6D Sensor... why?

[Canon-F1]

can someone explain why the 6D has a new developed 20.2 MP sensor?

i mean, im tottaly puzzled why a new sensor?

if it would be a hybrid sensor.. ok.... but it´s not.
so why making another sensor an not using the 5D MK3 sensor?

i mean, it has to be more expensive to R&D yet another FF sensor then using and producing a existing sensor?

 

[Gothmoth]

i don´t know.

but it better be a hell of a sensor to make up for the other shortcomings!!

 

[preppyak]

if it would be a hybrid sensor.. ok.... but it´s not.
so why making another sensor an not using the 5D MK3 sensor?

If I had to guess, I'd say it's two things

1. It will be slightly worse than the 5dIII sensor, to keep the differentiation. The DR will be slightly less, the high ISO will be 1/2-1 stop worse, and the video will have more moire/aliasing.

2. There are still plenty of consumers who can't differentiate between spec sheets and rely on MP. So, now Canon has the logical upgrade path of 18mp for their APS-C, 20MP for their entry full-frame, and 22MP for their 5dIII. And the 1DX is differentiated by being $6k+

It's about the only way it makes sense to me, unless their was a reason to try and make it match the AF system

 

[Gothmoth]

1. It will be slightly worse than the 5dIII sensor, to keep the differentiation. The DR will be slightly less, the high ISO will be 1/2-1 stop worse, and the video will have more moire/aliasing.

well compared to sony/nikon they already lack behind (*).
there is no price to win in making a even "worser" sensor.

and what you wrote about (moire, DR, high iso) why not using the 5D Mk2 sensor then?
the 5D MK2 is exactly as you describe it.
no need to develop a new sensor, only to make it a bit worse then the 5D MK3 sensor.

(*) and trust me i can tell from my customers that most of them buying a 2000-3000$ camera are well aware of that fact. but then im not a online retailer....

2. There are still plenty of consumers who can't differentiate between spec sheets and rely on MP. So, now Canon has the logical upgrade path of 18mp for their APS-C, 20MP for their entry full-frame, and 22MP for their 5dIII. And the 1DX is differentiated by being $6k+

again... from my experience the 2000-3000$ customers are not such noobs anymore.

 

[psolberg]

simple. they wanted to protect the 5DmkIII. if they sold you the same sensor, they wouldn't be able to do that. They also can't go high MP if they want to stay low cost so they had to cripple the 6D or risk nuking their own 5DIII.

 

[Gothmoth]

simple. they wanted to protect the 5DmkIII. if they sold you the same sensor, they wouldn't be able to do that. They also can't go high MP if they want to stay low cost so they had to cripple the 6D or risk nuking their own 5DIII.

imho that argument makes no real sense... the 7D has the same sensor as the 550D.

there is enough to differentiate the two models.
you don´t have to research and develop a new sensor for that.

 

[Gothmoth]

simple. they wanted to protect the 5DmkIII. if they sold you the same sensor, they wouldn't be able to do that. They also can't go high MP if they want to stay low cost so they had to cripple the 6D or risk nuking their own 5DIII.

imho that argument makes no real sense... the 7D has the same sensor as the 550D.

there is enough to differentiate the two models.
you don´t have to research and develop a new sensor for that.

But look at what happened with the 1Ds3 and the 5D2. The 5D2 pretty much killed the 1Ds3.

If the 6D had the same sensor as the 5D3 (or better) then you can bet your a** that the 6D would have taken a large number of sales away from the 5D3.

that´s correct but it was a special case imo.

a sensor is not the only thing that differentiates two camera models.
the 1Ds3 had the bad luck that the 5D MK2 was good enough at that moment for most.

but with the 11 point AF system and all the other shortcomings, the 5D MK3 sensor would not make the 6D SUCH a better deal.

and still the question remains... why not using the 5D MK2 sensor then?

 

[simonxu11]

According to Canon USA the image format of 6D is 35.8mm x 23.9mm, 5D2 is 36mm x 24mm.
I guess Canon just trim down the 5D2's sensor a bit. Maybe the AF is also modified from the 9 point AF in the 5D2. In this way, Canon is able to use these 4 years old parts to create a new body, reduce the overstocked 5D2 sensors and AF module and cut the cost a lot. Three birds with one stone.

 

[Gothmoth]

According to Canon USA the image format of 6D is 35.8mm x 23.9mm, 5D2 is 36mm x 24mm.
I guess Canon just trim down the 5D2's sensor a bit. Maybe the AF is also modified from the 9 point AF in the 5D2. In this way, Canon is able to use these 4 years old parts to create a new body, reduce the overstocked 5D2 sensors and AF module and cut the cost a lot. Three birds with one stone.

yeah... thought about it.

but please... NO.

selling the old sensor as NEW developed sensor to the public.
that would be too cheap even for canon... not?

 

[sandymandy]

I dont think anything else besides different amount of pixels is a "new developement".

@ above me

This would be too cheap for Canon?

Just see what Leica did with their totally different *cough* M9-P. Remove a red dot and sell it for more cash to ONLY well earning customers...

