5D iii with 135 mm 85 mm 50 mm wedding in servo poor focus any ideas?

[Besisika]

I am wonderring if you can replicate the situation, if yes, compare them with 100mm L (just rent it if you don't have one).
I shoot both boxing and wedding. For boxing 135 at f2 and 85l both 1.2 and 2 work and I get above 80% keeper on 5d MK iii. I struggled too during wedding dances. It is darker. I tried the 100mmL macro and it performs much better. I don't know if it is the lenses I have but I would try.
I moved up to 1DX and I get better results using the same technique and same config (focus first). I still shoot with the 100L during wedding dance and bouquet tossing, though. I shoot burst, first the throwing bride then the ladies catching the bouquet so I can't take a chance. The camera doesn't choke with the macro and the flashes don't miss.
Maybe it is worth a try for you.

 

[jasonsim]

Yep. My experience too. I used to shoot indoor ice skating with a 5D III and 135mm f/2. Too slow to keep up. The 1Dx does a little better with the 135mm f/2L, but not much. To get the best Servo performance with your 5D III you need to use 24-70mm f/2.8L II and 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II.

Hi there.
I was shooting a wedding yesterday. 5d iii worked great with one major exception. When shooting couples dancing (iso around 5000 1/200 s ). it was not able to deliver a sharp image (maybe one sharp in 10 shots) lenses used 50 f/1.4 , 85 f/1.8, 135 f/2L and 16-35 f/2.8 L II. Servo mode tried differnet cases different settings (points, first image priority etc). It was not a motion blur. Does anyone have an experience working with these lenses in servo? I mean I tried everything with no result. Are these lenses simply too slow for tracking? Was it too dark? Thanks.

 

[Marsu42]

I am wonderring if you can replicate the situation, if yes, compare them with 100mm L (just rent it if you don't have one). I shoot both boxing and wedding. For boxing 135 at f2 and 85l both 1.2 and 2 work and I get above 80% keeper on 5d MK iii. I struggled too during wedding dances. It is darker. I tried the 100mmL macro and it performs much better.

Interesting, looking at the 100L performance on 6d I really didn't expect that as the macro lens af speed is crawling slow. On the other hand, this might be the very reason it performs ok in difficult situations vs. standard lenses like 135L? The 85L seems to have to move too much glass to be a fast af performer.

 

[lukemike]

These are tricky lenses to master and it takes a number of years to fully get the best out of them. So I wouldn't expect a fast prime newbie to pick a set up....rock up to a wedding / paid gig and expect stellar results. This is why my 2nd photographer grew into her primes proportionately to her skill growth in the wedding industry.
...

May agree with you that getting the right photo composition or light takes years to master. But not the focus. If getting a sharp image from a given lens takes years to master it is a crappy lens that does not work right. It's simply not. What's the point of getting around its limitations if you can get a product that does not have them. It took me one day to master 400 f/2.8 on D4 or 70-200 f/2.8 IS II on 7D, Most of the images were sharp in most conditions. What struck me is that the setup that I assumed will work spot on in focus dept. (5D and theses lenses) did not. Saying it's the way things are is living in the past and making life more complicated.

Hi Lukemke.
We're you using Back Button Focus? Either way have a look at this posting for more ideas on problems with AIServo focus.
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=20883.0

Cheers Graham.

Yes - af-on button on the back for focusing, shutter release button only for matering and shutter.

Yes, indeed, was it too dark? Your 5d3 af works up to -2LV, what was your light value (exposure time, aperture, iso of some shots)?

Looking at the shots that may be the reason. How do you calculate Light Value?

i can say without any reservations it's not the lenses. whatever you use won't net you 100% keepers, but unless something silly is happening you should be getting something north of 80%. ... . i really only struggle when it's so dark i can't get anything out of it. then i switch to MF and shoot it up. sometimes it is just silly dark. i'd like to know what aperture values you were using, and maybe a rough estimate of shooting distance. either that was just to much of an ask, your 5d settings are funny, or it's defective. you liked what the 1dx could do, was that a wedding, or people running around on a sunny day?

ISO around 5000 exp time 1/100 - 1/200, what do you think? 85@ f/2.0, 135@f/2.0, 50@f/2. Images properly exposed, no motion blur. Distance: different, usualy to get a couple in the frame whole body or waist up.

 

[Marsu42]

Looking at the shots that may be the reason. How do you calculate Light Value?

-2LV on 5d3 is the "stops working" stage, but it might get much slower near that dim light. For further information,
just ask KR ... http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/ev.htm

 

[Maximilian]

What was your depth of field?
...
Maybe you were shooting at a DOF too shallow

I guess this was the point. What aperture were you shooting with?
If wide open, I suppose it was a DOF problem with the dancers moving OOF during shutter release.

In such conditions I swich to M mode with auto ISO (enhanced, if needed) to have full control of aperture and shutter. And then I have to close the aperture as much as needed.
Normally this works. But sometimes it is just to dark for the AF.

 

[djh901]

I had all kinds of problems with my 5D3 when I first got it. Dont know if this helps but I put it back in default *factory setting* several times. Then went back and reset everything. Never had anymore focus problems. Also if one little software switch is in the wrong setting the camera will focus wrong.

 

[Maximilian]

something else, not mentioned yet (if I didn't miss it):
Did you AFMA the used lenses?

