5D3 may not have real 1DX AF

[V8Beast]

Even my old 1D mk1 AF was fast and accurate. it just worked.

Precisely. It's easy to get hung up on specs, but ultimately all that matters is how well the AF works for a given user's shooting needs. The 1DMKII's AF is ancient by today's standards but it flat out works. Some have even called it legendary Even if the 5DIII's AF isn't the exact same system as in the 1Dx, with 61 points it stands to be a substantial improvement over the 5DII.

 

[Loswr]

Even if the 5DIII's AF isn't the exact same system as in the 1Dx, with 61 points it stands to be a substantial improvement over the 5DII.

Yeah, but that's a pretty low bar...

 

[V8Beast]

Depends on the situation. The f/2.8 points (and f/4 points, to a lesser degree) are more accurate, but also slower. So, AI Servo AF actually uses mostly f/5.6 sensor lines.

That's some pretty interesting info. Does that only apply to the 1D2/1Ds2, or all Canon bodies? The shooting scenarios I'm referring to are almost always in AI Servo (panning or freezing action of subject moving through frame), so it sound like the slower glass wouldn't hurt AF performance as much?

 

[Loswr]

Depends on the situation. The f/2.8 points (and f/4 points, to a lesser degree) are more accurate, but also slower. So, AI Servo AF actually uses mostly f/5.6 sensor lines.

That's some pretty interesting info. Does that only apply to the 1D2/1Ds2, or all Canon bodies? The shooting scenarios I'm referring to are almost always in AI Servo (panning or freezing action of subject moving through frame), so it sound like the slower glass wouldn't hurt AF performance as much?

It applies to all bodies. Even with faster lenses in One Shot, the camera will try to use the f/5.6 line/cross first, then refine the focus with the faster line/cross. I suspect that the AF system will try to refine focus with the f/2.8 point(s), if the action is slow enough (and assuming the lens is f/2.8), but I'm not certain.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I doubt seriously Canon is going to put the same AF system in the 5dIII/x as they are in the 1dx. They made that mistake with when they put the 1d3s sensor in the 5d...absolutey killed the 3's sales.

I'd place my money on a dumbed-down system. After all, if they are marketing it towards weddings/portraits - it doesn't need the 1dx AF system.

Yeah but then they start looking even weaker compared to Nikon. At some point a few too many customers are going to decide that Canon cares 100% only about internal market segmentation and crippling every last little thing they think they can possibly get away with and Nikon may start becoming happier.

A don't forget they aren't giving 5 series users a 12.7 to 21.2 jump this time just a .08 jump so what are they going to give them if not truly top of the line AF and some fast fps?? video without moire I guess, but even the 70D will surely have that.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Not sure how much of an issue this will be in real-world shooting situations. I'm all for having a ton of cross sensors. That said, with a 70-300L attached to my old 1DMKIIn, only the center AF point functions as a cross sensor, but it still tracks fast action like nobody's business. I'd rate it above the 7D.

Exactly, you'd rate it above the 7D. What if this is just 7D-level or worse expanded to 61pts. Who needs that. After 3.5 years and to last another 3 years we don't need some dumb AF system that a more than a decade old system will still beat when it really comes down to it.

Now maybe it will work very well, but just in case not, better fill the net with rants that get Canon's attention early than after when it is too late.

 

[Flake]

Far from being bothered by this I regard it as good news! yes I know there will be many surprised at this with mouse fingers twitching on the smite button but first listen to this on the complexity of the autofocus system on the 1D MkIv from DPreview:

"We're not in a position to give the camera's AF system a clean bill of health but we found little to criticize in our testing. The true picture won't become clear until more are in the hands of practicing pros. Its complexity and flexibility make it a difficult camera to configure and learn and for that reason we're not yet ready to join the naysayers. "

So even professional reviewers had difficulty with the complexity of the previous AF system. I don't want a camera that I need a textbook just to learn how the complicated autofocus works. The sports & wildlife guys might love that kind of thing and this is a camera for them, but for the rest of us taking general shots it's not necessary. I just want the autofocus to be easy to operate and a simplified version will do that for me. For that reason it's good news for me.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Far from being bothered by this I regard it as good news! yes I know there will be many surprised at this with mouse fingers twitching on the smite button but first listen to this on the complexity of the autofocus system on the 1D MkIv from DPreview:

"We're not in a position to give the camera's AF system a clean bill of health but we found little to criticize in our testing. The true picture won't become clear until more are in the hands of practicing pros. Its complexity and flexibility make it a difficult camera to configure and learn and for that reason we're not yet ready to join the naysayers. "

So even professional reviewers had difficulty with the complexity of the previous AF system. I don't want a camera that I need a textbook just to learn how the complicated autofocus works. The sports & wildlife guys might love that kind of thing and this is a camera for them, but for the rest of us taking general shots it's not necessary. I just want the autofocus to be easy to operate and a simplified version will do that for me. For that reason it's good news for me.

Here is the thing, if you don't understand something and don't want to learn, just leave it at default settings and there you go, you have your simplified AF. Why have them dumb it down for the rest of us?

