5D3 vs D800 sales numbers

[unfocused]

...I doubt canon really cares about which camera, the 5d3 or D800 sales more... Most companies such as this properly has a sale projection target... If it passes that target, in their eyes, it's a success. If it doesn't, it fails. If it's close enough to the mark, it's on track. Where exactly nikons sales matters to their projection is irrelevant...

Exactly. This is not a war, a race or a political campaign. There is no end point where a winner gets declared. In fact, it's even more complicated because there isn't even a single product. For all we know, Canon could sell half as many 5DIIIs as Nikon sells D800s and it could still be a a tremendous success if that was what their business plan calls for.

The horse race is entertainment for brand partisans and I enjoy it as much as anyone, but I'm under no illusions that comparative sales figures offer any sort of definitive evidence of the success of a particular product in their lineup, much less of any company overall.

 

[Axilrod]

I know that my local shop hasn't even filled all of the preorders yet, and it's still backordered at B&H, so it seems to be selling pretty well from what I can tell.

 

[pete vella]

the amazon top 100 list is irrelevent. say i wanted a d800 so i place the order at mutiple online retailers which ever one i recieve first i keep and cancel the rest. canon has more stock so it is easy to just place the order at one retailer and just wait , but some still play the whatever one come first game with the 5d mkiii. how many d800 buyers would buy from amazon in the first place.

 

[NormanBates]

you can spin it however you want:
* if you think this information is useless, don't pay any attention, I'm sure you'll fine lots more fun elsewhere
* if you think it's an imperfect indicator of how well they're selling, and for any reason you're interested in this: D800 still 5th, 5D3 slightly up to 15th

my motivation for following this is:
* given how passionate many people feel about this, it's a fun fight to watch
* I will buy a full frame body in the coming weeks; with today's prices it would be either 5D2 or D800, the 5D3 is not an option since I think it's a lot worse than the D800 and more expensive too; but history says that when there's a simultaneous release with a clear loser that's also overpriced, in 3-6 months the price is adjusted to make it more palatable (see D700<5D2 and 60D<D7000)

 

[PhilDrinkwater]

do pros (being the main purchacers I'm assuming) actually buy their camera's from Amazon?

I really don't think you can go by Amazon to even estimate sales numbers

I am not a pro, but I am interested in 5D3 and D800. Just wonder who limits the 5D3 and D800 for PRO ONLY.

Two of my coworkers have 5D2(including me, 3 5D2), it about over than 30% of DSLR cameras owners in my company. Do you think Canon sell more 5D to PRO users? By the way, we buy stuff from Amazon.

I think you miss the point: pro retailers tend to get the larger share of the cameras *in the early days* and pros are more likely to be early adopters - if I was paying with my own money I'd wait until it dropped £500.

That will change the sales figures early on.

 

[psolberg]

different cameras, different purposes. actual numbers will never be known. But one thing is certain: neither camera is selling bad.

 

[awinphoto]

you can spin it however you want:
* if you think this information is useless, don't pay any attention, I'm sure you'll fine lots more fun elsewhere
* if you think it's an imperfect indicator of how well they're selling, and for any reason you're interested in this: D800 still 5th, 5D3 slightly up to 15th

my motivation for following this is:
* given how passionate many people feel about this, it's a fun fight to watch
* I will buy a full frame body in the coming weeks; with today's prices it would be either 5D2 or D800, the 5D3 is not an option since I think it's a lot worse than the D800 and more expensive too; but history says that when there's a simultaneous release with a clear loser that's also overpriced, in 3-6 months the price is adjusted to make it more palatable (see D700<5D2 and 60D<D7000)

Well this professional is clearly choosing the loser of the two cameras as you so adequately put it... because it's AF, compared to just about any other camera out there, is, clearly, loser, so is the ISO, so is the 100% VF, so is the weathersealing, so is the frame rate, because, you know, afterall the D800 can do that with the optional battery grip, oh wait, that's not shooting full frame? Crap, well if dual slots, yep that's a loser, HDR, customization, ergonomics, better all around camera, better DR and IQ past ISO 800... yep why would ANYONE choose the 5d3 over the D800? **crickets**...