 

[jaayres20]

I didn't take the time to read the other posts so if this has already been mentioned then I am sorry. Servo mode is not a great idea for a dark first dance. I am not confident in my 1DX having the best success for that either. You should always avoid using that when it is dark if possible. Always use one shot so that the AF assist beam on the flash will help you focus. I have a 1DX and 5D3 and even though they have great AF performance, it is not good enough to shoot sharp images consistently in the dark. The AF assist beam will work wonders for you, but is only available in one shot focus drive mode. Also, focus on something light, like the grooms white shirt next to his black jacket. Also use the center AF points. They are the most sensitive.

 

[gsealy]

IMO with it being a critical 'once only' situation then it is best to calculate a good DOF beforehand and set up the camera appropriately. Yes, it is great to get those great narrow DOF bokeh shots, but the risks are higher too. And additionally, counting on a chip in the camera's processor is risky too. It could decide to focus on anything!

 

[jdramirez]

If he was at a distance, the dof would be greater... closer to the subject... thinner. So yes... what aperture was he shooting at, but also how far with each lens.

What was your depth of field?
...
Maybe you were shooting at a DOF too shallow

I guess this was the point. What aperture were you shooting with?
If wide open, I suppose it was a DOF problem with the dancers moving OOF during shutter release.

In such conditions I swich to M mode with auto ISO (enhanced, if needed) to have full control of aperture and shutter. And then I have to close the aperture as much as needed.
Normally this works. But sometimes it is just to dark for the AF.

 

[RyanSandsPhotography]

I shoot with a Canon 5d mark iii at my weddings and I can tell you first hand that servo mode isn't going to help you much with "dancing" shots during the reception. Your better off in one shot mode with only cross type points turned on. Use a cluster of 9 points that are near your subjects face and with a good lens your going to nail your focus almost 100% of the time. Now I use the Canon 24-70 2.8 ii and the Canon 70-200 f2.8 is ii. These new lenses were built to work perfectly with the 5d mark iii's new focus system. I've rented and used all the lenses you mentioned. The 50L is the worst in my opinion of the 3. Good luck getting any decent shots with that thing in poor light..I wouldn't even bother using it. The 135L can handle itself but 135mm is too long for dance shots when your moving about the dance floor ducking in and out of guests. The 85 1.8 isn't too bad of a performer in good light but again dance floors are usually dark so good luck. If you want to cover dancing easily you want a good general zoom like the new 24-70 ii. The 16-35 ii has issues with locking focus in low light and it's not particularly sharp at 2.8. You would have to stop down to f4 to get any decent sharpness out of it.

I'm not sure why others have said this but don't even bother with the 6D. It's focus system is severally lacking and your 5d mark iii is in a complete differently league.

I'm not sure if your using on camera flash but your going to want that for the focus assist beam that it provides. If it were me I wouldn't waste time shooting with primes on the dance floor and go with something more versatile like a standard zoom. With the right lighting setup you should be at around 800-1000 ISO with a 160th-200th shutter speed at f-stop 2.8-3.5 on manual mode.

 

[lukemike]

Thanks Ryan, that pretty much answers all my questions. 5D III isn't mine, I'm currently changing my gear and I'm considering 5d III, 1dx or d4. By saying "Use a cluster of 9 points that are near your subjects face and with a good lens your going to nail your focus almost 100% of the time" do mean one shot or servo mode?
Thanks.

I shoot with a Canon 5d mark iii at my weddings and I can tell you first hand that servo mode isn't going to help you much with "dancing" shots during the reception. Your better off in one shot mode with only cross type points turned on. Use a cluster of 9 points that are near your subjects face and with a good lens your going to nail your focus almost 100% of the time. Now I use the Canon 24-70 2.8 ii and the Canon 70-200 f2.8 is ii. These new lenses were built to work perfectly with the 5d mark iii's new focus system. I've rented and used all the lenses you mentioned. The 50L is the worst in my opinion of the 3. Good luck getting any decent shots with that thing in poor light..I wouldn't even bother using it. The 135L can handle itself but 135mm is too long for dance shots when your moving about the dance floor ducking in and out of guests. The 85 1.8 isn't too bad of a performer in good light but again dance floors are usually dark so good luck. If you want to cover dancing easily you want a good general zoom like the new 24-70 ii. The 16-35 ii has issues with locking focus in low light and it's not particularly sharp at 2.8. You would have to stop down to f4 to get any decent sharpness out of it.

I'm not sure why others have said this but don't even bother with the 6D. It's focus system is severally lacking and your 5d mark iii is in a complete differently league.

I'm not sure if your using on camera flash but your going to want that for the focus assist beam that it provides. If it were me I wouldn't waste time shooting with primes on the dance floor and go with something more versatile like a standard zoom. With the right lighting setup you should be at around 800-1000 ISO with a 160th-200th shutter speed at f-stop 2.8-3.5 on manual mode.

 

[RyanSandsPhotography]

Luke you would be in one shot mode. And yes, do yourself a huge favor and save up for the 5d mark iii. Unfortunately for Canon the only two good focusing systems in their entire lineup are the ones in the 5d mark iii and 1Dx. While the 1Dx is an amazing camera it is just overkill for weddings and events when first starting out. Although I do plan on purchasing one as my next camera to compliment my 5d iii it would be solely for gear lust and not because I need it to get the job done. You could easily own two 5d mark iii cameras for your wedding bodies and never ever miss the 1Dx. Just don't ever pick up a 1Dx in the store and play with it haha...then you will have serious gear lust for that thing lol.