7D Mk2 ..... APS-H

[Gothmoth]

chuck westfall said canon is not dropping the APS-H format.

http://www.dougbrownphotography.com/2011/10/24/chuck-westfall-on-the-canon-eos-1d-x/

but that maybe only means they use it for video cams....

 

[Loswr]

chuck westfall said canon is not dropping the APS-H format.

http://www.dougbrownphotography.com/2011/10/24/chuck-westfall-on-the-canon-eos-1d-x/

but that maybe only means they use it for video cams....

That's in line with what unfocused stated. "The 1.3 crop sensor is not being killed off. Canon is keeping all options open for future products." That's 'corporate speak' for indefinite hold. At my company, we call it 'putting it in the hopper' but it amounts to the same thing. We did a lot of R&D on it, we don't want to send the message that it was wasted effort, so let's 'keep our options open'.

 

[Gothmoth]

That's in line with what unfocused stated. "The 1.3 crop sensor is not being killed off. Canon is keeping all options open for future products." That's 'corporate speak' for indefinite hold. At my company, we call it 'putting it in the hopper' but it amounts to the same thing. We did a lot of R&D on it, we don't want to send the message that it was wasted effort, so let's 'keep our options open'.

yep that´s possible.

i only wonder why they put so much effort in R&D of an 120 MP APS-H sensor?
why did they spend the R&D resources on APS-H and not FF or APS-C?

i mean... i wondered in late 2010 already why they used the APS-H format and not FF.

 

[moreorless]

That's in line with what unfocused stated. "The 1.3 crop sensor is not being killed off. Canon is keeping all options open for future products." That's 'corporate speak' for indefinite hold. At my company, we call it 'putting it in the hopper' but it amounts to the same thing. We did a lot of R&D on it, we don't want to send the message that it was wasted effort, so let's 'keep our options open'.

I'm guessing "on hold unless 1DX/7D mk2 sales disapoint and we see a real demand for it".

One other use for it to me seems to be for a mirrorless system, large enough to offer clear IQ/DOF advanatge over rival systems but not so far as to make the system overly bulky.

 

[mjbehnke]

I very much doubt they will change the sensor format of an existing camera. I think any current Aps-C body will continue to be an Aps-C body. If they ever make another Aps-H camera, it will be a new line. I tihnk one reason is that anybody with a current 7D that is using EF-S lenses would have to sell them all, as an Aps-H does not support that lens.

Just my III cents worth.

 

[Loswr]

i only wonder why they put so much effort in R&D of an 120 MP APS-H sensor?
why did they spend the R&D resources on APS-H and not FF or APS-C?

Perhaps because while there are other FF and APS-C sensors, Canon was the only one using APS-H - therefore, Canon's claim to having the only 120 MP APS-H sensor will likely stand unchallenged.

 

[CatfishSoupFTW]

an APS-H would be nice, but the price would for sure go up. i think they would also upgrade the sensor too instead of the older aps-H. and i mean. 1.6 vs 1.3 is sort of a big difference at the same time it isnt i feel.

aps- c 200mm x 1.6 = 320
aps-h 200 x 1.3 = 260

but i mean its prob worth more of a jump from aps-c to ff. actually wouldnt mind whichever. an FF 7D would be cool but then that will get expensive. maybe its too much for canon to balance all 3 sensors? who knows.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Kodak, not Canon made the first APS-H sensors in the early 90's. It certainly could have had to do with the production capability of the equipment. It was the standard until Canon came up with a FF sensor.

I liked the APS-H format, and would consider a new APS-H body. I don't expect to see one, but, if the 1DX falls flat, they might bring it to life again, or, a prosumer body with the larger sensor is also a possibility, Maybe a 7DH?

The one weakness of the APS-H for all around use is the lack of wide lenses. You really need 12mm to get ultra wide, but the 16-35mm is fine for most uses. The 14mm prime is priced out of my reach.

 

[traveller]

I think that the main reason they won't be putting an APS-H sensor in a non-1D line camera is that they don't want to risk 1DIV users trading down due to their loss of pixels on target in the 1D X. If they put a 24MP APS-H sensor in a 7D-esque body and charged a 5D MkII price for it, there might be some who'd be tempted.

