

Jack

There are a lot of factors but to get the smoothest action you should use a shutter speed of 1/fps. That is when shooting at 4k 30fps, you should use 1/30s shutter speed, and vary your aperture and/or ISO to adjust exposure. That should give you the best smoothness.

There are times when you should/can deviate depending on how much movement there is and wether you are shooting from a tripod. Some forms of special effects require deviation as well.

Its always best to fill up as much of the frames as possible with content and eliminate gaps between frames.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Is it "smoothness" that determines the speed you shoot at?

Jack

There are a lot of factors but to get the smoothest action you should use a shutter speed of 1/fps. That is when shooting at 4k 30fps, you should use 1/30s shutter speed, and vary your aperture and/or ISO to adjust exposure. That should give you the best smoothness.

There are times when you should/can deviate depending on how much movement there is and wether you are shooting from a tripod. Some forms of special effects require deviation as well.

Its always best to fill up as much of the frames as possible with content and eliminate gaps between frames.

Thanks for that. The pieces are falling into place. Now, what exactly happens if there is action and you think you might want to extract a frame and so choose to go much higher in shutter speed. How bad does it get and are there remedies?

Jack

 

[East Wind Photography]

Is it "smoothness" that determines the speed you shoot at?

Jack

There are a lot of factors but to get the smoothest action you should use a shutter speed of 1/fps. That is when shooting at 4k 30fps, you should use 1/30s shutter speed, and vary your aperture and/or ISO to adjust exposure. That should give you the best smoothness.

There are times when you should/can deviate depending on how much movement there is and wether you are shooting from a tripod. Some forms of special effects require deviation as well.

Its always best to fill up as much of the frames as possible with content and eliminate gaps between frames.

Thanks for that. The pieces are falling into place. Now, what exactly happens if there is action and you think you might want to extract a frame and so choose to go much higher in shutter speed. How bad does it get and are there remedies?

Jack

Usualy your eye can filter out the missed data but on action like a soccer player kicking a ball, it will end up not as smooth. There is software that can fill the missing data but generally you would want to just use more frames per second and thus a shorter shutter speed.

 

[syder]

Is it "smoothness" that determines the speed you shoot at?

Jack

The system you use is what traditionally determined your frame rate. Cinema was 24, PAL tv systems (EU, UK, AUS) were 25 progressive or 50 interlaced frames and NTSC (US, Japan, S America) were 30p/60i (well 29.97 but lets not go there). HDTV still tend to be an interlaced signal so you're working at 50/60i

Playing footage back on a computer you don't have interlacing or frame rate as a constraint. 24/25 is considered to look more cinematic, because we are used to seeing cinema at 24fps. 50/60i looks like video - motion is smoother, but because the traditional associations are video=cheap cinema=expensive and expensive=good cheap=bad a lot of the videos you'll see online are shot at 24 or 25fps. Consequently, when Peter Jackson released the HFR version of the Hobbit at 48fps most reviewers went yuck, it looks like a cheap 1990s tv series.

Is it "smoothness" that determines the speed you shoot at?

Jack

There are a lot of factors but to get the smoothest action you should use a shutter speed of 1/fps. That is when shooting at 4k 30fps, you should use 1/30s shutter speed, and vary your aperture and/or ISO to adjust exposure. That should give you the best smoothness.

There are times when you should/can deviate depending on how much movement there is and wether you are shooting from a tripod. Some forms of special effects require deviation as well.

Its always best to fill up as much of the frames as possible with content and eliminate gaps between frames.

This is wrong. Sorry, but the usual rule of thumb for shutter speed in video is the 180 degree rule (http://www.red.com/learn/red-101/shutter-angle-tutorial) which states that your shutter should be 1/(2*frame rate) so for 30p use 1/60th and for 60p use 1/120th.

There are a few times when you'll deviate from that - if you're planning to use a slow motion plugin like twixtor, if you're shooting something like rain falling which is too fast to see at 1/50th, or to create a jarring motion effect for your zombie chase sequence, but 95% of the time for video stay at 2*frame rate.

And from a cinematography perspective you don't use aperture or ISO much for exposure, your aperture is used for DoF and your ISO is kept as close to base as possible (as you don't have tools that are anything like as good as still for NR, and movement of noise over time can be a lot more distracting than in a single frame). Your go to changes are ND and lighting the scene, then ISO (particularly with a 1DX2 which should allow some pretty clean highish ISO video) then aperture.