1DX2: Dynamic Range

[JoeDavid]

FWIW, here is an example of the dynamic range increase of the 1DXm2 over the 1DX at ISO 100. There is a downtown scene I take a shot of with every new camera body I get. The overall scene has a lot of brick and detail in it. If taken in the morning, down at the lower right of the shot there is some deep shadows. This morning I took both cameras with me and shot the scene handheld at ISO 100. The 1DX had the older 24-105/4L IS set to 35mm and f8. The 1DXm2 had the 16-35/4L IS also set to 35mm and f8. Both cameras metered the scene as 1/250 second shutter speed. Since it was handheld the overall scene varies slightly but is essentially the same. Both RAW files were opened in Photoshop CC with the standard profile, default sharpening and noise reduction disabled, and no lens profile selected. I used auto-levels on both scenes and then used the Shadows and Highlights... adjustment with shadows set to 25%. Below is the results. Both crops are 1500x1200 so the increased size of the 1DXm2 of 20MP magnifies the area slightly.

 

[JoeDavid]

As a point of reference, here are the two crops without the Shadows and Highlights adjustment.

 

[ehouli]

Sorry to bother the theory about the benefits of having the ADCs incorporated into the sensor, but how do you explain the 6D handling noise better than the 5D mk III when having just one ADC instead of two? it means the 6D has less circuitry to process images but delivers cleaner images than the 5DIII.

6D ADC detail

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/53eba24de4b0c2eda84a2722/562e469fe4b082785ca2762b/562e46a1e4b03c1eab61a7ce/1446387126274/FIXYOURCAMERA-ORG-teardown-Canon-6D-cmos-sensor-267.jpg?format=1500w

 

[tomri]

I just bought a couple of 6TB drives to add to my backup...

Side question: how do you connect the drvies? Can you recommend a reliable usb-sata enclosure?

 

[tron]

I just bought a couple of 6TB drives to add to my backup...

Side question: how do you connect the drvies? Can you recommend a reliable usb-sata enclosure?

I can think of two totally different ways:

1. Combine them to an enclosure that supports mirroring (Raid 1).

2. Put them in simple USB-Sata boxes and store the same data alternating between the two but without having them connected to power and usb at the same time. In this way you can be protected from a disaster which could affect both drives at the same time: user error (which would safely be mirrored to both drives) and mains falure...

 

[applecider]

Joedavis can you push the shadows all the way and show your crops after doing that, or do it in Lightroom . And maybe lower the highlights to see what the files do there. A better example could be to blow highlights on a scene and then see how high they are recoverable. The scene you posted could when shadows raised, just be showing that the m ii shoots brighter at given settings another poster showed scenes of boxes on his deck and the m ii clearly exposed more at the same settings.

A typical sunset scene would potentially give an idea of both highlight and shadow recoverability.

Thanks for posting what you have.

 

[K-amps]

An ADC is not a very complex circuit. Quite simple, actually. The primary benefit of moving the ADC onto the sensor die, is you can then have one ADC unit per column of pixels. The primary source of noise in a digital camera is ADC noise, and that is usually due to high operating frequency (and it gets worse the longer the traces from pixel to ADC unit are).

SNIP...

These are the kind of posts that make me come back to canon rumors (Once the fervor over new equipment dies down).
Thanks Jrista

+100: I remember when these forums were a wealth of information with people like Neuro and Jon. For some reason Jon became a bit disinterested and Neuro became cynical and only intersted in foiling Dilbert... I miss the old Neuro... patient and gracious.

Welcome back Jon!

 

[tron]

An ADC is not a very complex circuit. Quite simple, actually. The primary benefit of moving the ADC onto the sensor die, is you can then have one ADC unit per column of pixels. The primary source of noise in a digital camera is ADC noise, and that is usually due to high operating frequency (and it gets worse the longer the traces from pixel to ADC unit are).

SNIP...

These are the kind of posts that make me come back to canon rumors (Once the fervor over new equipment dies down).
Thanks Jrista

+100: I remember when these forums were a wealth of information with people like Neuro and Jon. For some reason Jon became a bit disinterested and Neuro became cynical and only intersted in foiling Dilbert... I miss the old Neuro... patient and gracious.

Welcome back Jon!

+1000: This is why I consider this site as less than a rumor and more like a technical site. People with similar interests sharing ideas, knowledge, opinions. Much more valueable than rumors.

 

[RGF]

I just bought a couple of 6TB drives to add to my backup...

Side question: how do you connect the drvies? Can you recommend a reliable usb-sata enclosure?