 

[NormanBates]

well, it's not what you think, or what I think
it's what most prospective buyers think, and we won't know about that until we get a clearer picture of how it's selling (yes, sales numbers, because it's not an absolute comparison either: it's a price/performance issue, at $2700 I would also say the 5D3 is a great camera)

D800 still 5th, 5D3 down again to 16th
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Camera-Photo-Digital-SLR-Cameras/zgbs/photo/3017941

and it's in stock at BH right now, so I guess amazon should be receiving the pretty boxes too, soon

 

[awinphoto]

For some reason, I dont think pro buyers (the target audience) of the 5d3 really shop at amazon compared to other stores such as adorama, BH photo, JR, etc... I think amazon is more of the every day consumer but I could be wrong. As far as canon and nikon care, it's based off their projected targets and numbers... Dont think Canon OR nikon is really spying the other's numbers to see who sold more in what quarter... It is what it is.

 

[psolberg]

you can spin it however you want:
* if you think this information is useless, don't pay any attention, I'm sure you'll fine lots more fun elsewhere
* if you think it's an imperfect indicator of how well they're selling, and for any reason you're interested in this: D800 still 5th, 5D3 slightly up to 15th

my motivation for following this is:
* given how passionate many people feel about this, it's a fun fight to watch
* I will buy a full frame body in the coming weeks; with today's prices it would be either 5D2 or D800, the 5D3 is not an option since I think it's a lot worse than the D800 and more expensive too; but history says that when there's a simultaneous release with a clear loser that's also overpriced, in 3-6 months the price is adjusted to make it more palatable (see D700<5D2 and 60D<D7000)

Well this professional is clearly choosing the loser of the two cameras as you so adequately put it... because it's AF, compared to just about any other camera out there, is, clearly, loser, so is the ISO, so is the 100% VF, so is the weathersealing, so is the frame rate, because, you know, afterall the D800 can do that with the optional battery grip, oh wait, that's not shooting full frame? Crap, well if dual slots, yep that's a loser, HDR, customization, ergonomics, better all around camera, better DR and IQ past ISO 800... yep why would ANYONE choose the 5d3 over the D800? **crickets**...

btw, just so you know, the D800 is also weather sealed, AF focuses with f/8 which others "superior AF" can't do which means its AF will keep working in low light when the "other" stops, also offers 100% VF, high resolution face recognition RGB metering vs not, also offers dual card slots, has HDR and 9 bracket options instead of 7, better intervalometer with direct to .mov option, and identical on higher ISO's resampled to 22MP, crop video modes, 4:2:2 HDMI out, excellent ergonomics. So let's get that out of the way. 5DMKIII has better specs in *some* areas, but it ain't the be all end all of DSLRs. Neither is the D800 but it ain't trailing anything either, just saying... 8)

Yet both of you are going in circles. Is big MP any more pointless than big ISO if that's not a priority for the photographer? no. Is high FPS any more useful if one doesn't need it? no . are 2 FPS either way going to make THAT much difference? hell no. How many people who need to shoot fast FPS aren't better served with a 8 FPS ready D700 instead for a fraction of the cost and that will smoke anything south of a 5K dollar camera? Likewise how many people really need ISO 100K or even will use it. Or how many people that get 36MP will end up needing it.

Ultimately, there is no such thing as better all around camera for everybody. that's a load of crap because the better all around camera depends on what you shoot and the answer changes based on that. What camera is the more versatile depends strictly on what areas need versatility versus what areas is trivial. Neither camera to date does it all better than the rest so why argue such idiotic thing as which is the "best all round camera". It's silly at best.

So please let's stop pretending that suddently the hallmark of versatility is a mere 6fps when flagships or even older DSLR smoke that and have for years not to mention all the great images achieved with the "SLOW" 3.9fps 5DmkII. Likewise let's not pretend the apex of versatility is having 14stops of DR and the ability to crop 1/3 of the image and beat other cameras in detail when there are these things called zoom lenses and HDR. Even meidum format.

You use whatever works for you, and that is the most versatile of YOU period. If a mere 2fps or 14MP sway you on either direction then clearly the other camera wasn't aimed at you. But it says nothing about how much of a better fit it will be for somebody else.

There isn't a loser or winner camera (well except if amazong is the official score keeper). It's just at tool. Is a hammer a loser because it can't do the screwdriver's job? Is such an argument better suited to 6th graders than grown professionals?. I think so. Let's mature here a little people. :

 

[well_dunno]

Hmm, the thread seems to have gotten much longer since last time I was here.

A few remarks:

Random sampling is used very frequently in research and unless there is a specific reason to believe the sample is not representative of the population, the results of the statistical analysis is generalizable with an error margin. If there are good reasons to think sample is not representative, it only affects the generalizability.