My money for the 7D replacement would be on sort of 'mini-1DX', where you'd get most of its features except for the full frame sensor. Canon might figure that this would keep the birders happy as a second or third body next to their 1D X body(ies). I bet that both Canon and Nikon will be hoping to add perceived value to this tier of cameras to keep their selling price higher [note how quick the prices for the D300(s) and 7D fell once Nikon lost their 'monopoly' in this price bracket]. This would sit well with the improved specifications of the D7000 and allow Canon to up the specs (and the list price) of the 70D.

 

[unfocused]

i only wonder why they put so much effort in R&D of an 120 MP APS-H sensor?
why did they spend the R&D resources on APS-H and not FF or APS-C?

Perhaps because while there are other FF and APS-C sensors, Canon was the only one using APS-H - therefore, Canon's claim to having the only 120 MP APS-H sensor will likely stand unchallenged.

One explanation that always seemed logical to me was law enforcement and security cameras. High resolution combined with low-light sensitivity would greatly improve the success rate when the cameras snap a shot of your license plate as you roll through a stop light. APS-H might be the perfect tool for these cameras.

 

[AprilForever]

I think that the main reason they won't be putting an APS-H sensor in a non-1D line camera is that they don't want to risk 1DIV users trading down due to their loss of pixels on target in the 1D X. If they put a 24MP APS-H sensor in a 7D-esque body and charged a 5D MkII price for it, there might be some who'd be tempted.

Why does everyone need to keep making up excuses?

The APS-H sensor is a misfit and only came about because of technical restrictions with respect to sensor yield in fabrication. With the technical restrictions now history and the sensor yield problem solved, there is no longer any reason for APS-H sensors to exist.

Consider that it is the underlying sensor technology that is important, not the sensor size. Thus if they can manufacture an APS-H sensor at 16MP then they can build a FF sensor at 27MP with close to the same characteristics. (A 27MP full frame sensor will deliver a 1.3 crop that is 16MP.)

Exactly. You da man, Dilbert!

 

[briansquibb]

The APS-H sensor is a misfit

I am glad to have a misfit in my camera. You will find that the owners of misfits will be mighty releuctant to move away to non misfits. The crop maybe only 1.3 but we manage as we also manage with AF at f/8 - and we get a real pro AF system unlike the wonderful APS-C owners.

Maybe a 27mps ff is the way ahead - but that is not coming in the 1 series until at least the 1DXII

I am sure we will manage until nirvana arrives 8) 8) 8)

 

[juwi]

The APS-H sensor is a misfit and only came about because of technical restrictions with respect to sensor yield in fabrication. With the technical restrictions now history and the sensor yield problem solved, there is no longer any reason for APS-H sensors to exist.

Also developing chips is expensive. Refitting a chip design to fit another die size is expensive and probably most important: Running production for a chip is expensive. For different sensor sizes, different equipment is required, which takes away more precious space in fabs limiting overall capacity and driving up costs. This is probalby the number one reason for the 1Dx being full frame only. While in the Premium they saw these costs justifyable through other means, like lens sales and the prestige, it really isn't for the 7D line.

 

[iP337]

Heh, I posted this same question in another thread at the same time.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,2975.msg63304.html#msg63304

I thought it would be interesting if Canon made a 16:9 APS-H sensor, since back in the film days APS-H (known as APS-High Definition) was 16:9 for landscape photography instead of 3:2. If they did make this, then the HDMI out with a 16:9 sensor wouldn’t have those pillar bars or crop marks that the current 7D’s HDMI out has due to it’s 3:2 sensor, this could be the “clean” HDMI out camera we’ve been waiting for! Nikon’s already doing a clean HDMI out with the D4, Canon has to do something and the current 7D almost already has it. (Though I was just reading that the D4 might have video issues at the sensor level even before compression; http://www.eoshd.com/content/6961/why-does-nikon-think-this-is-acceptable-video-quality-on-a-6000-flagship-dslr )

