Canon EOS R6 Mark III & RF 45 F1.2 STM November 6

Did your 6D Mark II ever leak? (Though, again, I made the exception for build quality which includes weather resistance. And NO camera which can not be submerged in water is weather sealed. Too many talk about how "this camera has weather sealing and that camera does not have weather sealing." Unless it's an open truss telescope, all lenses have weather resistance to one degree or another, and all camera's with light boxes also have environmental barriers between the inside of the camera and the outside of the camera.)

I'm not the one that claims the R6 was a love letter. That was another user. Maybe include that in a reply to that user's comment?

In many cases the 6-Series cameras have already replaced 5-Series cameras for certain photographers. Many 5D Mark II and 5D Mark III users decided they didn't need 30+ MP and went with the 6D Mark II instead. Many more 5-Series DSLR shooters went with the R6 when the price of the R5 came in over $4K + tax in the U.S.
And yet, there are cameras and lenses which are, for instance IP 53 certified, like OMs or Leica's IP 54.
Still better than relying on hollow "weather resistant" promises.
No, not even they should be submerged, but, at least, they meet an official norm unlike all Canons, Sonies, Fujis etc...
 
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Yes, you've reminded me that I really should send my EF 70-200mm f2.8 II L off to Canon for a service. Mine is a bit battered too and I've recenently noticed that the center moves when I zoom. It's not the IS, it looks like some of the internals are de-centered slightly. It still gives amazing and sharp images...but zoom bursts look a bit off center to to the optical alignment.

That could be the IS. IS works by intentionally tilting the IS group.

If one of the plastic tabs that hold the IS stationary when not needed is broken, it might show up in the way you describe. Roger Cicala talked about those tabs a bit in several blog entries back in the day. He emphasized that IS should be turned OFF while the camera is powered on before storing and transporting it. Lensrentals had several of those lenses returned with broken tabs, and every one of them had the IS left on and not centered/parked when it was removed from the body. (The lensrentals blog appears to be offline currently or I'd include a link.)
 
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Yes, you've reminded me that I really should send my EF 70-200mm f2.8 II L off to Canon for a service. Mine is a bit battered too and I've recenently noticed that the center moves when I zoom. It's not the IS, it looks like some of the internals are de-centered slightly. It still gives amazing and sharp images...but zoom bursts look a bit off center to to the optical alignment.

If you send the lens to Canon for service be sure to include a detailed description of the problem and example images that demonstrate it. I've had much better results when doing so.
 
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This R6 Mark III forum is by far the most popular on Canon Rumors. Well over 500 comments and climbing each day. This is going to be an important camera in the Canon lineup for the next few years. So far, the rumors seem to be ringing true to the market and it should be a best seller. Cannot say the same for Sony and the A7V. The few rumors that are being leaked are not looking good. My guess is that Sony is freaking out how much Canon is advancing the technology at the same price point. They will either have to take an "L" (loss) on this model and try to do better in a couple years or just reduce the price on a minor update to the A7IV. To their credit, Sony did finally reduce the price of the A7IV from $2,700 to $2,000 (USD) and that helped move it to number one on Amazon. But it looks like the R6 III is going to have so many more features than the A7V at nearly the same price, that even Sony fanboys won't be able to ignore Canon anymore. Of course they will just continue to gloat about all of their 3rd party lenses on the FE mount still missing from RF mount. Looks like that's the only hand Sony fans will have left after the R6 III is announced on Thursday.

Yeah, it's ALL about sticking it to those Sony fanboys, isn't it?

It has nothing to do with actually going out and taking well composed, well lit photos that tell a story, does it?
 
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Camera bodies are overrated, lenses are 10 times more important. I don't like to think about fanboys of any manufacturer, I like to think on each one of us wanting to spend their money on what we consider the best tech for our needs.
I use Canon since 1999, in the film days, and never had any other 24x36 system for this 26 years, so I can be considered somewhat a Canon fanboy, but no matter what the R6 III is bringing us, I can tell you I have never been so close so switch side, to Sony, and not by the reason of "lenses", plural, but I'm ready to switch just to get ahold of a single specific lens, the Tamron 35-150, that for me is enough to bear with Sony ergonomics and menus, which I deem way inferior to Canon's.

