5D3 vs D800 sales numbers

[Northstar]

btw, just so you know, the D800 is also weather sealed, AF focuses with f/8 which others "superior AF" can't do which means its AF will keep working in low light when the "other" stops, also offers 100% VF, high resolution face recognition RGB metering vs not, also offers dual card slots, has HDR and 9 bracket options instead of 7, better intervalometer with direct to .mov option, and identical on higher ISO's resampled to 22MP, crop video modes, 4:2:2 HDMI out, excellent ergonomics. So let's get that out of the way. 5DMKIII has better specs in *some* areas, but it ain't the be all end all of DSLRs. Neither is the D800 but it ain't trailing anything either, just saying... 8)

Yet both of you are going in circles. Is big MP any more pointless than big ISO if that's not a priority for the photographer? no. Is high FPS any more useful if one doesn't need it? no . are 2 FPS either way going to make THAT much difference? hell no. How many people who need to shoot fast FPS aren't better served with a 8 FPS ready D700 instead for a fraction of the cost and that will smoke anything south of a 5K dollar camera? Likewise how many people really need ISO 100K or even will use it. Or how many people that get 36MP will end up needing it.

Ultimately, there is no such thing as better all around camera for everybody. that's a load of crap because the better all around camera depends on what you shoot and the answer changes based on that. What camera is the more versatile depends strictly on what areas need versatility versus what areas is trivial. Neither camera to date does it all better than the rest so why argue such idiotic thing as which is the "best all round camera". It's silly at best.

So please let's stop pretending that suddently the hallmark of versatility is a mere 6fps when flagships or even older DSLR smoke that and have for years not to mention all the great images achieved with the "SLOW" 3.9fps 5DmkII. Likewise let's not pretend the apex of versatility is having 14stops of DR and the ability to crop 1/3 of the image and beat other cameras in detail when there are these things called zoom lenses and HDR. Even meidum format.

You use whatever works for you, and that is the most versatile of YOU period. If a mere 2fps or 14MP sway you on either direction then clearly the other camera wasn't aimed at you. But it says nothing about how much of a better fit it will be for somebody else.

There isn't a loser or winner camera (well except if amazong is the official score keeper). It's just at tool. Is a hammer a loser because it can't do the screwdriver's job? Is such an argument better suited to 6th graders than grown professionals?. I think so. Let's mature here a little people. :

[/quote]


Many excellent points here...good post.

 

[V8Beast]

So is the moral of the story that the Rebel T3i is the world's best-selling DSLR? In other news, I've been shooting with my 5D3 for over a month now, and don't give a rat's ass how many additional copies Canon sells. Why is this even relevant? If you can't get over the fact that the 5D3 costs $500 more than the D800, just buy a D800 and be happy. Problem solved.

 

[NormanBates]

as I said before:
my motivation for following this is:
* given how passionate many people feel about this, it's a fun fight to watch
* I expect the 5D3 to fall $500 or so in the coming months, IF sales numbers are low

I enjoy watching this kind of fight, other people enjoy watching cars go round and round on an oval circuit

D800 6th, 5D3 22nd and 23rd (!!!)
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Camera-Photo-Digital-SLR-Cameras/zgbs/photo/3017941

 

[V8Beast]

* I expect the 5D3 to fall $500 or so in the coming months, IF sales numbers are low

Or given the disparity between the D800's supply and demand, maybe the D800 will increase in price by $500. I know it sounds crazy, the law of supply vs. demand be damned.

 

[NormanBates]

historically, it's been the other way around, though (D7000 vs 60D, 5D2 vs D700)
but yes, I know that's also an option

 

[traveller]

* I expect the 5D3 to fall $500 or so in the coming months, IF sales numbers are low

Or given the disparity between the D800's supply and demand, maybe the D800 will increase in price by $500. I know it sounds crazy, the law of supply vs. demand be damned.

That's already happened in the UK amd the D800 wasn't even on sale at the time... ???

 

[well_dunno]

Either case, I am glad Nikon came out with D800 and I do hope it sells well - competition can only bring us better value...

Also, if the European economy continues to be the way it has been last year, Leicas might become affordable some day... :-\

 

[zim]

* of course the list on the uk site is different: they don't even sell the 5D3 there yet!

Exactly so Amazon is no indicator of 5D3 sales, daily, weekly, monthly or whatever and when it does it still wont be

 

[NormanBates]

D800 6th, 5D3 23rd and 45th
both still backordered
I'd really want to see the production issues gone away..

