70D and Dxomark....

[ahab1372]

So, you're saying I shouldn't have tried to take a picture from inside a pitch black tunnel and capture the graffiti sprayed on the black walls with black paint and in the same shot capture the kids' white chalk drawings on the white sidewalk in full sun just outside the tunnel? Was that where I went wrong? I bet a D7100 could have done it, though, right? Sadly, I'm stuck with this PoS, poor dynamic range 1D X. As the actor-turned-Mayor-of-Carmel once said, "A man's got to know his limitations."

Lol, at least you have a slightly better chance with that tunnel than I do. I better get down to Carmel soon, maybe book a room at that actor's ranch, before the foggy season ends. They also don't have those tunnels down there AFAIK

 

[garyknrd]

I fight with DR daily but, It seems most do not expose to the right? A couple of pages back I saw a mention of it.

Actually I can shoot pretty close to the Nikon D4 with this technique. The only thing that bugs me is. Shooting beside a D4. It is less work for them.
Same with ISO, I would muchhhhh rather take my ISO higher and shoot to the right than to expose to a neutral setting. I can get close to the D4, but they do not worry about it that much.

There is an advantage to Nikon. But not as much as you think.
I don't change to Nikon because....... ( glass ) And to my surprise, my Nikon friends are envious of the Canon glass. To the point of switching to Canon? And I am not a Canon fanboy at all.

www.flickr.com/photos/avianphotos

 

[9VIII]

So I was looking at some resolution charts for lenses yesterday.

Man the Nikon 70-200 f2.8 VR 2 sucks, like, those corners are terrible. To think that Nikon shooters have been wasting their lives with glass like that for so many years, almost half a decade now, sheesh, and it's so obvious too. It's like they've all got their head in the sand or something. I mean, obviously whatever talent you have is being severely limited if you use that system.

yes, the 70-200/2,8 VR2 is not the best regarding corners and together with a 24x36mm sensor, it is like a lot of lenses soft, and compared with for example Canon 70-200mk2 is the canon is much better
Now , it is not the only lens Nikon has, like Canon they have several and with better corner sharpness

Not the 24-70 2.8 though or 70-300 either.

Eventually if it really finally seems like Canon truly will never bother with more DR for another decade or two, I will switch, but I'd rather not if I don't have to. I'm starting to almost feel like it might be another decade for them or more. If the next round doesn't do anything for DR I wont buy it and will probably stop moving up in lenses, perhaps even dabble with a single lens and a Nikon as a second body and hope there is some sign the 5D5 round will do it, if it looks like not then I might finally switch over (keeping 5D3 and a simple lens or two for video if Nikon hasn't gotten anything going for video by then).

You'd actually switch over 2 stops of dynamic range? If Sony started making sensors with 20 stops of range that would be another thing, but if they stick at 13 (on average) and Canon stays around 11 (again, on average), that seems like a pretty minor issue to me.
If you look at the two flagship models, the 1DX and D4, it's only a 1.4 stop difference. Is that really such a huge lead? Heck, if you look at the variation within Nikons own current production models there's almost as much difference within Nikon as there is between the worst models from both companies.
Heaven forbid someone use a D4 instead of a D800.
Of course all else being equal it's a clear choice, but I have a feeling it'll never come to that, at least not within my lifetime.

 

[tnargs]

The point of ETTR is to allow more light to hit the sensor.

No, the point of ETTR is to avoid blown highlights while not losing detail in shadows. It might mean less light hitting the sensor, if average metering was going to blow important highlights.

 

[tnargs]

When I used a pair of Nikons for a few months, I had to be more careful not to overexpose. Whether because of the metering or the sensor, I don't know. On balance, these are not big differences. You just learn and make slight adjustments.

You might learn and make adjustments with a Nikon sensor, but if it is a Canon sensor, the only thing to do is go on Canon forums and blast the whole brand!

 

[tnargs]

So I was looking at some resolution charts for lenses yesterday.

Man the Nikon 70-200 f2.8 VR 2 sucks, like, those corners are terrible. To think that Nikon shooters have been wasting their lives with glass like that for so many years, almost half a decade now, sheesh, and it's so obvious too. It's like they've all got their head in the sand or something. I mean, obviously whatever talent you have is being severely limited if you use that system.

And yet, do we see Nikon users, 10 times a day, 10 times an hour, beating the beejeezus out of Nikon on the Nikon forums for the wide open corner performance of this lens? Do we see Canon users dropping in on Nikon forums and chortling arrogantly, and constantly posting pics of comparative wide open corner shots?

