6D Sync speed only 1/180s?
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Gothmoth
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Mt Spokane Photography said:
well you are obviously no photographer or you would not write such bull$hit.
to lazy to explain it to you in my bad english:
http://strobist.blogspot.de/2012/09/nikon-d600-think-twice-before-you-jump.html
it´s about the D600 but i hope you have the mental capabilities to translate it to the 6D...
and now canon managed to make their new camera even worse.
it´s no real help that the D600 sucks too..
and HSS is not always possible (minimum req. is the right hardware) and steals flash power too.
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Loswr
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Gothmoth said:
So you, as a real photographer, are truly put out, and your photography is severely impacted, by the loss of 1/6-stop of sync speed compared to the 5DII? A whole 1/6-stop. Wow. Can you explain what critical difference that 1/6-stop will make in your photography?
The blogger shoots Nikon - their FF digital bodies had 1/250 s, prior to the D600. Those in Canonland gave up that 1/3-stop down to 1/200 s with the 5Dc.
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neuroanatomist said:
well for exactly that reason i use one of the nikons from the shop when i do strobist shots. 8)
as is said... canon managed to make it even worse then it was before.
shall i applaud them?
maybe next time they cut it down to 150/s.... well only a marginal problem i guess. :
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Loswr
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Gothmoth said:
I'd think the 1D IV would be the best bet, in that case - APS-H, but 1/300 s X-sync speed. Or try PWs, where if you select the offset carefully you can push the shutter close to a stop (1D IV gets to 1/500 s) at full power, without going into HSS territory.
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Also strange is that even the top-of-the-line Canon FFs can't do 1/300 X-Sync like the 1D3/1D4 APS-H, only 1/250, but the top-end Nikon FFs since the D3 can do it. So that fact belies the Canon apologist's excuse that the bigger travel distance for the shutter blades due to the larger FF sensor is the reason for the slower X-Sync.
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You do realize that it is more than just exposure. It is the range of flexibility coupled with action stopping speed. Somewhere between sports and weddings we need to have the flexibility to use a wide range of settings.
Granted the 6D will never be in our repertoire with its overall lack of features, but its the disregard of professional features in a camera that is a plastic "Pro" toy that makes the distaste for individual features such a big issue. Yes we could get by with a slow sync speed, and maybe deal with 1/4000 max shutter speed. But for us, whose entire income comes from photography, we need to nit pick the options our manufacturer offers us as it can influence our work. Now i know most people say it is the artist, not the brush, but these camera's are tools, and these tools can allow us to capture moments in time that can never be retrieved. So a tool that isn't up to the task at hand will never be a viable option for us. The Sync speed may never be a problem for most, nor the max shutter speed. So yes some of us may be "Armchair Spec Readers" but that is because our lively hood depends on the tools we use everyday.
Granted the 6D will never be in our repertoire with its overall lack of features, but its the disregard of professional features in a camera that is a plastic "Pro" toy that makes the distaste for individual features such a big issue. Yes we could get by with a slow sync speed, and maybe deal with 1/4000 max shutter speed. But for us, whose entire income comes from photography, we need to nit pick the options our manufacturer offers us as it can influence our work. Now i know most people say it is the artist, not the brush, but these camera's are tools, and these tools can allow us to capture moments in time that can never be retrieved. So a tool that isn't up to the task at hand will never be a viable option for us. The Sync speed may never be a problem for most, nor the max shutter speed. So yes some of us may be "Armchair Spec Readers" but that is because our lively hood depends on the tools we use everyday.
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I don't like it, but I can understand why. It's not just an arbitrary limitation to gimp it vs. the 5D3, shutter curtains that can traverse a FF sensor faster (so the slit can be larger in the case of x-sync) need to be lighter and stronger to be reliable. Lighter and stronger means titanium or carbon fiber, and that means expensive. I would guess the 6D has aluminum curtains. When they're trying to hit a price point every cent counts. (although I think they took it a little too far this time)
Cheaper and slower gets us only 1/180 X-sync, 1/4000 max, and 100,000 cycles.
Cheaper and slower gets us only 1/180 X-sync, 1/4000 max, and 100,000 cycles.