I can think of two totally different ways:

1. Combine them to an enclosure that supports mirroring (Raid 1).

2. Put them in simple USB-Sata boxes and store the same data alternating between the two but without having them connected to power and usb at the same time. In this way you can be protected from a disaster which could affect both drives at the same time: user error (which would safely be mirrored to both drives) and mains falure...

If you are on a Mac, look at Mac Sales (OWC) and their thunder bay drive. Has 4 slots, with RaidSoft can run Raid, 0, 1, 5, perhaps others.

 

[GuyF]

...Neuro became cynical and only intersted in foiling Dilbert...

Hold up, I thought Neuro and Dilbert was just the same person but with two accounts, no?

 

[ishdakuteb]

Sorry to bother the theory about the benefits of having the ADCs incorporated into the sensor, but how do you explain the 6D handling noise better than the 5D mk III when having just one ADC instead of two? it means the 6D has less circuitry to process images but delivers cleaner images than the 5DIII.

6D ADC detail

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/53eba24de4b0c2eda84a2722/562e469fe4b082785ca2762b/562e46a1e4b03c1eab61a7ce/1446387126274/FIXYOURCAMERA-ORG-teardown-Canon-6D-cmos-sensor-267.jpg?format=1500w

Sorry, all sensor gods/or circuit board gods are either busy googling for your question or not be able to find solution to your answer... LOL...

Note: Having seen your question since yesterday, and having been, quite very patient, waiting for answers with a hope that there is something to read for fun (not intended to remember since there are already many things to remember in life, such as personal/work usernames and passwords )

 

[Don Haines]

I just bought a couple of 6TB drives to add to my backup...

Side question: how do you connect the drvies? Can you recommend a reliable usb-sata enclosure?

They are Western Digital "Mybook" drives already in a USB enclosure.

I keep one at work and the other at a friend's for offsite backup and alternate updating them.

You REALLY!!!!! need offsite backup to be safe....

 

[ehouli]

Sorry to bother the theory about the benefits of having the ADCs incorporated into the sensor, but how do you explain the 6D handling noise better than the 5D mk III when having just one ADC instead of two? it means the 6D has less circuitry to process images but delivers cleaner images than the 5DIII.

6D ADC detail

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/53eba24de4b0c2eda84a2722/562e469fe4b082785ca2762b/562e46a1e4b03c1eab61a7ce/1446387126274/FIXYOURCAMERA-ORG-teardown-Canon-6D-cmos-sensor-267.jpg?format=1500w

Sorry, all sensor gods/or circuit board gods are either busy googling for your question or not be able to find solution to your answer... LOL...

Note: Having seen your question since yesterday, and having been, quite very patient, waiting for answers with a hope that there is something to read for fun (not intended to remember since there are already many things to remember in life, such as personal/work usernames and passwords )

hahahahahaa well, seems this question will be neglected... 8)

 

[bdunbar79]

Sorry to bother the theory about the benefits of having the ADCs incorporated into the sensor, but how do you explain the 6D handling noise better than the 5D mk III when having just one ADC instead of two? it means the 6D has less circuitry to process images but delivers cleaner images than the 5DIII.

6D ADC detail

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/53eba24de4b0c2eda84a2722/562e469fe4b082785ca2762b/562e46a1e4b03c1eab61a7ce/1446387126274/FIXYOURCAMERA-ORG-teardown-Canon-6D-cmos-sensor-267.jpg?format=1500w

Sorry, all sensor gods/or circuit board gods are either busy googling for your question or not be able to find solution to your answer... LOL...

Note: Having seen your question since yesterday, and having been, quite very patient, waiting for answers with a hope that there is something to read for fun (not intended to remember since there are already many things to remember in life, such as personal/work usernames and passwords )

hahahahahaa well, seems this question will be neglected... 8)

I'd say it's because you're assuming the only dictator of noise is the location of the ADC's. Nobody knows where to start with your inquiry.

 

[jrista]

An ADC is not a very complex circuit. Quite simple, actually. The primary benefit of moving the ADC onto the sensor die, is you can then have one ADC unit per column of pixels. The primary source of noise in a digital camera is ADC noise, and that is usually due to high operating frequency (and it gets worse the longer the traces from pixel to ADC unit are).

SNIP...

These are the kind of posts that make me come back to canon rumors (Once the fervor over new equipment dies down).
Thanks Jrista

+100: I remember when these forums were a wealth of information with people like Neuro and Jon. For some reason Jon became a bit disinterested and Neuro became cynical and only intersted in foiling Dilbert... I miss the old Neuro... patient and gracious.

Welcome back Jon!