Why not? Is someone, somewhere, having an attack of courtesy?

 

[Don Haines]

I might even go and...(gasp)...take a photo or two, and...(gasp)...enjoy it!

I tried that, but the fact that I have only 11 stops of DR just sucked the joy right out of it. :

Yeah, I've been feeling a little deflated, too, now that I've learned I can't really take photos of much more than pigeons on a concrete overpass on an overcast day. Maybe there's a local support group that can help...

And with the limited DR of my camera, I am unable to raise detail out of the shadows.....

 

[Pi]

The point of ETTR is to allow more light to hit the sensor.

No, the point of ETTR is to avoid blown highlights while not losing detail in shadows. It might mean less light hitting the sensor, if average metering was going to blow important highlights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposing_to_the_right

In digital photography, exposing to the right (ETTR) is the technique of increasing the exposure of an image in order to collect the maximum amount of light and thus get the optimum performance out of the digital image sensor.

 

[9VIII]

So I was looking at some resolution charts for lenses yesterday.

Man the Nikon 70-200 f2.8 VR 2 sucks, like, those corners are terrible. To think that Nikon shooters have been wasting their lives with glass like that for so many years, almost half a decade now, sheesh, and it's so obvious too. It's like they've all got their head in the sand or something. I mean, obviously whatever talent you have is being severely limited if you use that system.

And yet, do we see Nikon users, 10 times a day, 10 times an hour, beating the beejeezus out of Nikon on the Nikon forums for the wide open corner performance of this lens? Do we see Canon users dropping in on Nikon forums and chortling arrogantly, and constantly posting pics of comparative wide open corner shots?

Why not? Is someone, somewhere, having an attack of courtesy?

No-one's having a courtesy attack, it's just less fun to take cheap shots at the underdog.

Edit: Hmm, after seeing the other response below it looks like Tnargs may have been trying to complement the Canon userbase, which is commendable, and my response was a bit snappy.
Unfortunately it's still true, if Nikon was four times larger than Canon the Nikon Rumors forum would probably be just as much a mess.

 

[duydaniel]

The point of ETTR is to allow more light to hit the sensor.

No, the point of ETTR is to avoid blown highlights while not losing detail in shadows. It might mean less light hitting the sensor, if average metering was going to blow important highlights.

You are confused. You cannot avoid blowing up highlight and not retaining shadow detail at the same time. ETTR is basically over expose your image a bit

 

[verysimplejason]

The point of ETTR is to allow more light to hit the sensor.

No, the point of ETTR is to avoid blown highlights while not losing detail in shadows. It might mean less light hitting the sensor, if average metering was going to blow important highlights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposing_to_the_right

In digital photography, exposing to the right (ETTR) is the technique of increasing the exposure of an image in order to collect the maximum amount of light and thus get the optimum performance out of the digital image sensor.

+1. It's all about getting as much light as you can without clipping the highlights while reducing the shadows. It's equivalent to an overexposure of around 1/3 EV.

 

[dgatwood]

And with the limited DR of my camera, I am unable to raise detail out of the shadows.....

I'm fairly sure Shadow doesn't particularly care to have its tail raised. Good way to get mauled.

 

[aj1575]

I won a Photo Contest lately! My picture had a dynamic range 13,4EV at signal to noise ratio of 37,3dB. The second best only manged 12,9EV an 36,8dB.....

 

[Apop]

So I was looking at some resolution charts for lenses yesterday.

Man the Nikon 70-200 f2.8 VR 2 sucks, like, those corners are terrible. To think that Nikon shooters have been wasting their lives with glass like that for so many years, almost half a decade now, sheesh, and it's so obvious too. It's like they've all got their head in the sand or something. I mean, obviously whatever talent you have is being severely limited if you use that system.

And yet, do we see Nikon users, 10 times a day, 10 times an hour, beating the beejeezus out of Nikon on the Nikon forums for the wide open corner performance of this lens? Do we see Canon users dropping in on Nikon forums and chortling arrogantly, and constantly posting pics of comparative wide open corner shots?

Why not? Is someone, somewhere, having an attack of courtesy?

It is why I started this topic
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=16691.0

People are fixated on sensor performance, and then mostly on DR.

I am not really sure if there are Nikon users in these forums only to bash troll and attack, If so it is rather sad.

Now we just need to learn how to spot and ignore them, If no one replies to their posts their fun will be over really fast , they might even leave for an other canon forum to try and get some satisfaction !