Thus, my hypothetical question would be in what way D800 differs from Mk 3 to affect the Amazon figures so as not to be representative. Hypothetical since I came across the page below among a few other pages which suggest the Amazon figures are weighed and tweaked to improve the sales - referring to books though:

http://www.rampant-books.com/mgt_amazon_sales_rank.htm

That sort of playing with the numbers equals zero validity for the figures. I am going to disregard them going forward... Thanks for having read thus far!

Cheers!

 

[awinphoto]

you can spin it however you want:
* if you think this information is useless, don't pay any attention, I'm sure you'll fine lots more fun elsewhere
* if you think it's an imperfect indicator of how well they're selling, and for any reason you're interested in this: D800 still 5th, 5D3 slightly up to 15th

my motivation for following this is:
* given how passionate many people feel about this, it's a fun fight to watch
* I will buy a full frame body in the coming weeks; with today's prices it would be either 5D2 or D800, the 5D3 is not an option since I think it's a lot worse than the D800 and more expensive too; but history says that when there's a simultaneous release with a clear loser that's also overpriced, in 3-6 months the price is adjusted to make it more palatable (see D700<5D2 and 60D<D7000)

Well this professional is clearly choosing the loser of the two cameras as you so adequately put it... because it's AF, compared to just about any other camera out there, is, clearly, loser, so is the ISO, so is the 100% VF, so is the weathersealing, so is the frame rate, because, you know, afterall the D800 can do that with the optional battery grip, oh wait, that's not shooting full frame? Crap, well if dual slots, yep that's a loser, HDR, customization, ergonomics, better all around camera, better DR and IQ past ISO 800... yep why would ANYONE choose the 5d3 over the D800? **crickets**...

btw, just so you know, the D800 is also weather sealed, AF focuses with f/8 which others "superior AF" can't do which means its AF will keep working in low light when the "other" stops, also offers 100% VF, high resolution face recognition RGB metering vs not, also offers dual card slots, has HDR and 9 bracket options instead of 7, better intervalometer with direct to .mov option, and identical on higher ISO's resampled to 22MP, crop video modes, 4:2:2 HDMI out, excellent ergonomics. So let's get that out of the way. 5DMKIII has better specs in *some* areas, but it ain't the be all end all of DSLRs. Neither is the D800 but it ain't trailing anything either, just saying... 8)

Yet both of you are going in circles. Is big MP any more pointless than big ISO if that's not a priority for the photographer? no. Is high FPS any more useful if one doesn't need it? no . are 2 FPS either way going to make THAT much difference? hell no. How many people who need to shoot fast FPS aren't better served with a 8 FPS ready D700 instead for a fraction of the cost and that will smoke anything south of a 5K dollar camera? Likewise how many people really need ISO 100K or even will use it. Or how many people that get 36MP will end up needing it.

Ultimately, there is no such thing as better all around camera for everybody. that's a load of crap because the better all around camera depends on what you shoot and the answer changes based on that. What camera is the more versatile depends strictly on what areas need versatility versus what areas is trivial. Neither camera to date does it all better than the rest so why argue such idiotic thing as which is the "best all round camera". It's silly at best.

So please let's stop pretending that suddently the hallmark of versatility is a mere 6fps when flagships or even older DSLR smoke that and have for years not to mention all the great images achieved with the "SLOW" 3.9fps 5DmkII. Likewise let's not pretend the apex of versatility is having 14stops of DR and the ability to crop 1/3 of the image and beat other cameras in detail when there are these things called zoom lenses and HDR. Even meidum format.

You use whatever works for you, and that is the most versatile of YOU period. If a mere 2fps or 14MP sway you on either direction then clearly the other camera wasn't aimed at you. But it says nothing about how much of a better fit it will be for somebody else.

There isn't a loser or winner camera (well except if amazong is the official score keeper). It's just at tool. Is a hammer a loser because it can't do the screwdriver's job? Is such an argument better suited to 6th graders than grown professionals?. I think so. Let's mature here a little people. :

I was referring to areas where the 5d3 ISN'T lesser of a camera. In some ways, such as base AF, it has been unaminously been declared faster than the D800 except in the dead of night and F8, but then again as others pointed out, it does do f8 and beyond with certain lenses and combinations. As for the 6FPS vs 4FPS or even the 8, 10, or 12, faster is better, always, but with that, a skilled photog can get by with lesser, it just takes more skill and patience. If its not needed, great, but it's a good problem to have, just like MP, DR, and ISO. I agree that there is no clear winner or loser, it's just one of the things where they are two seperate tools. For everything Nikon has an advantage, I say the canon has a seperate advantage to match. It is what it is.