+1000: This is why I consider this site as less than a rumor and more like a technical site. People with similar interests sharing ideas, knowledge, opinions. Much more valueable than rumors.

Glad to be helpful, guys.

 

[3kramd5]

Sorry to bother the theory about the benefits of having the ADCs incorporated into the sensor, but how do you explain the 6D handling noise better than the 5D mk III when having just one ADC instead of two? it means the 6D has less circuitry to process images but delivers cleaner images than the 5DIII.

6D ADC detail

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/53eba24de4b0c2eda84a2722/562e469fe4b082785ca2762b/562e46a1e4b03c1eab61a7ce/1446387126274/FIXYOURCAMERA-ORG-teardown-Canon-6D-cmos-sensor-267.jpg?format=1500w

Sorry, all sensor gods/or circuit board gods are either busy googling for your question or not be able to find solution to your answer... LOL...

Note: Having seen your question since yesterday, and having been, quite very patient, waiting for answers with a hope that there is something to read for fun (not intended to remember since there are already many things to remember in life, such as personal/work usernames and passwords )

hahahahahaa well, seems this question will be neglected... 8)

I'd say it's because you're assuming the only dictator of noise is the location of the ADC's. Nobody knows where to start with your inquiry.

Seems the assumption is about quantity, not location (2 could be used in parallel at lower frequencies, which would favor noise over high frequency). But yes, it's not as if the 5D3 and 6D are identical electrically save the digitization.

 

[jrista]

Sorry to bother the theory about the benefits of having the ADCs incorporated into the sensor, but how do you explain the 6D handling noise better than the 5D mk III when having just one ADC instead of two? it means the 6D has less circuitry to process images but delivers cleaner images than the 5DIII.

6D ADC detail

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/53eba24de4b0c2eda84a2722/562e469fe4b082785ca2762b/562e46a1e4b03c1eab61a7ce/1446387126274/FIXYOURCAMERA-ORG-teardown-Canon-6D-cmos-sensor-267.jpg?format=1500w

Sorry, all sensor gods/or circuit board gods are either busy googling for your question or not be able to find solution to your answer... LOL...

Note: Having seen your question since yesterday, and having been, quite very patient, waiting for answers with a hope that there is something to read for fun (not intended to remember since there are already many things to remember in life, such as personal/work usernames and passwords )

hahahahahaa well, seems this question will be neglected... 8)

I'd say it's because you're assuming the only dictator of noise is the location of the ADC's. Nobody knows where to start with your inquiry.

Ehouli, the 5D III has 8 ADC units. The ADC units are separate independent chips that exist on the bus between the sensor and the DIGIC chips, each of which have 4 input channels. The ADC units spit out four digital channels that are each handled by the DIGIC chips for image processing.

The ADC units are usually the primary source of noise, but that is primarily due to the frequency at which they operate. However the ADC units are not the only source of noise. The primary difference between the 6D and 5D III is dark current noise. The 6D has almost half the dark current of the 5D III, and particularly at higher ISO, that lower dark current results in lower noise. Hence the reason the 6D is lower noise than the 5D III. Read noise between the two is comparable. The 6D is probably able to use ADC units clocked a little slower than the 5D III, which is probably where the small reduction in read noise comes from.

 

[ishdakuteb]

I'd say it's because you're assuming the only dictator of noise is the location of the ADC's. Nobody knows where to start with your inquiry.

Ehouli, the 5D III has 8 ADC units. The ADC units are separate independent chips that exist on the bus between the sensor and the DIGIC chips, each of which have 4 input channels. The ADC units spit out four digital channels that are each handled by the DIGIC chips for image processing.

The ADC units are usually the primary source of noise, but that is primarily due to the frequency at which they operate. However the ADC units are not the only source of noise. The primary difference between the 6D and 5D III is dark current noise. The 6D has almost half the dark current of the 5D III, and particularly at higher ISO, that lower dark current results in lower noise. Hence the reason the 6D is lower noise than the 5D III. Read noise between the two is comparable. The 6D is probably able to use ADC units clocked a little slower than the 5D III, which is probably where the small reduction in read noise comes from.

jrista, i thought that canon 5d mark iii has only two 4-channel adc units... again, i am just reading this for fun, not really interested into study it. but would you mind guiding me to the source that says canon 5d mark iii has 8 adc units?

thanks very much...

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I just bought a couple of 6TB drives to add to my backup...

Side question: how do you connect the drvies? Can you recommend a reliable usb-sata enclosure?

That's a whole different subject, and can be simple or involved. Why not start a thread if you have a specific question.