5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus
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There is another thread on this here. This is interesting.
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=10706.45
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=10706.45
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Esp since my only reason for the mk3 over the mk2 was the autofocus....there is not a single other upgrade on the
new camera that is essential for me....the files still have horrible shadow noise if you underexpose even a little.
new camera that is essential for me....the files still have horrible shadow noise if you underexpose even a little.
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RustyTheGeek said:
Interesting note about Canon's forum: There is a list of the most highly rated ("kudos") posts. I went in and gave KUDOS to all the postings in that thread, and it was enough to fill 4 of the top 5 posts with the thread about 5D3 + 600 exrt = slower focus.
If anyone else wants to go give KUDOS to the postings and replies on that thread, it will keep it "front page news" on the Canon forum.
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ScottyP said:
If you did that, you should have come across this message: "Kudos Flood: You have exceeded the limit of 10 kudoed messages per minute." ... so just select the 10 messages that make the most sense to you. I think Canon should react to this issue, and even though I don't have a 5d3 yet I think it is ok to bump the thread for all you posh 5d3 owners :->
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Marsu42 said:ScottyP said:
If you did that, you should have come across this message: "Kudos Flood: You have exceeded the limit of 10 kudoed messages per minute." ... so just select the 10 messages that make the most sense to you. I think Canon should react to this issue, and even though I don't have a 5d3 yet I think it is ok to bump the thread for all you posh 5d3 owners :->
I think I missed getting over-Kudoed by dumb luck. I kudoed several slowly as I read it over the weekend, then I went back later Sunday and handed out the rest, and again this afternoon.
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Private by Design:
"r, so don't underexpose a little, that is what exposure compensation is for.
With regards the 5D MkIII and low light/AF assist beam performance, I will be at a function tonight where I will be able to compare it to my 1Ds MkIII and I intend to take a couple of 600EX-RT's just because of this thread. Sure I will only get to use one camera, but I am wondering at what EV people are starting to get issues, lets face it, one persons extreme low light is another persons bright! Lets pin down EV first."
This kind of post is uncalled for as well as being rude and ignorant! Anybody who shoots events knows you can't nail your exposure everytime...sometimes ettl really underexposes randomly...btw, I use ex comp constantly during a day's shoot...invariably the shot you want the most turns out to be off. Shooting manually is
no solution either as you car deally with constantly moving subjects. Please stick to the topic at hand....a real
issue which many of us are experiencing.
"r, so don't underexpose a little, that is what exposure compensation is for.
With regards the 5D MkIII and low light/AF assist beam performance, I will be at a function tonight where I will be able to compare it to my 1Ds MkIII and I intend to take a couple of 600EX-RT's just because of this thread. Sure I will only get to use one camera, but I am wondering at what EV people are starting to get issues, lets face it, one persons extreme low light is another persons bright! Lets pin down EV first."
This kind of post is uncalled for as well as being rude and ignorant! Anybody who shoots events knows you can't nail your exposure everytime...sometimes ettl really underexposes randomly...btw, I use ex comp constantly during a day's shoot...invariably the shot you want the most turns out to be off. Shooting manually is
no solution either as you car deally with constantly moving subjects. Please stick to the topic at hand....a real
issue which many of us are experiencing.
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privatebydesign said:
Indeed, and another skill has been to deal with the limitation of equipment - and given a constantly changing high dr scene and a limited dr sensor I'd rather underexpose than end up with blown highlights. But I know seasoned photogs say you just need experience and then take one shot .. but somehow I am still doubtful, because one of these guys recently told me he never needs to crop his shots because he always frames them perfectly in the vf. With a prime. Without moving a step. Yeah, right - sounds like spreading fishermens' tales to me.
privatebydesign said:
To post something on topic: Since few people nowadays run around with lightmeters (shame, what happened to the good ol' ways?) the "Light Value" data is inside the files, you can get the information for example using exiftool. Or just send the raw to Canon ... the subject distance is in there, too and multiple other data that might matter.
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privatebydesign said:
Interesting about Nikon (though I know they use the "active d lighting" vs canon's htp). You are certainly correct that Canon raw files have great potential for highlight recovery, I do it all the time and that's because I shoot raw, but of course only up to a point. But my experience with outdoors action scenes shooting against the sun @high iso (= low dr) is that when downsizing for web you can always get around low shadow resolution, but clipped highlights stay clipped highlights.
privatebydesign said:
But not as precise as the data in the file which has one decimal place ... and I think the lv value in the file might not be biased by your selected metering (spot, ...), but I have to admit that I don't know that for sure. Plus as I wrote above the file has the subject distance which seems to be vital to the problem.
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privatebydesign said:
Or how slow exactly "slow" is in seconds
... but really it shouldn't be that hard for Canon to reproduce if they set their mind on it ... or they already have and discovered they won't be able to fix it? Anyway, I hope the matter gets cleared up before I finally decide if to get the 6d or 5d3 :-oprivatebydesign said:
On the newer lenses 70-300L and 100L it's indeed precise, at least for the shots I had a look at.
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privateby design.....
Just coming back to this thread...lets not get off about how to properly expose a file...it is really off topic.....I
can tell you in a specific case....I took a candid of two women...one caucasian and on very dark afroamerican...the
caucasian was properly exposed....the other way under....bringing here back up left an incredible amount of noise...this was with flash at iso 400. I also know that there are noise problems at lower isos even with proper
exposure.