And who knows what simplified even means? Maybe it has most of the settings options but has only 1/2 the accuracy and 1/3 of the tracking speed? Who knows.

I am a little worried that a guy who has been all but Canon fanboy in the past said stuff like many may find the 5D3 to be a disappointment due to Canon not getting it that the time for extreme conservatism and widdling out little incremental updates has past.

 

[Flake]

Far from being bothered by this I regard it as good news! yes I know there will be many surprised at this with mouse fingers twitching on the smite button but first listen to this on the complexity of the autofocus system on the 1D MkIv from DPreview:

"We're not in a position to give the camera's AF system a clean bill of health but we found little to criticize in our testing. The true picture won't become clear until more are in the hands of practicing pros. Its complexity and flexibility make it a difficult camera to configure and learn and for that reason we're not yet ready to join the naysayers. "

So even professional reviewers had difficulty with the complexity of the previous AF system. I don't want a camera that I need a textbook just to learn how the complicated autofocus works. The sports & wildlife guys might love that kind of thing and this is a camera for them, but for the rest of us taking general shots it's not necessary. I just want the autofocus to be easy to operate and a simplified version will do that for me. For that reason it's good news for me.

Here is the thing, if you don't understand something and don't want to learn, just leave it at default settings and there you go, you have your simplified AF. Why have them dumb it down for the rest of us?

And who knows what simplified even means? Maybe it has most of the settings options but has only 1/2 the accuracy and 1/3 of the tracking speed? Who knows.

Because unfortunately it's not possible to leave it at the default settings all the time and if you want a camera with all this complexity it's there for you in the 1Dx why not buy one of those? You often won't have time to reconfigure a camera between shots to the settings you want, presets would be great but I wonder if you realise just how complicated the latest generation AF systems are? When a group like DPreview find it too challenging then it's an indication that it has become very difficult indeed.

Why have them dumb it down? Because it's cheaper & quicker to change settings there's no need to learn a mountain of data just to operate one area of the camera, and because that complexity is provided with a camera aimed at those who need it i.e. the 1Dx for action photography & wildlife. My whole point is that if you feel you need that then buy the 1Dx!

 

[briansquibb]

Far from being bothered by this I regard it as good news! yes I know there will be many surprised at this with mouse fingers twitching on the smite button but first listen to this on the complexity of the autofocus system on the 1D MkIv from DPreview:

"We're not in a position to give the camera's AF system a clean bill of health but we found little to criticize in our testing. The true picture won't become clear until more are in the hands of practicing pros. Its complexity and flexibility make it a difficult camera to configure and learn and for that reason we're not yet ready to join the naysayers. "

So even professional reviewers had difficulty with the complexity of the previous AF system. I don't want a camera that I need a textbook just to learn how the complicated autofocus works. The sports & wildlife guys might love that kind of thing and this is a camera for them, but for the rest of us taking general shots it's not necessary. I just want the autofocus to be easy to operate and a simplified version will do that for me. For that reason it's good news for me.

Well if I can pick up a new to me 1D4 and get as required results straight from the word go then it cant be complex.

To be honest why learn all about the AF system when you only need to know a limited subset - mostly about how to select the right AF point/s for you - not rocket science. Then forever more just shoot the thing - AF is not something that you want to dynamically change between shots except perhaps the AF point.

 

[Loswr]

Indeed, all these options and choices are just confusing. Simple is better. I can't believe Canon doesn't include a green-square mode on those horribly complex 1-series cameras, just to make it easier for the pros who use them. :

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Because unfortunately it's not possible to leave it at the default settings all the time and if you want a camera with all this complexity it's there for you in the 1Dx why not buy one of those? You often won't have time to reconfigure a camera between shots to the settings you want, presets would be great but I wonder if you realise just how complicated the latest generation AF systems are? When a group like DPreview find it too challenging then it's an indication that it has become very difficult indeed.

What do you think simplified would be? It would be them locking it into the default settings.

Again who says you need to try to fine tune it for birds vs. soccer vs. this or that? Just leave it on default. Then you say maybe it won't be good when I want to do this or that specific thing. Maybe not, but why would a simplified version be? And at least if it is not simplified you have the choice to play around with it. And it's not rocket science. It's not really science at all. You jsut go out and shoot and over time find what works best in what situation and if you don't have the patience for that then well just keep on default rather have them LOCK it into default.

Why not buy a 1DX? Because it is $7000 and even forgetting about that it is a giant brick of a camera that has even less MP than one of my current cams and less reach than the other.

Anyway, again, who knows what they mean by simplified so we can't even say anything much as this point.

 

[risc32]

I'm actually of the mind that for 7k i shouldn't have to tweak alot of settings to get the best performance out of an AF system. Perhaps i'm just silly. For some reason this makes me think of my friends and there love of Macs. They love how things just go, they don't have to figure anything out. While i'm a PC guy, I do see their point. But thats a road i don't want to go down. Anyway, that was my first post. been lurking, and have been presently surprised by the good natured attitude here. most places are filled with angry know it alls.