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Camera-Photo-Digital-SLR-Cameras/zgbs/photo/3017941/ref=zg_bs_3017941_pg_2?_encoding=UTF8


edit:
22-may: D800 5th again, 5D3 23rd and 48th

 

[Invertalon]

The 5D3 is being bought up like hotcakes. You really think you will see a price drop in the next 6-months? No way.

The 5D3 is out of stock or back-ordered on many of the largest sites... The supply of the 5D3 they have got are probably MUCH larger then the D800. Canon is pumping them out in much larger numbers. The fact the 5D3 is still out of stock in many places should show you sales are strong.

The D800 is out everywhere due to good demand and poor supply by Nikon. Nikon may be out of stock everywhere much worse then the 5D3, but the 5D3 could have 300% the sales of the D800... Never know.

 

[neuroanatomist]

I enjoy watching this kind of fight

Since you're so fond of watching Amazon's Top 100 Best Selling dSLR list, I wonder if you've looked at their Top 100 Rated list?

Canon has the top 8 positions on that list, 17 of the top 20 slots - you have to go all the way down to #19 to find the first Nikon camera on the list. Still, it sould make you happy that even there, the D800 is ahead of the 5DIII... :

 

[NormanBates]

@Neuro
that's another interesting list, and I didn't know they had those too, thanks; only one Nikon in the first page, which is nearly all Canon; very impressive
still, the one that should affect prices is the sales list

-------------------------

@Invertalon
you may be right that we may not see a price drop in the next 6 months
I still expect to see one, but it is obvious that such event is just one possible outcome

the rest of your post doesn't make sense at all

"the fact that the 5D3 is still out of stock in many places" only tells me that demand is higher than supply, it says nothing about the number of cameras Canon is shipping, relative to Nikon (if anything, it tells me it's a low number, as in "it's lower than demand"; there's no other piece of information regarding numbers in that statement)

I don't know if amazon makes its list using orders or shipments
A) if it is "orders", the list tells me (many) more D800's are ordered than 5D3's
B) if it is "shipments", the list tells me (many) more D800's are shipped than 5D3's

and if it is A, the D800 would have to have a massively longer backorder list than the 5D3 for the 5D3 to actually be shipping in higher quantities
the most likely scenario, looking at that list, is that the D800 is having both more orders and more shipments than the 5D3
("most likely", not "inevitable conclusion")

(edit, 01-jun: the 1DX appeared on the list today, at 81st, so it's "orders"; no idea on how many of these orders are being cancelled, for either the 5D3 or the D800, but this confirms that there's a lot more interest in the D800 than in the 5D3; and the backorder list on the D800 would have to be HUGE for it not to be shipping more than the 5D3)

and again, the fact that they're both out of order contains no information regarding relative sales numbers

it's a mystery to me how you would look at that list and conclude that "The supply of the 5D3 they have got are probably MUCH larger then the D800"

----------------------

D800 6th
5D3 back to the first page, 19th and 48th

-----------------------

edit:

24-may: D800 5th, 5D3 23rd and 36th, everything still backordered (but good news: over at bh, the 5d3 kit has been in stock non-stop for 2 or 3 days!!)

25-may: D800 5th, 5D3 28th and 35th
26-may: D800 8th, 5D3 22nd and 49th (for D800, that's the lowest I've seen it since launch)
27-may: D800 5th, 5D3 31st and 32nd
28-may: D800 8th, 5D3 10th and 47th, and IN STOCK!! (body only version, the one that has climbed to 10th)
29-may: D800 9th, 5D3 8th and 54th; Canon on top!! but 5D3 again out of stock...
30-may: D800 8th, 5D3 12nd and 66th
31-may: D800 7th, 5D3 13th and 95th (that's well below the 30D, 40D and 50D, which for some reason still appear in the list)
01-jun: D800 7th, 5D3 15th and 51st
02-jun: D800 4th, 5D3 12th and out-of-the-list
03-jun: D800 6th, 5D3 19th and 37th
04-jun: D800 7th, 5D3 19th and 38th
05-jun: D800 7th, 5D3 19th and 30th (kit in stock)
06-jun: D800 8th, 5D3 17th and 14th (and again out of stock)
07-jun: D800 7th, 5D3 2nd and 30th (body only in stock even after order increase: finally some meaningful re-stock!!)
08-jun: D800 8th, 5D3 6th and 36th (and again out of stock)
09-jun: D800 8th, 5D3 13th and 39th (and the T4i/650D is already there: 10th)
10-jun: D800 6th, 5D3 16th and 42nd (T4i 3rd, and that's the STM kit) (5D3 falls again as stock ends; it doesn't seem to happen to the D800, which has been up there all the time and never in stock)
11-jun: D800 8th, 5D3 17th and 62nd
12-jun: D800 6th, 5D3 22nd and 60th (5D3 in stock, both body and kit, at affiliate stores that carry official price)
13-jun: D800 7th, 5D3 21st and 39th (out of stock again)
14-jun: D800 7th, 5D3 22nd and 37th
15-jun: D800 8th, 5D3 7th and 36th (5D3 in stock, both body and kit!!)
16-jun: D800 8th, 5D3 5th and 21st (5D3 in stock, both body and kit!!)
17-jun: D800 9th, 5D3 6th and 20th (still: 5D3 in stock, both body and kit!!)
18-jun: D800 8th, 5D3 6th and 35th (still: 5D3 in stock, both body and kit!!)
19-jun: D800 8th, 5D3 5th and 23rd (still: 5D3 in stock, both body and kit!!)
20-jun: D800 5th, 5D3 6th and 26th (still: 5D3 in stock, both body and kit!!)
21-jun: D800 6th, 5D3 11th and 27th (in stock but sliding down, as opposed to the D800, out of stock but always up there)
22-jun: D800 8th, 5D3 12th and 22nd (still: 5D3 in stock, both body and kit: first full week without going out of stock!!)
23-jun: D800 8th, 5D3 9th and 34th (body-only goes up as kit goes out of stock) (this suggests that 9th+34th is slightly smaller than 12th+22nd, and the slope is higher at the top)