I always liked 16:9 photos, I had a Lumix LX1 and LX2 with a 16:9 sensor that not only cut into video easily but also displayed as nice wallpapers on computers or slideshows on TVs. Of course I could always crop a 1.78 in post but my point is I don't mind 16:9 native photos, and they might help simulate that wide feeling someone complained the current 1.3 crop factor was lacking. Come on Canon... GH2 did it! lol

I know it won't happend but I'm a dreamer, lol

 

[wickidwombat]

I think that the main reason they won't be putting an APS-H sensor in a non-1D line camera is that they don't want to risk 1DIV users trading down due to their loss of pixels on target in the 1D X. If they put a 24MP APS-H sensor in a 7D-esque body and charged a 5D MkII price for it, there might be some who'd be tempted.

Sorry but this makes NO sense, canon have already sold the 1d4s and made their money they dont give a damn what happens to used prices. in fact they would love for all the 1d4 users to trade down. more sales for them!

 

[iP337]

The APS-H sensor is a misfit and only came about because of technical restrictions with respect to sensor yield in fabrication. With the technical restrictions now history and the sensor yield problem solved, there is no longer any reason for APS-H sensors to exist.

Also developing chips is expensive. Refitting a chip design to fit another die size is expensive and probably most important: Running production for a chip is expensive. For different sensor sizes, different equipment is required, which takes away more precious space in fabs limiting overall capacity and driving up costs. This is probalby the number one reason for the 1Dx being full frame only. While in the Premium they saw these costs justifyable through other means, like lens sales and the prestige, it really isn't for the 7D line.

Though I doubt Canon would, I assume they could easily crop a 30.2×16.7mm APS-H area from the 18Mp 36x24mm sensor giving it a lower effective Mp count with a 1.3ish crop. Come on Canon ...D4 and GH2 does it! lol

Tech manufacturing companies do stuff like this all the time; underclocking CPUs, cutting bit rates or disabling features to create a new but lesser product from the same production line to meet consumer demand. However I just don't think there's much demand for APS-H.

But if they do then Magic Lantern can re-enable the deactivated pixels and we can ruin Canon financially! MUAHAHAHA! Well maybe the 1Dx department at least, which would probably take the D4 and A900 with it. OMG it's the DSLR bubble burst! ...You know it's coming.

 

[smirkypants]

Why does everyone need to keep making up excuses?
The APS-H sensor is a misfit...

People keep making excuses because they want to have 1D4 IQ with a 7D body/price.

But what is missed is that technology marches forward and that you can probably now put 2+ year old H-sensor quality in a today C-sensor. Canon continues to invest in developing crop body lenses and there is a clear differentiation between the APS-C and FF.

Looking forward, there will probably be sensors that allow switching between FF and crop, but we aren't quite there yet. My guess is that it won't be that long, though.

I stand by my previous claim. If a new H sensor camera comes out, I will file down my 1D4 and eat the filings.

 

[gmrza]

And for that I think we have to blame/thank Nikon for putting sophisticated AF, etc, in lower end models.

And if Nikon ends up forcing Canon's hand in the competition game, then "Thank you Nikon!" - In that case, we all win.

 

[traveller]

I think that the main reason they won't be putting an APS-H sensor in a non-1D line camera is that they don't want to risk 1DIV users trading down due to their loss of pixels on target in the 1D X. If they put a 24MP APS-H sensor in a 7D-esque body and charged a 5D MkII price for it, there might be some who'd be tempted.

Sorry but this makes NO sense, canon have already sold the 1d4s and made their money they dont give a damn what happens to used prices. in fact they would love for all the 1d4 users to trade down. more sales for them!

Sorry, I obviously wasn't clear enough as you seem to have missed my point: Canon want 1D MkIV owners to buy a 1D X and not be tempted to trade down to the 7D line. In this happened, they would lose rather a lot of money...

 

[TinaLovesCanon]

"Simply put, the 120MP APS-H sensor was chest beating." Those bastards! They should stop all R&D and just make the same cameras forever.