6dmk2 with 5dmk4 sensor; should we pay more for it?

[garret]

If Canon want to survive in the entry-full-size camera market, Canon must make version of the 6 dmk2 with the sensor from the 5 dmk4 including 4K video and high DR, not in 4 years , but next year/ ASAP.

Would you pay more for this camera and how much?

I think Canon should lower the price right now for the current 6 dmk2 by 200 $ and ask $2250 for the <6 D mk2R> version, I would willingly pay for it.

Garret, the Netherlands

 

[Khristo]

They kinda seem to be surviving...

 

[Talys]

If Canon want to survive in the entry-full-size camera market, Canon must make version of the 6 dmk2 with the sensor from the 5 dmk4 including 4K video and high DR, not in 4 years , but next year/ ASAP.

Would you pay more for this camera and how much?

I think Canon should lower the price right now for the current 6 dmk2 by 200 $ and ask $2250 for the <6 D mk2R> version, I would willingly pay for it.

Garret, the Netherlands

Why not just get rid of the 6DMkII, put a flippy screen on the 5DMkIV, and sell it for $2,250?

Ok, now, in all seriousness, I think there would just be too many cameras in Canon's lineup. $2,000 is simply a price point, and it's a fine one for entry level FF, sitting slightly above 7Dx in price. We can debate "how good" the sensor should be in that offering, of course.

I do not think that it makes any financial sense for Canon to put the 5DIV sensor into the 6DII, because people who just do still photography and don't care about dual cards or weather sealing, which I suspect is a fair number of people, will just never consider 5DIV if there is a $2250 offering that fulfills their needs. And I'm pretty sure that just like $2,000 is a price point, $3,300 is also a price point that Canon in its market research has identified as the optimal price to maximize its profits.

Since 5DIV is extremely popular, I think that they are pricing it correctly; and as long as it is selling well (not to mention the best-selling FF camera...), there is not really any incentive for Canon to reduce its price, or transfer its best features into much cheaper cameras.

Or put another way, there are plenty of people who don't think $3,300 is too much to pay for the 5DIV.

 

[Maximilian]

If Canon want to survive in the entry-full-size camera market, Canon must make version of the 6 dmk2 with the sensor from the 5 dmk4 including 4K video and high DR, not in 4 years , but next year/ ASAP.
...

Hi garret!

Do you know the numbers of sales/preorders of the 6DMkII as it is now? (I don't.)
So I cannot make any assumptions on verbalizations like "want to survive", "must make" and so on.

Even if sales numbers would show that the 6DMkII would be DOA - something I really don't believe - I suppose that implementing major changes to this body - like the change of the sensor unit and therefore the whole main board would take almost the same development efforts and time as building up a whole new body.
So if this is not already in the development pipeline you could wait as long as for the introduction of the 6DMkIII.

And with this conclusion the rest of your post is obsolete.
The only thing that could happen is that we'll see early high rebates on the 6DMkII if the sales numbers weren't right in the opinion of Canon.

 

[jolyonralph]

Canon have a lot of experience at selling cameras. They know that current 6D owners currently have four choices.

a) buy the 6D II even though it's not as high spec as we'd like
b) buy the 5D IV even though it's more expensive than we'd want
c) switch to another brand (unlikely for those of us with lens investment)
d) stay with what we have and wait for another couple of years (because we won't see a 6D III or whatever for AT LEAST 2 more years, probably double that)

Canon will have done this plan in far more detail with market research to back this up.

Companies like Canon simply don't launch a new product based on gut feeling about how well it will sell. There is considerable research.

So, let me correct the original statement.

If Canon want to survive in the entry-full-size camera market, Canon must make version of the 6 dmk2 with the sensor from the 5 dmk4 including 4K video and high DR, not in 4 years , but next year/ ASAP. I want a 5D Mark IV but I can't afford it. And somehow this is Canon's fault.

 

[Mikehit]

If Canon want to survive in the entry-full-size camera market, Canon must make version of the 6 dmk2 with the sensor from the 5 dmk4 including 4K video and high DR, not in 4 years , but next year/ ASAP.

You have some massive assumptions, there. Do you have any evidence to back up what you say they have to do?
Do you know the cost of putting the 5D4 sensor in there? I don't.

 

[garret]

Do you know the numbers of sales/preorders of the 6DMkII as it is now? (I don't.)

Not only numbers are important... also which user is buying the 6dmk2? and we never will know.