25-jun: D800 8th, 5D3 9th and 34th
26-jun: D800 8th, 5D3 9th and 43rd (both 5D3 models still in stock, but kit only at amazon partners)
27-jun: D800 8th, 5D3 10th and 30th (both 5D3 models still in stock, but kit only at amazon partners)
28-jun: D800 7th, 5D3 9th and 32nd (both 5D3 models still in stock, but kit only at amazon partners)
29-jun: D800 9th, 5D3 11th and 33rd (body-only in stock, kit backordered)
30-jun: D800 11th, 5D3 6th and 41st (body-only in stock, kit backordered)
01-jul: D800 6th, 5D3 10th and 34th (both 5D3 models in stock)
02-jul: D800 6th, 5D3 10th and 40th (body-only in stock, kit backordered)
03-jul: D800 9th, 5D3 8th and 52nd (both 5D3 models in stock)
04-jul: D800 7th, 5D3 9th and 36th (both 5D3 models in stock)
05-jul: D800 7th, 5D3 11th and 31st (both 5D3 models in stock) (kit at slightly discounted price, $4274, just $25 below usual)
06-jul: D800 7th, 5D3 11th and 27th (both 5D3 models in stock)

also... both at slightly discounted prices: $3484 instead of $3499 and $4249 instead of $4299
same at bhpthotovideo $3484 and $4274

07-jul: D800 7th, 5D3 6th and 22nd after bigger price drop (both models in stock, at $3399 and $4199)
09-jul: D800 4th, 5D3 11th and 25th (kit in stock at $4199, body-only back at $3499 and only in stock at associate sellers)
10-jul: D800 4th, 5D3 18th and 28th (kit in stock at $4249, body-only back at $3499, only in stock at associate sellers)
11-jul: D800 5th, 5D3 21st and 23rd (kit in stock at $4249, body-only at $3484, only in stock at associate sellers)
12-jul: D800 10th, 5D3 21st and 29th (kit in stock at $4249, body-only at $3484, only in stock at associate sellers)
13-jul: D800 9th, 5D3 26th and 31st (kit in stock at $4249, body-only at $3479, only in stock at associate sellers)

14-jul: D800 7th, 5D3 21st and 13th (KIT IN STOCK AT $3999, body-only at $3484, only in stock at associate sellers)
15-jul: D800 7th, 5D3 26th and 10th (both in stock only at associate sellers; price $3199 -adorama- and $4249)
16-jul: D800 11th, 5D3 5th and 12th (both in stock only at associate sellers; price $3449 and $4249)
17-jul: D800 10th, 5D3 8th and 20th (both in stock only at associate sellers; price $3484 and $4249)
18-jul: D800 12th, 5D3 8th and 27th (body-only in stock at $3449, kit in stock only at associate sellers, $4249)
19-jul: D800 12th, 5D3 9th and 23rd (body-only in stock at $3449, kit in stock only at associate sellers, $4249)
20-jul: D800 9th, 5D3 8th and 33rd (body-only in stock at $3349, kit in stock only at associate sellers, $4249)

(also: kit out of stock but listed at $4099 directly from amazon)