Cameras are full of marketing gimmicks, sometimes REALLY helpful, especially in the AF department, but in the end they're just black boxes recording light via the exposure triangle, and what really makes the difference is lighting, first, and the lens, second. Camera comes in as a distant third.
I don't know if Sony fans won't be able to ignore Canon after the release of the R6 III, but I can tell you that I still won't be able to ignore Sony even if the 45 f1.2 (which is why I'm here, the R6III doesn't interest me one bit) is great and even if I'll buy it on pre-order, I'll still be thinking about that Tamron lens, and possibly ending up switching side.

Who cares about being a fan of a company? Really?

Why not buy a cheap Sony body just for that one lens? Since bodies don't matter, anyway?

Keep your Canon gear for all your other use cases. No need to "switch".
 
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I guess I am confused by the parallels you are making? :unsure:
And I guess Canon's numbering patterns do not help... :censored:

But to me the 6 lineage would be: 6D -> 6D II -> RP -> R8...
While the 5 lineage has remained more or less linear (the R is a bit of an outlier), the 6 lineage seems to have split into 8 and new 6 (R6 -> R6 II -> R6 III) that slots between the 8 and the 5.

By the way, I sympathize with your some of your considerations, being myself a non-pro prosumer who likes pro features :geek:

Other than the sensor, the EOS R was more the successor to the 6D Mark II than the RP was. Even Roger Cicala called the EOS R "a mirrorless 6D Mark II" after doing an EOS R teardown. (No one claimed the R6 was the successor to the 1D X Mark III just because it has the same sensor...)

The RP was the first budget Full Frame digital camera in Canon's history. Canon had NEVER released a FF DSLR at anywhere near that price before. There was no "previous" model in the series. Nor has there been a succeeding model in that price range and class. The R8 comes close, but it's more like a FF 80D compared to the RP being a FF 77D. (The 77D was not quite an x0D, not quite a Rebel, either.)
 
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Hello! My thinking is this:

RP clearly is a 6D2 successor

Except it's not. The RP was a new class of budget FF digital camera. The very first from Canon. The 6-Series has always been mid-grade and the 5-Series evolved from upper mid-grade with the 5D Mark II to pro-grade with the 5D Mark III (which was essentially a non-gripped 1Ds Mark IV).

The EOS R was a mirrorless 6D Mark II with a 5D Mark IV sensor. That's how Roger Cicala described it. Insisting the EOS R was a 5-Series body because it has a sensor formerly used in the 5D Mark IV is about as ridiculous as claiming the R6 is a 1-Series body because it has the same sensor as the 1D X Mark III.

There's probably an argument that the R8 also exists to placate those who used to buy the x0D series as well. Maybe it does double duty?

In that analogy the RP is the FF 77D. (The 77D is slightly more camera than a Rebel, slightly less camera than an xOD, the RP is slightly more camera than a FF Rebel, slightly less than a 6-Series.)

Having owned the 80D (well, it was my wife's and now my son's), I felt it was a fun, geeky, and relatively affordable alternative to the much more expensive full frames: it gave the "feel" of an "upscale camera" as seen in the hands of the well-heeled out on holiday, like that stranger who steps onto a float plane in Alaska with their 5Dx amidst the sea of people clutching their Best Buy bodies.

:LOL: :D:LOL::D:LOL::D

Maybe the 7D Mark II, because when looking through the viewfinder it looked like a 5-Series, or even 1-Series VF, and it did feel like a 5-Series camera when shooting with it.

But no one "stepping onto a float plane in Alaska" is mistaking a 7D or xoD for a 5-Series body "amidst a sea of Big Box store bodies." (By the way, plenty of people bought early 5-Series bodies at Best Buy. I bought a 50D body at Best Buy once upon a time when I needed it faster than FedEx could get it from B&H to me.)

Canon kind of lost that feel with the R transition, I think, although cameras like the R8 are probably their attempt to at least slot in a price equivalent. I don't think the R8 spiritually captures what was happening, but it sits at a good price point in the catalog. They'd do well, I feel, to make a mini R5 body in crop form and re-introduce the X0D series as an X0R line -- and that's where the new video functionality they've been pushing for the new gen would fit very, very comfortably for people like my kiddo and his friends. But I agree, it also fills that 6D character as well -- competent, trade-offs, but serves. Someone mentioned earlier here that the R6 is kind of the 5D of yesteryear and the R5 is something new (or maybe the new 5DS/R?), in which case the R8 is now definitely the 6D equivalent.

