50mp Cameras Coming in March [CR1]

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Quote from: Marsu42
As for poor dynamic range: For the a lot of people in the targeted audience (landscape and studio) ~11.5ev is fine, you only need higher dr if you cannot bracket and/or shoot movement. Otherwise higher dr is nice to have, but not essential - or there wouldn't be any Canon shooters left even now.

You obviously dont speak for the majority. The current 36MP Sony sensor also in the Nikon D800 is 14ev and in cinematography / video 14ev is still not enough. Plenty of situations in landscape where more DR would be useful particularly in strong sun situations with deep shade.

Nope. He speaks or the MAJORITY. Hence why Canon leads the market.
[/quote]

Marketing leading and best tech or providing most exactly what people want are very often not so tightly correlated as you imply, not at all. And in this case there are tons of side variables that completely toss the correlation.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

You obviously dont speak for the majority. The current 36MP Sony sensor also in the Nikon D800 is 14ev and in cinematography / video 14ev is still not enough. Plenty of situations in landscape where more DR would be useful particularly in strong sun situations with deep shade.

I have more than 300,000 images under management in Lightroom. I went looking for high-DR situations shot at base ISO. I was not able to find a single image where my Canon sensors didn't have sufficient DR AND 1-2 more stops would have made the difference. I found one situation shot at base ISO where 15-20 more stops would have done it, but not 1-2, and that was the only situation I found where I couldn't get enough DR at base ISO.

On the other hand, I have thousands of high-ISO shots where DR was severely constrained.

I looked through shots from a single trip and found a lot scenarios where 2-3 would help. All it takes is something as simple as shooting into a dappled forest!

 

[Marsu42]

Don't know anyone personally that has recently bought Canon for IQ purposes.

Well, I don't know how many people you know personally, but I'd wager that almost all people buying a 6d (including me) buy this Canon for iq purposes.

The thing is, gimmicks will sell to the masses, more than IQ.

I'm in agreement that I'd exchange gps/wifi on my 6d even for a half-decent af system any day, but you can see the mentioned "gimmicks" as "value". There are gps/wifi addons for the 5d3/... for a reason, obviously there's a market for them. If you get them included in your camera by default, you're saving lots of €€€.

Last not least, what's a "gimmick" or not is defined by personal preference. Is a back wheel a gimmick? top lcd? In-camera hdr? You get the picture: Except for the shutter button and card slot, you can say almost everything is a gimmick if you don't like it.

 

[Loswr]

Moiré never happens with natural subjects, except if you're a bug photographer.

I guess you don't have much experience shooting nature. :

 

[jeffa4444]

I would wager many people who bought the Canon 6d did so to get into full-frame not because of "gimmicks" I certainly did. That said those "gimmicks" have come in really handy if like me you mainly do landscape photography.
The app on my iPhone allows contactless remote shooting with live view it really is simple to set-up and even simplier to use. Secondly the GPS allows you to know exactly where you are I was in Snowdonia in the Fall and many of the hills & moutains I didnt know the name of but once downloaded I was able to know exactly what the names were so suddenly those "gimmicks" became very useful just like a feature in your iPhone when you take a picture so why not an expensive camera costing $$$$$.
Ironically many std. features in all high end stills cameras Ive used less yet they are not seen as "gimmicks".

 

[Marsu42]

The app on my iPhone allows contactless remote shooting with live view it really is simple to set-up and even simplier to use. Secondly the GPS allows you to know exactly where you are I was in Snowdonia in the Fall and many of the hills & moutains I didnt know the name of but once downloaded I was able to know exactly what the names were so suddenly those "gimmicks" became very useful just like a feature in your iPhone when you take a picture so why not an expensive camera costing $$$$$.

My personal definition of "gimmick" would be "feature that is easily substituted by other means".

This includes gps, as a dedicated tracker in your pocket lasts longer, has no/less warm-up time and is more precise - even Lightroom includes an option to attach the tracklog to the pictures. As for wifi, well, there are eye-fi cards, and unfortunately Canon's wifi implementation is very mediocre (try to connect your Laptop to the camera). Definitely on the gimmick list is in-camera hdr as this is done better in real post with dedicated software.

 

[Loswr]

Definitely on the gimmick list is in-camera hdr as this is done better in real post with dedicated software.

By that logic, in-camera JPG conversion is also a 'gimmick'.

 

[jeffa4444]

For those the "rubbished" the idea of more sensitivity / DR and going beyond the human eye I encourage you to go to Image Sensor World blog and go to November 25th and read the Sony investor update.

 

[Lee Jay]

For those the "rubbished" the idea of more sensitivity / DR and going beyond the human eye I encourage you to go to Image Sensor World blog and go to November 25th and read the Sony investor update.

Like the slide entitled, "Concentrate on expanding market for mobile, IP Security cameras and automotive"?

 

[gsealy]

In thinking about it, if I had $5K to spend I would do so on an high end lens like the Zeiss Otus 85mm rather than upgrading my 5DIII. My reasoning is that such a lens makes every one of my cameras instantly better. There is no doubt of this. That even includes my IDs II (that I use for time lapse sequences and landscape) and my 650D. It makes my videos better too. If I were to buy a 5DIV or or whatever they call it in the future or a IDx when the price drops, then that lens would make those cameras better too. Cameras will come and go on a fairly short 3-4 year life cycle because Canon and other manufacturers have to make a profit. But a high quality lens has a much, much longer life cycle.