 

[UrbanVoyeur]

I think it is quite simple - this is the best Canon can do at this price point. I believe Canon is still struggling with the production yields of is high MP full frame sensors.

This 20 MP full frame could very well be the same sensor as in the 5D, but produced to less exacting standards, by either grouping/averaging or ignoring under-performing pixels. It is a common practice in sensor production. Sony does the same with its FF sensors.

 

[K-amps]

According to Canon USA the image format of 6D is 35.8mm x 23.9mm, 5D2 is 36mm x 24mm.
I guess Canon just trim down the 5D2's sensor a bit. Maybe the AF is also modified from the 9 point AF in the 5D2. In this way, Canon is able to use these 4 years old parts to create a new body, reduce the overstocked 5D2 sensors and AF module and cut the cost a lot. Three birds with one stone.

+1 !!

 

[Gothmoth]

I think it is quite simple - this is the best Canon can do at this price point. I believe Canon is still struggling with the production yields of is high MP full frame sensors.

high MP fullframe sensors... high compared to what?

I think it is quite simple - this is the best Canon can do at this price point. I believe Canon is still struggling with the production yields of is high MP full frame sensors.

so they decided to put money in R&D to produce yet another FF sensor instead of using the 5D MK2 sensor?

if it is a new developed sensor and not some camouflaged 5D MK2 sensor.

 

[K-amps]

According to Canon USA the image format of 6D is 35.8mm x 23.9mm, 5D2 is 36mm x 24mm.
I guess Canon just trim down the 5D2's sensor a bit. Maybe the AF is also modified from the 9 point AF in the 5D2. In this way, Canon is able to use these 4 years old parts to create a new body, reduce the overstocked 5D2 sensors and AF module and cut the cost a lot. Three birds with one stone.

yeah... thought about it.

but please... NO.

selling the old sensor as NEW developed sensor to the public.
that would be too cheap even for canon... not?

Taking the 5d2 sensor and making the edges redundant (either via firmware or otherwise) could be construed as a re-design...

You are talking about the company that uses the same 18mp APS-C sensor in multiple offerings... why are you surprised?

 

[Gothmoth]

According to Canon USA the image format of 6D is 35.8mm x 23.9mm, 5D2 is 36mm x 24mm.
I guess Canon just trim down the 5D2's sensor a bit. Maybe the AF is also modified from the 9 point AF in the 5D2. In this way, Canon is able to use these 4 years old parts to create a new body, reduce the overstocked 5D2 sensors and AF module and cut the cost a lot. Three birds with one stone.

yeah... thought about it.

but please... NO.

selling the old sensor as NEW developed sensor to the public.
that would be too cheap even for canon... not?

You are talking about the company that uses the same 18mp APS-C sensor in multiple offerings... why are you surprised?

pretty obvious why i would be suprised.... don´t you think?

they did NOT tell us that the 18 MP sensors are new developed each time a new model was released.... we knew the 550D, 60D, 600D and 7D have the same sensor (or 99,5% the same).

if what he wrote is true .... it´s more or less a lie what canon is telling their customers.
selling us a 5 year old technology as "new developed".


ps: i say 5 years old because the sensor development is is older then the camera.

 

[meli]

According to Canon USA the image format of 6D is 35.8mm x 23.9mm, 5D2 is 36mm x 24mm.
I guess Canon just trim down the 5D2's sensor a bit. Maybe the AF is also modified from the 9 point AF in the 5D2. In this way, Canon is able to use these 4 years old parts to create a new body, reduce the overstocked 5D2 sensors and AF module and cut the cost a lot. Three birds with one stone.

nice catch

 

[preppyak]

I'm not well versed in sensor technology, but the pixel-pitch of this new sensor is significantly higher than the 5dII and 5dIII sensor, so, it leads me to believe its a new sensor in some format.

 

[Gothmoth]

I'm not well versed in sensor technology, but the pixel-pitch of this new sensor is significantly higher than the 5dII and 5dIII sensor, so, it leads me to believe its a new sensor in some format.

where did you find that info?
have they posted it on dpreview?

 

[AJ]

According to Canon USA the image format of 6D is 35.8mm x 23.9mm, 5D2 is 36mm x 24mm.
I guess Canon just trim down the 5D2's sensor a bit. Maybe the AF is also modified from the 9 point AF in the 5D2. In this way, Canon is able to use these 4 years old parts to create a new body, reduce the overstocked 5D2 sensors and AF module and cut the cost a lot. Three birds with one stone.

nice catch

I wonder if those missing pixels could be activated with a firmware hack?

As it stands right now it's not really a FF cam - it's a crop camera with a 1.006x crop factor....

 

[Omar H]

this camera doesn't make any sense to me, other than justifying that they do indeed have a ff entry level camera, so from Canon it would be a message to us in the range of stop bitching about the 5d3 price and get this if you don't like the price. s##w u anyways!

As things start to unveil, we might see the goodness in this camera, but I'd still go for a 5dII hands down, rather than this.