The transition is a lot clearer if one stops insisting that using a sensor from an older camera means the newer camera is in the same class.

Lots of Rebels had the same 18 MP sensor introduced in the 7D and the 18 MP Dual Pixel AF version introduced in the 70D. The R6 had the same sensor as the 1D X Mark III. No one insists that a Rebel Tx/x000D with the same sensor as an older xoD or xx0D is in the same class. No one insists that the R6 is a 1-Series body, even though the 2020 R6 runs circles around the 2009 1D Mark IV in every conceivable way (except maybe build quality). The limits of technology expand.

The tiers at Canon have always shifted a bit to react to market conditions.

The 20D-30D-40D-50D split off into the 2009 7D, which was a half-tier upgrade, and the 2010 60D, which was a half-tier downgrade at several points from the 50D.

The FF 1Ds series evolved into the non-integrated grip 5D Mark III when Canon gave the APS-H 1D series an 18 MP FF sensor and claimed they were unifying the 1D and 1Ds into the 1D X. It's no accident Canon's highest resolution body at the time, the 21.1 MP 1Ds Mark III was discontinued at the same time the 22.3 MP 5D Mark III was introduced with a pro grade AF system. The 2008 21.0 MP 5D Mark II was intentionally slightly lower resolution than the 2007 21.1 MP 1Ds Mark III. The 5D Mark II also had a consumer grade AF system. The 5D Mark III used the same PDAF array part number as the 1D X.

If the EOS RP had any precedent amongst Canon's DSLR bodies, it was the one-off 77D. More camera than a Rebel. Less camera than a 70D.

The 6-Series is pretty straightforward: 6D → 6D Mark II → (EOS R) → R6 → R6 Mark II → R6 Mark III.

Sure, each model in the 6-Series has better AF than the previous body. So does each model in the 1-Series. So does each model in the 5-Series. So does each model in the x0D series, in the xx0D series...

The 5-Series is a little more nuanced: 5D → 5D Mark II were consumer grade FF bodies. 1Ds → 1Ds Mark II → 1Ds Mark III were pro grade gripped FF bodies. In 2012 those two series were merged into the pro-grade but non-gripped 5D Mark III → 5D Mark IV → R5 → R5 Mark II.

As time marches on lower tier bodies have always gotten trickle down from previous higher tier bodies. But as the lower tier picks up capabilities and features previously only seen on higher tier bodies, the higher tier bodies pick up new capabilities and features that didn't previously exist in any camera.
 
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Lucky you. My copy of that lens was crap :confused:
I even sent it to repair once, but it didn't make much of a difference, it just improved slightly. Beyond 100mm mine was crap, unless I shot it at like f/11. I could get better detail by cropping from 70mm to 200mm on the 24-70mm f/2.8 II (yes, I really tested that).

That's what one gets when buying mostly used gear. Sometimes the reason someone else sold it is because it's the exception that got past QC. If you pay attention to MPB (which include photos of each actual lens including the serial numbers), you can see the same lens coming and going 4-5-6 times over several months.
 
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Feelings and numbering aside, in the DSLR era we had 3 FF bodies families (6D, 5D and 1D), now we seem to have 5 (R8, R6, R5, R3 and R1)
The transition was not 1 to 1 with the R and RP bridging the gap, and based on sensor I think initially Canon was considering replicating the same 3 EF families in the R system.
Also, we don't know if the R3 will be a one-off or not.

I guess for me it's clear that the R8 is a continuation of the 6D as the entry-level, low-cost FF camera, while the R6 seems to straddle between the lower tier and the R5 and thus it's a new family.

Not that it matters much ;) Only Canon knows for sure.
As long as a camera fulfills its purpose and gives you joy, that's all that matters to someone like me. The R5 and the H5X do that for me. Now lenses, that's anther topic :cry:

The EOS 1D (APS-H) and 1Ds (FF) line became the 18 MP 1D X (following the 16.1 MP APS-H 1D mark IV) and 22.3 MP 5D Mark III (following the 21.1 MP 1Ds Mark III). The 50D split into the half-tier higher 7D and half-tier lower 60D. Canon has constantly merged and expanded tiers as market conditions change. This is nothing new if you've been watching Canon for 25 years.