I have still a 10 year old Canon 30D and was waiting for the 6 dmk2 for use in the next 10 year... now I leave the 6 dmk2, maybe I want the 80 D , but 4K video is very tempting as I have recently bought a LG 4K OLED TV,
then Canon is for me a dead end.

Garret

 

[YuengLinger]

I can never tell, when somebody has only a few posts, if they have poor English skills or are just trolling in exactly the same style as about ten others who come and go. Or if it's just a new account for the same two or three that use the same "Canon fail soon" language.

Nice way to introduce oneself.

 

[garret]

[quote I want a 5D Mark IV but I can't afford it. And somehow this is Canon's fault.][/quote]

Here in the Netherlands a 80D body cost Euro 1019,= the 6 Dmk2 body Euro 2130,= the 5 Dmk4 body Euro 4130,=
for me that's a huge difference between each model.

If I want just imaging- no 4K video- I can have the 80D plus the 100-400mm mk2 plus the 16-35mm F4 or just a 5 dmk4 body, (lenses with a focal length between them I already own).

 

[Mikehit]

I want a 5D Mark IV but I can't afford it. And somehow this is Canon's fault.]

Here in the Netherlands a 80D body cost Euro 1019,= the 6 Dmk2 body Euro 2130,= the 5 Dmk4 body Euro 4130,=
for me that's a huge difference between each model.

If I want just imaging- no 4K video- I can have the 80D plus the 100-400mm mk2 plus the 16-35mm F4 or just a 5 dmk4 body, (lenses with a focal length between them I already own).

So have you given thought to what you can do with a 6D2 that you can't do with an 80D?

 

[Sporgon]

@garret, what you're describing is the 6DIII What else is Canon supposed to do when in four years time the 6DII is due to be replaced ?

Just as the 5DV will have a flip screen.

But to answer your question I would guess that given the overall projected sales of the 6DII over its production lifetime, the amount of people who would be willing to pay more for the 5DIV sensor would be minuscule, and not worth Canon bothering with.

 

[Maximilian]

Do you know the numbers of sales/preorders of the 6DMkII as it is now? (I don't.)

Not only numbers are important... also which user is buying the 6dmk2? and we never will know.

I have still a 10 year old Canon 30D and was waiting for the 6 dmk2 for use in the next 10 year... now I leave the 6 dmk2, maybe I want the 80 D , but 4K video is very tempting as I have recently bought a LG 4K OLED TV,
then Canon is for me a dead end.

Garret

Hi garret!

I don't want to muzzle you and I don't take your opinion as trolling.
I also don't want to argue you into doing something.

Reading your comment quoted above, I'd like to give you the following advices:

• please make up your mind, if FF will enhance your photography to a new level, otherwise stay with APS-C and save money
• if you decide for FF please note that the money spend on the body is just the beginning. You want to get high performance glass as well
• If you think Canon does not offer, what you want/need, jump boat
• if you think 4K is tempting, think how important video is to you. If it's not your main topic, HD is more than enough. Do you want to see each hair inside the pore on the nose? Me not! And your model surely not, as well
• If you now still use a 30D as main body, let me tell you that whatever body you choose today you will see significant improvement on IQ, especially when you go above ISO 800

So please don't go that much after narcissistic reviews or some ridiculous scores, trying to make a world out of a less than 5% difference.
Better think which system offers you the best ergonomics and comfort and then try out a new body yourself. You will be very positively surprised and not willing to skip another generation.
Good luck with your decisions.

 

[LonelyBoy]

Do you know the numbers of sales/preorders of the 6DMkII as it is now? (I don't.)

Not only numbers are important... also which user is buying the 6dmk2? and we never will know.

I have still a 10 year old Canon 30D and was waiting for the 6 dmk2 for use in the next 10 year... now I leave the 6 dmk2, maybe I want the 80 D , but 4K video is very tempting as I have recently bought a LG 4K OLED TV,
then Canon is for me a dead end.

Garret

Putting 1080P on a 4k TV is not a "dead end", any more than the fact that when I get my next TV it will have 4k and... mostly display 1080p, or less, because that's most of what's available. For example, all football games. It might be nice to make your videos be 4k, but are you prepared for the rest of 4k video production? I've never done it (or any video, really), but my understanding is it requires a ferociously powerful desktop and isn't really something you just pick up on a whim.

 

[Mikehit]

can never tell, when somebody has only a few posts, if they have poor English skills or are just trolling in exactly the same style as about ten others who come and go. Or if it's just a new account for the same two or three that use the same "Canon fail soon" language

Thank you American Soldier, I have more then 850 posts on the American Cloudy Nights forum for Astronomy,
I have made hundreds of astronomical images with my IR modified Canon 5 dmk2 and my $50000,= telescope.
Why not just answer my question 'should we pay more for a better 6d Mk2'? or don't reply.