 

[briansquibb]

btw, just so you know, the D800 is also weather sealed, AF focuses with f/8 which others "superior AF" can't do which means its AF will keep working in low light when the "other" stops, also offers 100% VF, high resolution face recognition RGB metering vs not, also offers dual card slots, has HDR and 9 bracket options instead of 7, better intervalometer with direct to .mov option, and identical on higher ISO's resampled to 22MP, crop video modes, 4:2:2 HDMI out, excellent ergonomics. So let's get that out of the way. 5DMKIII has better specs in *some* areas, but it ain't the be all end all of DSLRs. Neither is the D800 but it ain't trailing anything either, just saying... 8)

We realise that you have moved to the D800 and you like it.

As you say we all have our likes and dislikes - and mine is more fast moving and stills orientated. So I compare the D800 to the 1D4. So your list of cons doesn't raise a glimmer of interest. Even comparing it to my 1DS3 doesn't nothing either.

So please stop the "my Nikon is better than your Canon rant"

 

[PhilDrinkwater]

Ultimately, there is no such thing as better all around camera for everybody. that's a load of crap because the better all around camera depends on what you shoot and the answer changes based on that.

He didn't say "better all round camera for everybody" he said "better all round camera". You added the "for everybody". That changes things quite significantly in terms of meaning...

 

[NormanBates]

I came across the page below among a few other pages which suggest the Amazon figures are weighed and tweaked to improve the sales - referring to books though:

http://www.rampant-books.com/mgt_amazon_sales_rank.htm

* I hope they don't play with the numbers, it would ruin the only source of timely relevant data in this area...
* that link reinforces my belief that these sales rankings are based on weekly data

D800 still 5th, 5D3 falling again, 18th
and it's still in stock at BH, but out of stock at amazon, let's hope they get their shipment soon...

 

[awinphoto]

* I hope they don't play with the numbers, it would ruin the only source of timely relevant data in this area...
* that link reinforces my belief that these sales rankings are based on weekly data

D800 still 5th, 5D3 falling again, 18th
and it's still in stock at BH, but out of stock at amazon, let's hope they get their shipment soon...

On your first point, as it's unknown how valid those rankings are and also how many of the target audience actually buys from amazon and also regarding stock levels, I cannot speak for nikons production, but canon has 2 dedicated factories pumping them out... Also wasn't there postings on CR a week or two ago that nikon was having production problems with the AF, battery, and something else and in some stores such as amazon UK cancelling backorders of the D800? Anyways there are a few possible reasons for the varying stock levels... Personally I wouldn't get too excited until canon and nikon start releasing quarterly earning reports, but even then it may not tell you the success of each product. Everything is pure speculation at this point.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Using Amazon sales figures can be very misleading. Canon sells a body only version plus a kit version in the USA, where Nikon only sells the body only version. So far as I can tell, you cannot compare the total number of 5D MK III's to the D800's being deliivered, except that Canon has two factories producing them so they are likely producing far more cameras.

 

[NormanBates]

so far sales numbers are limited by supply issues

if we believe amazon's numbers that the D800 is ranking clearly above the 5D3 (and that's a big if), then all we know is that there are more D800 than 5D3 being manufactured/shipped/sold, and that demand for the D800 is at least higher than the number of 5D3 cameras that canon can ship

that's not a lot

once supply is enough, we'll get a clearer picture of demand for each camera; I hope that's soon

D800 still 5th, 5D3 both 18th and 19th (kit, and body-only)
(I don't know how much numbers change from one position to another; I'd say a 5th sells more than a 18th+19th, but I have absolutely no idea, it could be the other way around; also, it's the first time that the kit has appeared in the top 20, I'd say it's safe to say that so far the D800 has moved more bodies than the 5D3)

 

[Loswr]

if we believe amazon's numbers that the D800 is ranking clearly above the 5D3 (and that's a big if), then all we know is that there are more D800 than 5D3 being manufactured/shipped/sold, and that demand for the D800 is at least higher than the number of 5D3 cameras that canon can ship

No, if we believe Anazon's numbers, all we know is that Amazon is selling more D800 bodies than 5DIII bodies. That says absolutely nothing about the total number of either body being manufactured/shipped/sold, and nothing about overall demand. Not sure why you'd assume that Amazon is the major retailer for cameras costing >$3000, nor why you'd assume their sales rankings are representative of the overall market.

 

[NormanBates]

fair enough
I meant:
"if we believe amazon's numbers that the D800 is ranking clearly above the 5D3 [to be correct and representative] (and that's a big if)..."


edit:
D800 down to 6th, 5D3 went to 14th (kit) and 23rd (body)