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Unposed-Jeff said:
If you're a pro, why would you even be looking at the 6D? Don't get me wrong, I think the 1/180th kinda sucks for amateur strobists. But, someone who makes their livelihood from photography probably shouldn't be looking at "entry-level" FF cameras, right? Canon's not marketing this camera to or making it for pros, they're doing it for enthusiasts with lots of spare cash. The 1D's, the 5D's, and the 7D are the pro tools. If I made my living off photography, I wouldn't trust any other Canon DSLRs to be my main tool.
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Loswr
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Noink Fanb0i said:
For a purported Noink Fanb0i, you're remarkably ill-informed about your preferred products. Check the specs for the D3, D3x, D3s, and D4, and they all state:
Flash Sync Speed Up to 1/250 sec.
So, the real facts, as opposed to those you apparently pulled from some dark orifice, seem to belie not Canon's apologetics, but rather your inability to read a spec sheet.
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theqspeaks said:
Thats exactly the problem. This camera is a Pro model, but it sounds like canon is dumbing and watering down the Pro bloodline. And being that our entire living comes from these tools it is imperative that we keep tabs on the new technology even if it isn't the tool for us. It is also good for those of us who use these tools full time as well as all of the part-timers and hobbyists to discuss these tools for our own understanding as well as for the advancement of the products.
We all know that this sync speed and max shutter are not physical limitations but rather Canon introduced limits to separate the 6D from the 5d3. All while making FF affordable to the world minus the AF limits and other assorted suck with this camera. It worries me that cheapening the FF cameras will only make the Professional Photogs life much harder as anyone can now afford a pro camera. The hard part for us will be distinguishing ourselves from the people who have the tools but don't have the foggiest idea how they can really be used to capture so many great moments in time.
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Loswr
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Unposed-Jeff said:
How do 'we' know that? The 1D X has a shutter capable of 12 fps and 1/250 s X-sync, with 400K cycle durability, and likely a lot of engineering R&D went into that. The 5DIII is 6 fps, 1/200 s X-sync, and 150K durability. The fact that the 6D only goes to 4.5 fps (despite the same Digic5+ with fewer MP to process), and the reduced 100K durability, rather strongly suggest that the slower X-sync is a direct result of the slower, cheaper shutter - a physical limitation. So...you can leave me out of 'we all'.
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I have to admit.. I don't understand why this is an issue at all.
Based on my (very limited) understanding, your flash is only on for 1/1000th of a second. So it shouldn't matter whether the sync speed is 1/180, 1/200, or 1/500....
What am I missing?
Based on my (very limited) understanding, your flash is only on for 1/1000th of a second. So it shouldn't matter whether the sync speed is 1/180, 1/200, or 1/500....
What am I missing?
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Leadfingers said:
You're not missing anything. If you know what in the hell you're doing, you can really do wonders with high flash sync modes. I agree with you, learn some photography to overcome the base sync speed. I typically just open my aperture a stop to let in more light, then flash away at 1/5000 even. It's not hard.
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Unposed-Jeff said:
I disagree that Canon considers this a true "pro" camera. In the press release for the 6D, they call it a "mid-range" camera "designed for advanced amateurs." Yes, the release talks about pro-quality features, but that's likely mostly just marketing--trying to encourage enthusiasts and semi-pros to step up to a more expensive camera. And, considering how much disdain pros have for the 6D already, it's kinda contradictory to claim that the 6D is a "pro model" while at the same time saying that it is totally insufficient for pros.
Regardless, your argument about the 6D making life harder for pros is absurd on its face. If some newb can make better photos on a 6D than you, the Professional Photog, can make on a 5D3, then you're doing something wrong, not Canon. If you can't distinguish your work from people with a 6D who "don't have the foggiest idea" how to use it, what does that say about your skills as a pro?
Look, I'm not trying to start a flame war or put you down in any way. Obviously, pros needs to keep up on the newest gear to know what tools are available to them for their profession. And, the 6D probably isn't an ideal tool for many pros. But that doesn't mean the 6D is a bad camera. For Canon users, it has significantly lowered the cost of moving into the FF world. And Canon has created the smallest and lightest FF ever (which might appeal to some landscape photogs), and that ain't nothing.
Just like how for some folks the 7D is/was a better choice than the 5D2, the 6D is gonna be good for some and not for others. If you do strobist, the 6D (and Canons generally) isn't your best bet because of the flash sync. And, going back to the OP's original question, if I was a big strobist enthusiast hoping to upgrade from my Canon crop sensor to a Canon FF, yeah, I'd probably be pissed.
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