Maybe the reason is that they envy canon glass, ergonomics or other things.....
I like Nikons green tint on the top screen when it's dark, canon has a bit yellowish (altough mine is blue).
I like that they have better sensors....

I think is should go to a Nikon forum and constantly talk about the inferior lenses.....
Keep on going about the extremely poor buffer on the d7100, and that there is no Wildlife camera in the current line up (other than the d4, which has only 16mpix on FF) for wildlife shooters that care about raw+fps+buffer ...... there is ?

Most likely the only response you will get is : But... I have superior DR

 

[hutjeflut]

Its funny how everyone keeps bashing this camera because the sensor is only a small improvement for stills.
However i think this gamera is the biggest overal jump in the history of the xxD series.

In general only the sensor improved slowly with each model and addes a few MP and a few small features.

But this time they not only slightly improved the sensor they also added other stuff thats quite welcome like
-wifi to upload to facebook flickr or clouds or even use the camera remotely over wifi with your tablet!
-a better 19 point all cross focus system from the 7D
-a touch screen
-faster live view focus
-in camera HDR which might be fun and easy
-better viewfinder coverage
-hybrid autofocus for video
-a stunning 7 fps rather then 5.3 which launched this camera into a budged sports camera
-decicated focus mode button that lets you choose focus mode while shooting and much more button layout optimisations life movie button.


so in reality this camera is a massive upgrade. and the few samples ive seen also show that the black levels and noise preformance is really visible when compared to the 7d which for its price now is the direct competitor.

 

[caruser]

The point of ETTR is to allow more light to hit the sensor.

No, the point of ETTR is to avoid blown highlights while not losing detail in shadows. It might mean less light hitting the sensor, if average metering was going to blow important highlights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposing_to_the_right

In digital photography, exposing to the right (ETTR) is the technique of increasing the exposure of an image in order to collect the maximum amount of light and thus get the optimum performance out of the digital image sensor.

+1. It's all about getting as much light as you can without clipping the highlights while reducing the shadows. It's equivalent to an overexposure of around 1/3 EV.

You can't generalise ETTR in that way, whether and by how much it overexposes or underexposes depends on what the autoexposure does (since that's the frame of reference in this case) and on the concrete scene (the maximum difference between the "average" and maximum brightness).

A dark scene with one slightly brighter spot will need a few stops of overexposure; a normally lit scene with one very very bright object will need some underexposure.

So I'd say that Wikipedia is wrong; ETTR is a "technique" to ensure the best exposure without clipping the highlights. In some cases it increases the exposure, in others it decreases it. If ETTR were a simple overexposure or underexposure we wouldn't need a new term for it.

 

[whothafunk]

But this time they not only slightly improved the sensor they also added other stuff thats quite welcome like
-a better 19 point all cross focus system from the 7D

a BETTER AF? by removing 2 functions (spot and expansion)? bollocks. who stated that 70D has a better AF and than a 7D?

 

[Loswr]

But this time they not only slightly improved the sensor they also added other stuff thats quite welcome like
-a better 19 point all cross focus system from the 7D

a BETTER AF? by removing 2 functions (spot and expansion)? bollocks. who stated that 70D has a better AF and than a 7D?

I'm pretty sure the reference meant better than the 60D.

 

[Murilo_mms]

The discussion of sensor performance vs DxOMark is pointless. I was a Nikon user (D5000, D90, D700, D3s and D4) and now I own 5DIII and never been so satisfied. The colors I get now are far better than before and I have now much less work with raw files.

We only need the Nikon´s DR if we need to use +3 to +5 of exposure compensation on revelation of Raw files. And if someone are doing that is better learn how to use his camera...

Before my brand change I was affraid most because the results of DxOMark, but I was confident on my friends that own Canon and they NEVER complain about that.

High Iso performance? From 100 to 6400 the 5DIII is very, very close to D4 with much more resolution. Only above 6400 the D4 start to show difference. With 25600 we have much difference for D4, but how many photos we get with this iso?

Now I am much happy and I read DxOMark sensor tests just for fun. His lenses tests are far better.

 

[whothafunk]

But this time they not only slightly improved the sensor they also added other stuff thats quite welcome like
-a better 19 point all cross focus system from the 7D

a BETTER AF? by removing 2 functions (spot and expansion)? bollocks. who stated that 70D has a better AF and than a 7D?

I'm pretty sure the reference meant better than the 60D.

you're right. excuse me.

but still though, not one review, not a single review has yet to compare AF between 7D in 70D. they only mention it has the same number AF points and cross type.