21-jul: D800 11th, 5D3 8th (body-only in stock at $3349)
23-jul: D800 10th, 5D3 7th and 38th (body-only in stock, $3349, kit in stock only at associate sellers, $4249)
24-jul: D800 10th, 5D3 6th and 26th (body-only in stock, $3349, kit backordered, $4099)
25-jul: D800 5th, 5D3 6th and 32nd (D800 in stock, first time!) (body-only in stock at $3349, kit backordered, $4099)
26-jul: D800 1st, 5D3 7th and 44th (D800 sold out again) (body-only in stock at $3349, kit backordered, $4099)
27-jul: D800 4th, 5D3 8th and 49th (body-only in stock at $3499, kit in stock only at associate sellers, $4299)
28-jul: D800 5th, 5D3 9th and 42nd (body-only in stock at $3499, kit in stock only at associate sellers, $4299)

30-jul: D800 11th, 5D3 10th and 55th (body-only in stock at $3429, kit in stock only at associate sellers, $4299)
31-jul: D800 10th, 5D3 12th and 33rd (body-only in stock, $3499, kit in stock only at associate sellers, $4299)

I still think the price has to fall, but can't wait any longer: bought a 5D2, will wait and see if Canon pulls its act together, otherwise consider switching brands.

02-ago: D800 1st, 5D3 12th and 28th (D800 in stock, $2999) (body and kit in stock, $3499 and $4299)
03-ago: D800 1st, 5D3 13th and 35th (D800 in stock, $2999) (body and kit in stock, $3499 and $4299)
04-ago: D800 1st, 5D3 9th and 29th (D800 backordered again, except at affiliates at $3299) (5D3 in stock, $3499 and $4299)

06-ago: D800 6th, 5D3 16th and 43rd (5D3 in stock, $3499 and $4299)
07-ago: D800 6th, 5D3 13th and 29th (5D3 in stock, $3464 and $4299)
08-ago: D800 5th, 5D3 12th and 31st (5D3 in stock, $3464 and $4299)
09-ago: D800 6th, 5D3 12th and 27th (5D3 in stock, $3464 and $4299)
10-ago: D800 1st, 5D3 9th and 29th (D800 in stock, $2999) (5D3 in stock, $3464 and $4299)
11-ago: D800 1st, 5D3 12th and 36th (D800 in stock, $2999) (5D3 in stock, $3464 and $4299)
13-ago: D800 3rd, 5D3 13th and 49th (D800 backordered, $2999) (5D3 in stock, $3464 and $4299)
14-ago: D800 5th, 5D3 8th and 24th (D800 backordered, $2999) (5D3 in stock, $3464 and $4299)

.

 

[NormanBates]

New signs of demand for the 5D3 slowing down:

* in the first week or two, when the 5D3 appeared in stock in an amazon affiliate store (today, "Audio Video Communication Store"), it did so at a markup price ($4500 for the lens kit, instead of $4200), but the camera nevertheless went up in the ranking. For a couple of days, the 5D3 kit has been in stock at that price, and going down in the ranking.

* in the first week or two, when an ebay dealer got hold of a 5D3, they sold it at a high premium (usually $4000 for the body only version); today, there are still a lot of listings for that kind of money, but there are also dozens of cameras on offer at a discount ($3400 or less, including shipping)
http://www.ebay.com/ctg/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III-22-3-MP-Digital-SLR-Camera-Black-Body-Only-Latest-Model-/113297147?rt=nc&_aset=0&_dmpt=Digital_Cameras&_pcategid=625&_pcatid=782&_pdpal=1&_rptype=4295&_trksid=p5360.c0.m299.l1513&_pgn=3
e.g. this highly rated seller has "more than 10 available, 18 sold", at $3372 with free shipping:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III-Body-22-3MP-Digital-Camera-/221018005874?pt=Digital_Cameras&hash=item3375b32172

It seems to me that those willing to pay "even more" for their 5D3 already have one. I really want Canon to solve their supply issues...

 

[cliffwang]

It seems to me that those willing to pay "even more" for their 5D3 already have one. I really want Canon to solve their supply issues...

I think that's not really necessary for Canon to solve the supply issue. Most Canon loyal users who need a 5D3 should have one on hand already. And now you can buy a 5D3 from anywhere. That means 5D3 supply might exceed its demand now. Why does Canon need to have more 5D3 supply? Canon will put more focus on its other new products.

 

[stoneysnapper]

and it's different in uk....

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bestsellers-Electronics-Digital-SLR-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/14335821

and therefore probably every other country/region

do pros (being the main purchacers I'm assuming) actually buy their camera's from Amazon?