 

[Lee Jay]

In thinking about it, if I had $5K to spend I would do so on an high end lens like the Zeiss Otus 85mm rather than upgrading my 5DIII. My reasoning is that such a lens makes every one of my cameras instantly better. There is no doubt of this. That even includes my IDs II (that I use for time lapse sequences and landscape) and my 650D. It makes my videos better too. If I were to buy a 5DIV or or whatever they call it in the future or a IDx when the price drops, then that lens would make those cameras better too. Cameras will come and go on a fairly short 3-4 year life cycle because Canon and other manufacturers have to make a profit. But a high quality lens has a much, much longer life cycle.

I've had my cameras for 9 and 10 years. I've only had one lens that long.

 

[Marsu42]

Definitely on the gimmick list is in-camera hdr as this is done better in real post with dedicated software.

By that logic, in-camera JPG conversion is also a 'gimmick'.

No, because you cannot "easily substitute" the reduction in card space and jpeg makes sense if you need sooc pictures asap.

But the general point is - I am in absolute agreement with you on this - that one's personal wishes are immaterial for Canon's big market and it's not really possible to separate "real features" and "gimmicks". Fortunately (unlike Sonikon) Canon doesn't concentrate on spec comparisons, i.e. their aim isn't to have the longest feature list.

 

[3kramd5]

My personal definition of "gimmick" would be "feature that is easily substituted by other means".

Can't say I agree. Your definition of a gimmick is my definition of a convenience.

A gimmick must be of marginal value. To me, GPS in a camera is gimmicky, but not because I can carry one in my pocket. It's a popular acronym to put on a box to gather the attention of shoppers. "Oh look Susan, this one has GPS." Gimmick (to me).

But some things which I initially view and gimmicky quickly lose that stigma. I thought fingerprint readers on cellphones were gimmicks, until I started using a phone which has one. Maybe the same would be true if I had an SLR with GPS (though I have the geotagging in my phone disabled, so I doubt it).

In thinking about it, if I had $5K to spend I would do so on an high end lens like the Zeiss Otus 85mm rather than upgrading my 5DIII. ... But a high quality lens has a much, much longer life cycle.

I've had my cameras for 9 and 10 years. I've only had one lens that long.

I'm betting none of the lenses you got rid of were on par, quality wise, with an Otus.

 

[privatebydesign]

I've had my cameras for 9 and 10 years. I've only had one lens that long.

And that helps explain some of the completely irrelevant extrapolations you come out with so often.

 

[Lee Jay]

I've had my cameras for 9 and 10 years. I've only had one lens that long.

And that helps explain some of the completely irrelevant extrapolations you come out with so often.

I have newer cameras too, and I have astro stuff. I have pixels from 8.2 microns to 1 micron and focal lengths from 15mm fisheye to 5600mm.

There's nothing wrong with my testing and I've done loads and loads of it for many different purposes.

 

[Marsu42]

Oh I don't know about that. Do you have some examples?

I usually don't go for the "I double-dare you to prove this and that" requests, but once a link to a spec compariosn that is the first google hit and thus should be rather important for sales. Somehow, Sonikon always manages to end up with a longer "advantages" list than Canon, nonsensical as it might be.

http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon-EOS-6D-vs-Nikon-D610

 

[Loswr]

Definitely on the gimmick list is in-camera hdr as this is done better in real post with dedicated software.

By that logic, in-camera JPG conversion is also a 'gimmick'.

No, because you cannot "easily substitute" the reduction in card space and jpeg makes sense if you need sooc pictures asap.

Is selecting sRAW from the menu really all that difficult? In-camera HDR then makes sense if you need SOOC HDR pictures ASAP.

 

[jeffa4444]

For those the "rubbished" the idea of more sensitivity / DR and going beyond the human eye I encourage you to go to Image Sensor World blog and go to November 25th and read the Sony investor update.

Like the slide entitled, "Concentrate on expanding market for mobile, IP Security cameras and automotive"?

Thats because that is where all the current growth is. The slides show DSLR sales falling however much of the technology is scaleable and the historical level of DSLRs annually was 8M globally. Given the increase in the global middle class 10M seems a reasonable "average" on a go forwards basis.
I know from our own research that colorimagery and DR are both areas where improvements will be made over the next few years.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Marsu42, I'm with you on these comments. As a knowledgeable "beginner" and two years with the 6D, with its shortcomings, I don't regret the purchase and purchase price for a millisecond. I've gotten many shots that people rave about in spite of its AF and FPS. The 300 2.8 II and the 70-200 2.8 II were much more important to me than the camera. However, I'm now on the fence for a new Canon body and all this talk is a lot of fun to follow so that my next purchase will be the correct one. It's Canon for me.

Leave out wifi everyone goes ballistic, put it in everyone criticizes - oops it's not really everyone, just - some who are very vocal - now I know but two years ago I was really perplexed. CR has been very helpful to me and all opinions are useful and worth considering.

Jack

 

[erjlphoto]

Oh I don't know about that. Do you have some examples?

I usually don't go for the "I double-dare you to prove this and that" requests, but once a link to a spec compariosn that is the first google hit and thus should be rather important for sales. Somehow, Sonikon always manages to end up with a longer "advantages" list than Canon, nonsensical as it might be.


http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon-EOS-6D-vs-Nikon-D610

Yep, buuuuut consider the real world definition of EXPERTS..."An unknown quantity of elongated drips."

Had an early D600 got a 6D and for me it is a far better camera. While I traded up, the Canon kit 24-105L is light years ahead of Nikon's bundled lens (think they have upgraded it since my sally with them).