Anyhow....the focusing problem with AF assist occurs at almost any ev....I haven't verified this in bright
sunlight yet....but I was shooting headshots at a local hospital yesterday in bright interior lighting....now I use
my 600 rt's in group mode with 4 lights total....the commander light being on the camera. I have shut off the flash from the commander...but kept the af light....thing would hunt to focus on person's face using one of the
cross sensors in the vertical quadrant (upper right in viewfinder). When I shut of the af assist...it was definitely
faster, but not as fast as my Mark2, which I had with me to compare.
Just coming back to this thread...lets not get off about how to properly expose a file...it is really off topic.....I
can tell you in a specific case....I took a candid of two women...one caucasian and on very dark afroamerican...the
caucasian was properly exposed....the other way under....bringing here back up left an incredible amount of noise...this was with flash at iso 400. I also know that there are noise problems at lower isos even with proper
exposure.
Anyhow....the focusing problem with AF assist occurs at almost any ev....I haven't verified this in bright
sunlight yet....but I was shooting headshots at a local hospital yesterday in bright interior lighting....now I use
my 600 rt's in group mode with 4 lights total....the commander light being on the camera. I have shut off the flash from the commander...but kept the af light....thing would hunt to focus on person's face using one of the
cross sensors in the vertical quadrant (upper right in viewfinder). When I shut of the af assist...it was definitely
faster, but not as fast as my Mark2, which I had with me to compare.
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echelonphoto said:
Sounds like what I was dealing with. I couldn't get focus lock in regular indoor room light for several seconds. It was a joke... on me. After I returned the camera for dealer exchange for a new replacement (not a refurb), the AF problem seems to be gone. I was really worried that Canon had somehow totally screwed up the AF design but I guess there are just a lot of cameras out there with this AF problem that likely isn't a design problem, it's a QA problem on the assembly line(?). I guess.
As time moves forward, there seem to be TWO SIDES...
- Those that DON'T HAVE AF PROBLEMS and
- Those that DO HAVE AF PROBLEMS.
I feel like I thankfully moved from the DO to the DON'T side. Don't waste time trying to fix it yourself or work around it. See what Canon will do for you and let us know how it goes!!
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dlleno said:
I appreciate your thanks dlleno. No offense but honestly, this is really bad to know.
I wish this thread didn't even exist and I had all the hours back in my life that I spent trying to figure this out and dealing with it. I'm sure the others feel the same way. It is a relief that it came to a positive end though. Thanks to this forum, I was able to return it for exchange instead of having to wait and wait dealing with a warranty repair. If I (we) can help someone else come to the same conclusion, that's good.
Cheers!
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I'm tracking you -- this is bad for the aparent QC during manufacturing, but outstanding information re: how to resolve this. I suspect the story is not ended yet though - Canon technical support told me that the AF assist beam is not supported with this combination (5D3 and 600ex), and one wonders why that would be and what unofficial or official result will come about. Maybe they fixed it silently without acknowledging the issue.
So, to bring clarity: you're saying your 5D3 uses the AF assist beam just fine with half-pressed shutter, or that it focuses great in low light when you press the shutter all the way down.
now then, bring me up to speed or refer me to a previous post I've overlooked: What was it about this forum that enabled the "return" versus repair option?
So, to bring clarity: you're saying your 5D3 uses the AF assist beam just fine with half-pressed shutter, or that it focuses great in low light when you press the shutter all the way down.
now then, bring me up to speed or refer me to a previous post I've overlooked: What was it about this forum that enabled the "return" versus repair option?
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dlleno - Go back in this thread to page 9 and you'll see the update I posted about how the replacement 5D3 AF seems to be working for me now. Look back further and you'll see several posts by me and others discussing the problem before that.
Marsu42 - my guess is that perhaps dlleno spoke with a misinformed tech rep. Who knows? I find that statement hard to believe as well. For that matter, how can any fairly recent/decent Canon brand flash be 'not supported' on a Canon camera? If new Canon flash units (worth $600 each) aren't supported on Canon cameras (worth $3500), then I guess I'll just go buy cheap Chinese knockoffs that likely work better anyway!! Dammit. So there!
Marsu42 - my guess is that perhaps dlleno spoke with a misinformed tech rep. Who knows? I find that statement hard to believe as well. For that matter, how can any fairly recent/decent Canon brand flash be 'not supported' on a Canon camera? If new Canon flash units (worth $600 each) aren't supported on Canon cameras (worth $3500), then I guess I'll just go buy cheap Chinese knockoffs that likely work better anyway!! Dammit. So there!
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I said I would compare my 5d3 with 430exii VS 1dx with same 430exii in very low light....
Bottom line, the 430exii didn't work on the 5d3. In a very dark basement, it couldn't/wouldn't acquire focus...several OOF shots later I put the 1dx on with the same flash. It worked like a charm, not a single problem....took maybe 1/2 sec to acquire focus in the exact same dark basement.....used the 24-105 for both.
One thing I noticed is that the AF beam didn't even work on the 5d3. I have noticed this "random" issue in the past where the beam works/or doesn't work for no apparent reason with the 5d3.
So there's my simple and quick test.
Bottom line, the 430exii didn't work on the 5d3. In a very dark basement, it couldn't/wouldn't acquire focus...several OOF shots later I put the 1dx on with the same flash. It worked like a charm, not a single problem....took maybe 1/2 sec to acquire focus in the exact same dark basement.....used the 24-105 for both.
One thing I noticed is that the AF beam didn't even work on the 5d3. I have noticed this "random" issue in the past where the beam works/or doesn't work for no apparent reason with the 5d3.
So there's my simple and quick test.
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So I wonder what it actual problem is?? Is it firmware, hardware or those drunk assembly line workers again, turning capacitor #651-A (and sometimes B!) around on every 5th AF board just to screw with us?
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