http://www.dpreview.com/articles/7181402796/dynamic-range-test-added-to-canon-eos-5ds-r-first-impressions-review
5DS-R DR test on DPReview
- Thread starter CaptureWhatYouSee
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Can someone tell me how applicable / useful / relevant pushing an ISO 100 shot by six stops is? I am not a sensor aficionado -- so this may be a normal sensor review sort of comparison -- but I have never needed to do that with my shots.
Juicy conclusion-y bits for the TL/DR folks:
"Our preliminary Raw dynamic range analyses indicate that Canon's new 50MP resolution cameras bring not only a whole lot of resolution to the table, but also some increases in dynamic range over its predecessors. As we saw with the 7D Mark II, Canon’s been making some, albeit arguably slow, progress with respect to dynamic range, and we're pleased to see this trickle down to the 5DS cameras. We were skeptical when Canon first told us that dynamic range would be similar to the 5D Mark III - if the 5DS' sensors are essentially scaled 7D Mark II sensors, then we’d have expected roughly 1EV (at best) dynamic range improvement over the 7D Mark II, which itself was almost on par with the 5D Mark III with respect to dynamic range. Indeed, this is essentially what we see, with the 5DS R ISO 100 shot pushed 6 EV appearing to have roughly similar noise levels to the 5D Mark III ISO 200 shot pushed 5 EV. That's at least a stop improvement over the 5D Mark III, with little to no banding to boot, and this is particularly impressive given the massive increase in resolution.
That said, the 5DS cameras cannot compete with the massive base ISO dynamic range we see from on-chip ADC architectures from Sony sensors in cameras from competitors like Nikon, Pentax, and Sony itself. Those shooting high dynamic range scenes may still have to rely on filters and HDR techniques more than they might have had to if shooting with some of the better performing peers, and in general you will have to take more care to ensure proper exposure due to the more limited exposure latitude compared to some of the competition."
- A
Juicy conclusion-y bits for the TL/DR folks:
"Our preliminary Raw dynamic range analyses indicate that Canon's new 50MP resolution cameras bring not only a whole lot of resolution to the table, but also some increases in dynamic range over its predecessors. As we saw with the 7D Mark II, Canon’s been making some, albeit arguably slow, progress with respect to dynamic range, and we're pleased to see this trickle down to the 5DS cameras. We were skeptical when Canon first told us that dynamic range would be similar to the 5D Mark III - if the 5DS' sensors are essentially scaled 7D Mark II sensors, then we’d have expected roughly 1EV (at best) dynamic range improvement over the 7D Mark II, which itself was almost on par with the 5D Mark III with respect to dynamic range. Indeed, this is essentially what we see, with the 5DS R ISO 100 shot pushed 6 EV appearing to have roughly similar noise levels to the 5D Mark III ISO 200 shot pushed 5 EV. That's at least a stop improvement over the 5D Mark III, with little to no banding to boot, and this is particularly impressive given the massive increase in resolution.
That said, the 5DS cameras cannot compete with the massive base ISO dynamic range we see from on-chip ADC architectures from Sony sensors in cameras from competitors like Nikon, Pentax, and Sony itself. Those shooting high dynamic range scenes may still have to rely on filters and HDR techniques more than they might have had to if shooting with some of the better performing peers, and in general you will have to take more care to ensure proper exposure due to the more limited exposure latitude compared to some of the competition."
- A
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Loswr
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ahsanford said:
Clearly, you're not a real photographer. Real photographers need to do it all the time. For example, say you're shooting with the lens cap on, like a real photographer. A 6-stop push can really save that shot. Or say you want that flat, washed out, front-lit, shadowless look for your photography, like a real photographer. Again, that 6-stop push really helps.
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This is great stuff. For a sensor to be good, you must be able to shoot at base ISO at all times and be able to adjust accordingly in post. They should just remove the ISO button from the camera, what is the point? I mean seriously, who needs to get it right in the camera now? Another quote said something about taking care to make sure the exposure is correct with the 5DS due to dynamic range limitations. I would hate to have to make an accurate exposure, what kind of photographer does that anyway?
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jaayres20 said:
My midnight Yeti and Loch Ness Monster photography is only shot at ISO 100, even if I underexpose by 11 stops. Post-processing feels like developing film because I have no @#$@ing clue of what pictures I took. Because chimping a completely jet black picture is like looking at a Christmas present before Christmas day: who knows what good stuff is in there, amiright?
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I've taken about 10 (landscape) photos at ISO 100 in the past 5 years, but if you live somewhere without wind or like to shoot at Noon, I'm sure being able to push your shadows 6 stops would be mighty handy. If the 5DS has more DR, that's good, but if not, I'm not going to sweat it.
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ahsanford said:
Applicable : When you're testing sensors that are otherwise all pretty well identical
Useful : When you've become so bored testing sensors that are otherwise all pretty well identical
Relevant : Err...........want to sell more Nikons on Amazon perhaps ?
I have only ever gone 1 stop pull, 1.5 stop push. That's it. On a correctly exposed frame 1.5 stops is a major shadow lift.
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Yes sometimes pushing shadows in post is a nightmare, so if you don't have a flash it becomes handy, in some situations, but 6 stops is really too much, and to make it a test in a review is ridiculous.