If you want Astro, then the 7D2 seems to be an excellent tool. Have you seen the Clarkvison website where he compares different camera for astronomical photography?


But back to your question. I would pay more for it, yes especially at a difference of only $200.
But the camera is not aimed at me it is aimed at the general market and one of the toughest jobs out there is calculating (more accurately, guessing) what the market will pay. And in this estimate psychological markers come into play: the simplest of these, and one everyone is aware of, is that 1,999 sounds so much cheaper than 2,001, so if they had put the 5D4 sensor in there instead of the current one and launched at $2,200 it is probable they would not have hit sales targets, not met their cashflow forecasts and had to sell the remaining units at a lower than expected profit margin. And bear in mind, a 10% drop in cost (which is what you are proposing) is in the region of a 25-30% drop in profits for a typical company.
On simple decisions of 'what would people pay' and 'how much can we cram into it at that price', the company will survive or fail.

So would I buy it? Very probably. Would it be successful for Canon? Canon obviously decided it would not be.

 

[Mikehit]

Don't forget I'm asking a question: should we pay more for a 6 dmk2 with 5 dmk4 sensor? just asking, nothing more.

Gerrit van der Veen, The Netherlands

That sounds different t your original question.
In your OP you were asking 'would you pay more'
Here you seem to be asking 'if Canon had put the 5D4 sensor in there instead of the current sensor, would they be justified in charging more'.

I suspect they would charge more and that that increase in cost would be justified.

 

[Maximilian]

...
Don't forget I'm asking a question: should we pay more for a 6 dmk2 with 5 dmk4 sensor? just asking, nothing more.

Gerrit van der Veen, The Netherlands

And I already answered in my first post:

...
And with this conclusion the rest of your post is obsolete.
The only thing that could happen is that we'll see early high rebates on the 6DMkII if the sales numbers weren't right in the opinion of Canon.

 

[Larsskv]

Canon have a lot of experience at selling cameras. [...]

So, let me correct the original statement.

If Canon want to survive in the entry-full-size camera market, Canon must make version of the 6 dmk2 with the sensor from the 5 dmk4 including 4K video and high DR, not in 4 years , but next year/ ASAP. I want a 5D Mark IV but I can't afford it. And somehow this is Canon's fault.

+1.

I understand that people want the best sensor available in the 6DII, but I also understand that Canon wants people to buy the 5DIV over the 6DII.

Personally, I think Canon has given 6DII the features that the market they are aming at will appreciate, and I expect 6DII owners to be happy owners, just at the 6D owners are.

Dynamic range seem to matter a lot more in forums and many reviews, than it does in real world use. Ergonomics, handling, ease of use, high ISO-capabilities and lenses are way more important to most photografers, than DR and 5 stops shadow lifting capabilities.

 

[candc]

hypothetically? i may have bought a 6dii for a couple hundred dollars more if it had the best sensor tech canon has available.

i would have bought a 5dsr if it had a real crop mode too.

this segmentation/crippling is irritating. i keep saying that i am never buying another canon dslr but now i am thinking about buying a idxii.

i may not like canon's market strategy with their camera bodies but it seems to be working for them.

 

[Mikehit]

hypothetically? i may have bought a 6dii for a couple hundred dollars more if it had the best sensor tech canon has available.

i would have bought a 5dsr if it had a real crop mode too.

this segmentation/crippling is irritating. i keep saying that i am never buying another canon dslr but now i am thinking about buying a idxii.

i may not like canon's market strategy with their camera bodies but it seems to be working for them.

Every company segments the market and if they didn't they would have one model to do everything.

 

[candc]

hypothetically? i may have bought a 6dii for a couple hundred dollars more if it had the best sensor tech canon has available.

i would have bought a 5dsr if it had a real crop mode too.

this segmentation/crippling is irritating. i keep saying that i am never buying another canon dslr but now i am thinking about buying a idxii.

i may not like canon's market strategy with their camera bodies but it seems to be working for them.

Every company segments the market and if they didn't they would have one model to do everything.

i realize that camera manufacturers make different models for different purposes but what canon is doing seems different than sony. the a9, a7rii, a6500, a99 and rx100 all seem to be the best product that sony could put out for their intended purposes.

canon seems to intentionally limit the capabilities of their camera bodies to force you to buy several or a more expensive one.