Basing only on sensor will lead you to wrong conclusions. Was the R6 a 1-Series camera because it used the 1D X Mark III sensor? Where all of those Rebels that used the 18 MP sensor first introduced with the 7D actually 7-Series cameras? Were all of those Rebels that used the Dual Pixel AF 18 MP sensor first introduced in the 70D actually x0D series cameras? Some lower tier bodies have always gotten hand-me-down sensors from higher tier models in Canon's history.
 
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We won't know when Canon will sunset the RP. It also may be a one-off or remain the bridge from xxD or even XXXD to RF even though it is full frame vs APS-C for the others.
When the R8 is a 60% premium from B&H and the R10 a 10% premium to the RP's USD900 then it still has a strong presence for the lower end bodies.

Canon will need something to move the remaining DLSR xxxxD and xxxD to RF and the R10 isn't that model at this time.

The EOS R100 comes as close as we'll probably ever see to an xx0D in the RF mount.
 
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FF is not only the camera but also the system of lenses that comes with it. Initially RF-S was lens-starved, but now with the Sigma additions it has developed into a nice little system. What I mean is that I assume that the main "lure" for EF-S holdouts is RF-S. And whoever among the EF-S holdouts was susceptible to transition to FF, most of them have probably already done so, given the time since EF(-S) has been declared "dead".


Don't they have the R50 and R100 for that? We can agree that they are limited, but so are the xxxD and xxxxD cameras...

Disclaimer: I am speculating about the market and Canon's strategy, as I do not have any data or insights beyond what we all have access to

People used to talk about how Canon "abandoned" EF-S in the early 2010s because they didn't release any significant new EF-S lenses past the late 2000s. They said the same thing about the EOS M mount. Canon released a handful of lenses that were the lenses an EOS M buyer was likely to purchase.

But fan boys were falling off cliffs complaining there was not an equivalent EF-S or EF-M lens for every FF EF lens in the catalog. That's never how Canon has done it. If you want a full catalog of dedicated crop lenses go to Micro Four-Thirds or Fuji APS-C. Canon ain't ever going there.
 
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EF(-S) is not dead in that you can still buy new gear which is under support... but it is dead in the sense that Canon is not developing the system anymore. They may build small batches of EF(-S) gear as market requires, but large parts of the systems have been discontinued now and Canon wants you to buy RF(-S)... and I think this is more than speculation ;)

That's like saying a couple who are no longer having children are dead, even though they are still raising the children they already have. Even after one retires (from their career) they're not dead as long as they are still living.
 
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People used to talk about how Canon "abandoned" EF-S in the early 2010s because they didn't release any significant new EF-S lenses past the late 2000s. They said the same thing about the EOS M mount. Canon released a handful of lenses that were the lenses an EOS M buyer was likely to purchase.

But fan boys were falling off cliffs complaining there was not an equivalent EF-S or EF-M lens for every FF EF lens in the catalog. That's never how Canon has done it. If you want a full catalog of dedicated crop lenses go to Micro Four-Thirds or Fuji APS-C. Canon ain't ever going there.
Well, I don't think anybody expects a full line of RF-s lines that exactly duplicate their full frame counterparts. And for longer focal lengths, that would be pretty meaningless. But Canon doesn't seem to want to produce any decent crop lenses. No 17-55 f/2.8. No 32 f/1.4. No 22 f/2 even. Even the lenses they had with the M mount have all but disappeared, outside of the 18-150, and it's pretty slow.

Fortunately, Sigma and others are filling in the gaps, though with sometimes extreme lenses. 17-40 f/1.8 sounds pretty good, but a 17-55 or 15-55 f/2.8 would be more useful to most.

Can't please everyone, of course, and maybe Canon letting Sigma into the fold for crop lenses is their way of dealing with the issue at the lowest cost. Designing and developing a lens does cost money after all. But for Sigma, they can design one and sell it to 3 or 4 different mounts. So it's in their best interest to sell those lenses, and maybe Canon's best interest to leave the higher end crop lenses mostly to the third part brands.
 
