40mm f2.8 STM or new 50mm f1.8 STM?

[moushu]

Hi all,
daughter is relatively new to photography (in fact is just finishing A-level photography) & is really into studio portraiture and has a 7D body.
I'm thinking of rewarding the end of her studies by introducing her to the world of primes.
As 50mm on a crop pretty much matches the age-old advice of 85mm on full-frame being The Studio Lens, my thinking was going that way, especially with the release of the new 1.8 STM, but I've read a few reviews now saying that the 40mm may be a better lens.
Don't suppose anyone on here has compared the two have they?
Or have any observations on using the 40mm for studio portraiture?
Cheers

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

I still wait for tests controlled the-digital-picture to know for sure. But looking at the samples of 50mm STM so far, it seems to have lower sharpness (in the image corners) when used in F1.8.

But I suppose the 50mm STM will be as sharp as the 40mm, when both are used in F2.8. Accordingly, you should not perceive disadvantages in image quality F2.8 or more stopped down, and gains bonus the possibility to shoot in aperture range F1.8 - F2.8 when not need highly sharp images.

I also think the focal length 50mm best suited for portraits.

 

[TheLaxPlayer]

What lenses does she currently have?

 

[mrzero]

The 50mm 1.8 II is a great beginner portrait prime on crop, so I think I would vote for the new 50mm STM. Plus, I think that focal length would pair nicely with the EF-S 24mm 2.8 pancake (gift #2).

 

[slclick]

Having both, I don't see a reason to sell one or the other. Completely different lenses. That 10mm is quite a wide difference at that focal length spectrum and the pancake is a much better piece of glass when you account for color, contrast and overall IQ. Now, for non distortion portraiture and low light, sure the 50 wins out.

 

[NancyP]

Go for any version of the Plastic Fantastic / Nifty Fifty. Better focal length for traditional portraiture on an APS-C camera . And yes, gift #2 for an APS-C shooter just learning to use primes could be the whatever-the-h*- rhymes-with-24 24mm f/2.8 STM. Personally I learned on a 55mm f/1.4 on a full frame 135 format film camera in the days before zooms, when the kit lens was a 50-55mm lens at f/1.4 to f/2.0.

 

[Orangutan]

whatever-the-h*- rhymes-with-24

J'adore? Or must it be English?

 

[centuaryseries]

whatever-the-h*- rhymes-with-24

J'adore? Or must it be English?

Spilled my coffee! ;D ;D ;D

 

[FTb-n]

The 50mm 1.8 II is a great beginner portrait prime on crop, so I think I would vote for the new 50mm STM. Plus, I think that focal length would pair nicely with the EF-S 24mm 2.8 pancake (gift #2).

+1 on both counts.

The 1.8 will also offer tighter DOF to make the portraits pop more.

 

[Maximilian]

I still wait for tests controlled the-digital-picture to know for sure. But looking at the samples of 50mm STM so far, it seems to have lower sharpness (in the image corners) when used in F1.8.

But I suppose the 50mm STM will be as sharp as the 40mm, when both are used in F2.8. Accordingly, you should not perceive disadvantages in image quality F2.8 or more stopped down, and gains bonus the possibility to shoot in aperture range F1.8 - F2.8 when not need highly sharp images.

I also think the focal length 50mm best suited for portraits.

+1 to all of that, although I don't know the 50 STM yet.

I've been on vacation lately with the small setup of 100D/SL1+40+24 STM pancakes. The 40 STM misses a little bit of reach for really good portrait. But for travel it is a great IQ per weight performer. And the possibility of having f1.8 would be THE reason for me getting the 50 STM for portrait. Of course you cannot expect a Sigma Art or Canon L sharpness performance at that price level.
But it will give your daughter the chance to play with and feel the effects of real thin DOF.
And I am sure that it will be noticeablely better than the nifty fifty, in built and IQ.

The mentioned possibility of adding up the prime setup later with a 24 STM is a really good one.
I just bought it and I am very pleased with its price performance.

 

[mb66energy]

I would like to throw in another alternative:
The EF-S 60mm macro lens, perhaps 2nd hand.

Contra:
* limited to APS-C
* only f/2.8
* USM not as good as STM for video
* price

Pro:
* Distance scale + real manual focus option
* Brilliant IQ straight from f/2.8
* 1:1 capability - allows for close ups (portraiture) without limits
* compact, no extending parts
* Very fast AF
* focal length should be (very) good for portraiture
* price performance ratio

It was my first lens with the 20D 10 years ago. And if I had to choose one lens
to travel with, it would be THE option for ME - with full frame it would be a
5D + 100 Macro.

 

[moushu]

What lenses does she currently have?

Whichever of mine she "borrows"!
Strictly speaking she still only owns a standard kit 18-55, and is using that for portraits, so I'm really hoping she'll be able to see improvements over that from a prime.