I really don't think you can go by Amazon to even estimate sales numbers

Worth pointing out that Amazon UK has not sold a single 5Diii because they have never had any to sell. I've been checking weekly if not more frequently since release on there and its never been available. One or two third party sellers have one but thats it. I'm guessing its the same with the D800 as the only sellers on Amazon again are third party and they are selling at upwards of £800 more than the retail price.

 

[NormanBates]

The price is already starting to slide.
In the last few days, amazon has taken $25, $50, and now $100 out of the price of both the body-only and the kit.
Now two things can happen: demand may increase a lot, and it may go out of stock again, which would stop the price slide, or the increase in demand may be more modest, and the price slide may accelerate.

I think the second one is more likely, since on ebay the body-only version can be bought for $3150 shipped...

 

[Abraxx]

What a silly thread and > meaningless. :

Oh, by the way, I raised the sales number of the 5D3 by 1 this week and I did not buy via Amazon or similar large store...!

cheers ;D

 

[markd61]

my theory is that, once manufacturing issues are solved, Canon will have to lower the price of their 5D3 because of low sales numbers, given that the D800 is so much better for stills in nearly every image quality metric, and its price is significantly lower too

Why aren't you on a waiting list for the D-800 then? ???

 

[Abraxx]

my theory is that, once manufacturing issues are solved, Canon will have to lower the price of their 5D3 because of low sales numbers, given that the D800 is so much better for stills in nearly every image quality metric, and its price is significantly lower too

Why aren't you on a waiting list for the D-800 then? ???

Likely because he is just a troll or realistically does know that it will Nikon take quite some time to resolve all these issues with the D800.

@Norman
I compared these 2 cams myself extensively too, out of 3 D800 I tried, in 3 different countries (UK, Germany, Spain), from 3 different production batches, at least one of them suffered from the following defects (some of which, like the left AF, all 3 showed the defect):

- strange spots on the sensor, (dirt, oil, I don't know) out of box!
- green tint on LCD, no color accuracy (officially not acknowledged by N, though obvious!)
- AWB with green tint
- outer left AF points not working, AF point pivoting
- soft focus on left side with some lenses
- scratches on mirror, out of box!
- total camera hang ups in some configs (by now there was a firmware update, but I read that it did not solve it with all cams)
- HDMI out not working with some recorders (one dealer couldn't get it to work, well I don't need that anyway, but an example for Specsheet hype vs RL)
- long exposure issues (see some blogs for details...this is really an ... for landscaping)
- liveview zoomed in is "wobbly" & noisy, useless for manual focusing
- moire issues
- LCDisplay frame rate very low (not a big thingy, but I think its the quality of the chosen LCD/Rendering solution chosen, which is just subpar)
- high video noise
- high mirror vibration, blurring pics
- Flashes are wirelessly not triggered reliably
- faulty battery
- misaligned pentaprism (basically more than 3 cams, because this was noticed by one dealer and he had a second D800...he shouldn't have told me...)

For several of these defects you'll easily find youtube videos and threads in Nikon forums discussing these too...

For me, it looks like Nikon currently has severe quality control issues with the D800.
Some of these obviously won't be solved by firmware and Nikon is not showing any(!) interest in acknowledging them (compared to Canon, who acted fairly quickly regarding the "little" light leak issue). Spoke with Nikon Germany sales on a fair again just recently too...which reduced my expectation that Nikon is going to do a lot about AF or other things I mentioned.
They consider most of the list as up to specs... :
To me it looks like there are many, many more issues with the new FF from Nikon compared to Canon's... and Nikon does not seem to do anything or care about several of them (except battery issues so far, where they are basically forced to).
Put on top that, I have the impression that the German Nikon support is far worse than the Canon.
My conclusion:
I personally move the price difference now into the category "you get what you pay for".

Oh and by the way, if I expose correct, I do not need the extra DR at low ISO, but at mid to high ISO I'm happy about the extra DR (over the Nikon), because there I probably need it more often when shooting AL...
I still prefer the Canon Skin tones and the 5D3 is more responsive than the D800.
(and there is more about the 5D3, which I prefer, but thats not subject of my post here)

So no, in no way is the D800 in IQ or other aspects far superior to the 5D3. Only for controlled light situations and tripod landscaping it is, but in real life, only in these situations, and for my taste only by a small amount. In others she is NOT.

Lesson learned: stop comparing spec sheets, but rent and go out and try/compare the cams of your interest yourself.
And stop interpreting silly sales charts of Amazon, they do not tell you what the right Cam is for you!

my 2 cents ;D

PS I bought the 5D3 with a german warranty, plus my CPS dealer grants an extended Canon warranty to 3 years.
Again, you get what you pay for