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I was initially dissapointed in hearing that the R6iii is retaining the same EVF unit found in the R6ii, however when I compare the EVF between my R5 and R6ii, I don't percieve much difference. I think a 3.7million dot EVF is a great threshold. I found the 2.3 mil dot EVF of the R8 and R7 to be quite poor and pixelated.
The four standout specs for the R6iii are the increased sensor resolution, a viable pre-capture and a doubled buffer size. If you put the R6iii in cRAW, ES at HS (20fps) the buffer never runs out. pop it in HS+ (40fps) then the buffer is twice that of the R6ii and should be good for about 10 seconds depending on ISO noise. The new card slots with the CF Express b card, will greatly improve the buffer to card write down speeds.
The other area that isn't really talked about is the subtle AF advancements between the R6ii and R6iii. As well as the slightly re-worked menu and button assignments.
I was suprised how better the R6ii's low light / iso and AF ability are over the R5 and I'd be interested if there is a similar jump between the R6ii and R6iii.
 
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That's like saying a couple who are no longer having children are dead, even though they are still raising the children they already have. Even after one retires (from their career) they're not dead as long as they are still living.
Wow... running for the prize for the worse analogy ever?
I guess everyone understood what I meant but you?
 
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Other than the sensor, the EOS R was more the successor to the 6D Mark II than the RP was. Even Roger Cicala called the EOS R "a mirrorless 6D Mark II" after doing an EOS R teardown. (No one claimed the R6 was the successor to the 1D X Mark III just because it has the same sensor...)

The RP was the first budget Full Frame digital camera in Canon's history. Canon had NEVER released a FF DSLR at anywhere near that price before. There was no "previous" model in the series. Nor has there been a succeeding model in that price range and class. The R8 comes close, but it's more like a FF 80D compared to the RP being a FF 77D. (The 77D was not quite an x0D, not quite a Rebel, either.)
Agree to disagree - every time Canon released a lower price FF, that was the "budget FF" at that time. The original 5D was the first one, then the 5D went upmarket and the 6D became the one. Then we had the RP. Eventually the RP will go away and the R8 will remain, unless Canon will decide to do something different, as they do not seem to be big on long-term consistency with product lines
 
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The EOS 1D (APS-H) and 1Ds (FF) line became the 18 MP 1D X (following the 16.1 MP APS-H 1D mark IV) and 22.3 MP 5D Mark III (following the 21.1 MP 1Ds Mark III). The 50D split into the half-tier higher 7D and half-tier lower 60D. Canon has constantly merged and expanded tiers as market conditions change. This is nothing new if you've been watching Canon for 25 years.

Basing only on sensor will lead you to wrong conclusions. Was the R6 a 1-Series camera because it used the 1D X Mark III sensor? Where all of those Rebels that used the 18 MP sensor first introduced with the 7D actually 7-Series cameras? Were all of those Rebels that used the Dual Pixel AF 18 MP sensor first introduced in the 70D actually x0D series cameras? Some lower tier bodies have always gotten hand-me-down sensors from higher tier models in Canon's history.
Agreed...
But I am not basing my take on specific sensors, I am basing it on sensor size and relative price/position in the lineup. That's why I do not mix crop and FF, nor consider cameras with the same or similar sensor to be necessarily related, unless they occupy a similar rank in the lineup (I mean the lineup which was current when each camera was introduced)
 
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People used to talk about how Canon "abandoned" EF-S in the early 2010s because they didn't release any significant new EF-S lenses past the late 2000s. They said the same thing about the EOS M mount. Canon released a handful of lenses that were the lenses an EOS M buyer was likely to purchase.
But they did eventually abandon M and then EF(-S). In the same fashion there were a lot of people in denial about that fact even after Canon stopped releasing anything for those systems. Same with Sony users when Sony stopped making A cameras or 4/3 users when Olympus moved to micro4/3
But fan boys were falling off cliffs complaining there was not an equivalent EF-S or EF-M lens for every FF EF lens in the catalog. That's never how Canon has done it. If you want a full catalog of dedicated crop lenses go to Micro Four-Thirds or Fuji APS-C. Canon ain't ever going there.
Well that wasn't me. I did not said anything about wanting a full lens system for crop sensor. FF is the smaller sensor I use (not counting drones of course): I prefer medium format and I am not willing to go smaller than FF. Crop sensors can disappear for what I am concerned and I would not be fazed one bit.

But I am not at all against people who want crop cameras (there are plenty of legitimate reasons for that) and I am happy that they now have a more fleshed out lens system for RF-S with Sigma's additions
 
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