But she borrows my 10-22, 70-300L, and I particularly have to lock away the 18-135 STM
She's not taken with the only prime I have, a Sigma 70mm macro, but that's a bit long on a crop for portraits.

 

[KateH]

For portraiture on a 7D, 50mm all the way. Faster and has a more useful FOV. The 40mm is a great lens on full-frame (I love it on my 5D), but a very awkward focal length on APS-C type cameras. My recommendation would be for her to get a 50mm 1.8 and a 24mm 2.8- that's a wonderful 2-lens kit for that camera!

 

[bholliman]

But I suppose the 50mm STM will be as sharp as the 40mm, when both are used in F2.8. Accordingly, you should not perceive disadvantages in image quality F2.8 or more stopped down, and gains bonus the possibility to shoot in aperture range F1.8 - F2.8 when not need highly sharp images.

I also think the focal length 50mm best suited for portraits.

+1 Not only is 50mm a better portrait focal length on a crop body, but having the ability to shoot at wider apertures (even if not razor sharp) opens up greater creative possibilities.

 

[Zv]

I had the same thought and came to the conclusion that the new 50 STM is a better option (for me) as it is longer and opens up to f/1.8 (even if I don't use it wide open it should be OK at f/2 ish). That's a good amount to bokeh for not much money. On crop it would be a lovely little portrait lens.

I had a play around with the 50 STM in a store. Handling wise it feels nice as you can grip it better than the 40. That would prove useful when composing portraits. It still retains an element of discreetness and not far off the ultra slim 40 in size. The focus is smooth and accurate. No more noisy motor. The AF speed though is about the same as the old one but it's more decisive.

Overall I reckon it's a really good first prime.

Edit - coupled with the 24mm STM pancake it would be a sweet two lens combo on crop. The 24 is basically the 40 in crop flavor.

 

[moushu]

But I suppose the 50mm STM will be as sharp as the 40mm, when both are used in F2.8. Accordingly, you should not perceive disadvantages in image quality F2.8 or more stopped down, and gains bonus the possibility to shoot in aperture range F1.8 - F2.8 when not need highly sharp images.

I also think the focal length 50mm best suited for portraits.

+1 Not only is 50mm a better portrait focal length on a crop body, but having the ability to shoot at wider apertures (even if not razor sharp) opens up greater creative possibilities.

Thanks all, it looks like most are coming down in favour of the 50 on a crop.
Now all I need to need is convince her highness that a prime isn't a limiting factor, as really she's angling for a 18-135 of her own..
However, another fly in the chardonnay is that already in her relatively brief dalliance she's already shot 3 weddings, admittedly small-scale affairs, and has enjoyed it (& been successful), so I know she has her mind on the flexibility of a zoom for future events (to help finance the next 3 years at Uni), so I suspect she'll not be seeing the usefulness of a prime in that circumstance.
Interesting conversations ahead..

Also, I'm not made of money, so she's only getting one lens, as I have my own photography habit to finance

 

[Maximilian]

Here are the lens image quality results for the 50 STM:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=105&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=1&LensComp=989&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=1

Impressive improvement in the center compared to the old 50/1.8 II. If this is not a good new against bad old sample comparison I must say I am very surprised to see so much difference. If this is "standard" I'd say "well done, Canon!".

 

[Maximilian]

And here a comparison to the 40 STM:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=810&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=989&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=2

At f2.8 the 50 STM is looking even better in the center with just a little drop to the corners.

moushu, IMHO now it is clear which one to choose.

Tell us about your daughters reaction and maybe post some of her pictures here if she likes to.

 

[mrzero]

Thanks all, it looks like most are coming down in favour of the 50 on a crop.
Now all I need to need is convince her highness that a prime isn't a limiting factor, as really she's angling for a 18-135 of her own..
However, another fly in the chardonnay is that already in her relatively brief dalliance she's already shot 3 weddings, admittedly small-scale affairs, and has enjoyed it (& been successful), so I know she has her mind on the flexibility of a zoom for future events (to help finance the next 3 years at Uni), so I suspect she'll not be seeing the usefulness of a prime in that circumstance.
Interesting conversations ahead..

Also, I'm not made of money, so she's only getting one lens, as I have my own photography habit to finance

I can't imagine the need for more than one 18-135 in any household. Give her the 50mm STM, teach her how to use AV mode with auto ISO (within reason), and tell her to shoot it between 1.8 and 2.8 for a while. She'll probably love it!

 

[Maximilian]

...
Now all I need to need is convince her highness that a prime isn't a limiting factor...

If she's really into photography and did already do some weddings I think she'll really fast realizes that a zoom is mor limiting than a wider aperture.

Also, I'm not made of money, so she's only getting one lens, as I have my own photography habit to finance

I think the second lens recommendation was for something sometime later on. not at the same time.
And until then, there could be some money saved (maybe it'll be a shared lens, and a few more battles for lenses )