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ahsanford said:
It's a good way to test for DR in a controlled space. I'd love for them to go out and shoot the same beautiful NW landscape scene with every camera, but it's not practical.
My Mk III has problematic shadows at +2EV and +100 shadows, at ISO 100. That's not even a very aggressive push. I often use bracketing and HDR to overcome this, but I'd much rather get it in a single shot because...life moves.
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ahsanford said:
DP Review stated they've switched to this new, subjective, DR rating system as it provides a more real-world comparison of useable dynamic range as opposed to the absolute DR ratings of the old DPR test and DXO's ratings. This new method isn't about pushing exposure for sake of doing it, rather it's the "expose to the left" philosophy, assuming that photogs will underexpose to ensure their images' highlights don't clip regardless of their camera's DR, and therefore shadow performance is actually more important as it affects how much noise and detail will be in images once exposure is normalized. I agree wholeheartedly with this new testing system because it fits more with the way digital sensors work; highlights are universally clean and have a hard limit but shadows can look vastly different from camera-to-camera and don't have the same hard cutoff.
For example, my EOS M and 5D "Classic" both received a DR rating of 11 stops from DXO Mark, and images shot of the same scene with the same exposure values will have basically the same histogram, yet in actual use, if I expose each to preserve highlights, the 5D images look better because the shadows are cleaner.
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Gheez! Even I think a 4EV push is enough to show weakness in the sensor system. 6 is a bit much.
Looks like the new FF 5Ds may have have dropped the vast majority of the plaid plague. Finally. Still pretty blotchy color noise. Will have to wait for DxOmark to do a complete and proper test before I can decide that I still really don't want one.
Looks like the new FF 5Ds may have have dropped the vast majority of the plaid plague. Finally. Still pretty blotchy color noise. Will have to wait for DxOmark to do a complete and proper test before I can decide that I still really don't want one.
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Loswr
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rs said:Finally the single most important aspect of a camera is getting the attention it deserves. And to think some manufacturers are stupid enough to put metering systems into some of their cameras to avoid all of this pushing in post?
Metering systems are for wannabe amateurs. Real photographers eschew them because they know pushing your exposure 6-stops in post gives the best IQ.
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What real photographers need isn't just enough DR to push 6 stops in post, but light field so they can focus in post, 360 degree image capture (like google street view) at > 1 gigapixel resolution to allow them to frame in post, and 240fps capture to allow them to choose the decisive moment in post. Now if only they could get the camera to be positioned correctly in post too...neuroanatomist said:rs said:Finally the single most important aspect of a camera is getting the attention it deserves. And to think some manufacturers are stupid enough to put metering systems into some of their cameras to avoid all of this pushing in post?
Metering systems are for wannabe amateurs. Real photographers eschew them because they know pushing your exposure 6-stops in post gives the best IQ.
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rs said:What real photographers need isn't just enough DR to push 6 stops in post, but light field so they can focus in post, 360 degree image capture (like google street view) at > 1 gigapixel resolution to allow them to frame in post, and 240fps capture to allow them to choose the decisive moment in post. Now if only they could get the camera to be positioned correctly in post too...neuroanatomist said:rs said:Finally the single most important aspect of a camera is getting the attention it deserves. And to think some manufacturers are stupid enough to put metering systems into some of their cameras to avoid all of this pushing in post?
Metering systems are for wannabe amateurs. Real photographers eschew them because they know pushing your exposure 6-stops in post gives the best IQ.
In the future when Google sets up a live feed of the entire surface of the Earth a bunch of people will just track every eagle alive and every time one catches a fish they'll use a computer to "interpolate" the satellite feed into a picture of the event from any angle.
At this point "being there" will mean you had your browser window on the spot of that event sometime that day.
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neuroanatomist said:
You're mistaken, REAL photographers don't shoot lens caps. They are too busy hanging out on photography forums, making fun of anybody mentioning any area where Canon is behind the competition
. Even if the opinion comes from a well known professional review site that posts a "Real World Dynamic Range" example.Seriously though, to me their summary seems to be spot on - it's not Canon bashing, but an objective conclusion:
That said, the 5DS cameras cannot compete with the massive base ISO dynamic range we see from on-chip ADC architectures from Sony sensors in cameras from competitors like Nikon, Pentax, and Sony itself. Those shooting high dynamic range scenes may still have to rely on filters and HDR techniques more than they might have had to if shooting with some of the better performing peers, and in general you will have to take more care to ensure proper exposure due to the more limited exposure latitude compared to some of the competition.
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I fear no Evil as I walk through the Valley of the Trolls !! :
but seriously though are there any Canon fanboys here.
I never have been to the Nikon are Sony web pages because I shoot Canon.
would never dream of bashing them .
if any of you know where I can go to be among Canon Family shoot a link
but seriously though are there any Canon fanboys here.
I never have been to the Nikon are Sony web pages because I shoot Canon.
would never dream of bashing them .
if any of you know where I can go to be among Canon Family shoot a link
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I just love the demonization of dynamic range here. It's an expanded capability. More dynamic range means less noise. How could that ever be a bad thing? You don't even have to lift the shadows to see improved IQ at ISO 100 from having 1/10th the read noise.
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