7D vs. 70D: Which has better image quality?

Steb said:
AlanF said:
As I posted earlier, the big difference is in AF. The 7D's AF is far more erratic and has real difficulties on such combinations as the 300mm f/2.8 II with 2xTC. This has been corrected with the 70D, which is why I sold my 7D and bought the 70D. The other differences between the two are minor. N

Ahh, I don't like to hear that! ;)
I expected the 7D AF to be better than the 70D AF. At least the 70D lacks the spot AF mode afaik.

Is there a specific issue with the 7D and 300mm f/2.8 II? I own a 300 f/2.8 myself (the old one, not the mkII) and I am planning to invest in some converters. Do I have to prepare for problems with such a setup and the 7D? ???

My experience with the 300/2.8 II + 2xTCIII having poor AF speed and hunting on the 7D has been duplicated by others. Many of us have found poor inconsistency of AF in general. Lensrental has somewhere on its blog showing the AF consistency of the 7D being far worse than the 5DIII.

The series II telephotos have a different feedback loop system from the series I and required the series III TCs to be developed. I have no idea how the series I telephotos AF perform with the 7D plus TCs. By all accounts, the 300/2.8 I takes an IQ hit with the 2xTC.
 
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ajfotofilmagem said:
unfocused said:
I wish I could really believe some of the comments here, but I have a strong suspicion that a significant amount of confirmation bias is going on.
Almost all reviews when the 70D came out indicated that there were only marginal improvements in the sensor. From reading the comments here, one could get the impression that the 70D is some super camera. I'd like a more balanced, objective perspective. (Probably a hopeless request on this forum I know.)
This phenomenon has occurred many times in CR. Let's remember the time of release of 5D mark iii:

"Only 1 megapixel more than the previous model..."
"Just a little less noise than the previous model..."
"Only one Compact Flash slot..."
"This should be called 5D mark 2.1 ..."
"D800 will kill this rehashed 5D..."

Today we see the use in the real world showed the efficiency and versatility of 5D mark iii. Now we can see some qualities of 70D that were not apparent in the spec list. But hopefully 7D mark ii has better picture quality than 70D, to assume the position of "mini 1DX".

Yes, if the MkIII is amazing then the MkII is still really great.
 
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AlanF said:
My experience with the 300/2.8 II + 2xTCIII having poor AF speed and hunting on the 7D has been duplicated by others. Many of us have found poor inconsistency of AF in general. Lensrental has somewhere on its blog showing the AF consistency of the 7D being far worse than the 5DIII.

The series II telephotos have a different feedback loop system from the series I and required the series III TCs to be developed. I have no idea how the series I telephotos AF perform with the 7D plus TCs. By all accounts, the 300/2.8 I takes an IQ hit with the 2xTC.

Ok, I expected some IQ degradation with a 2x TC anyway. I think I will go with the 1.4x for a start. I hope this will still give some great quality pics.
 
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Plainsman said:
Dare one ask the question 7D vs 70D vs D7100: which has better image quality?

Worth considering because the D7100 is cheaper than the 70D.

That's a dangerous question to pose on this forum without starting a flame war, but I'll do my best!

If people were honest, they'd admit that the D7100 has the image quality advantage; it is superior on most metrics. The point of argument would be how much better it is and how important the image quality advantage is compared to other features. I would say that the D7100 is the better all round stills camera, with its weakness being buffer depth, plus a bit of build quality compared to the 7D. That being said, one doesn't buy a camera body in isolation, but as part of a system. I wouldn't say that anything that Nikon has to offer is compelling enough to offset the changeover costs, if one has a decent collection of EF mount glass. If one doesn't own any glass from either manufacturer, then deciding which lenses one is likely to need is a factor. To be honest, unless you're into wildlife or sports, I'm not sure that either manufacturer has the most compelling lens line-up for their APS-C cameras and I might be tempted to look elsewhere (e.g. m4/3rds or Fuji).
 
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traveller said:
Plainsman said:
Dare one ask the question 7D vs 70D vs D7100: which has better image quality?

Worth considering because the D7100 is cheaper than the 70D.

That's a dangerous question to pose on this forum without starting a flame war, but I'll do my best!

If people were honest, they'd admit that the D7100 has the image quality advantage; it is superior on most metrics. The point of argument would be how much better it is and how important the image quality advantage is compared to other features. I would say that the D7100 is the better all round stills camera, with its weakness being buffer depth, plus a bit of build quality compared to the 7D. That being said, one doesn't buy a camera body in isolation, but as part of a system. I wouldn't say that anything that Nikon has to offer is compelling enough to offset the changeover costs, if one has a decent collection of EF mount glass. If one doesn't own any glass from either manufacturer, then deciding which lenses one is likely to need is a factor. To be honest, unless you're into wildlife or sports, I'm not sure that either manufacturer has the most compelling lens line-up for their APS-C cameras and I might be tempted to look elsewhere (e.g. m4/3rds or Fuji).

Im not sure how this thread ven got to three pages.

7d's problems are detailed and noted across the internets. It is simply not a good buy. The Af has problems & the iso is bay far the worst of any canon camera i have seen sicne the 450d. I HAD to dispose of my 7d. i loved the body.

Trust me, im going through the same with a SECOND 6d, and its the most frustrating thing in the world. I have yet another canon body that i cant use to to Af issues. softie images and af misses at f4...enough of this mess already.

I just joined CPS gold so hopefully they can help. If not, im scraping for a 5dmk3.
 
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ashmadux said:
traveller said:
Plainsman said:
Dare one ask the question 7D vs 70D vs D7100: which has better image quality?

Worth considering because the D7100 is cheaper than the 70D.

That's a dangerous question to pose on this forum without starting a flame war, but I'll do my best!

If people were honest, they'd admit that the D7100 has the image quality advantage; it is superior on most metrics. The point of argument would be how much better it is and how important the image quality advantage is compared to other features. I would say that the D7100 is the better all round stills camera, with its weakness being buffer depth, plus a bit of build quality compared to the 7D. That being said, one doesn't buy a camera body in isolation, but as part of a system. I wouldn't say that anything that Nikon has to offer is compelling enough to offset the changeover costs, if one has a decent collection of EF mount glass. If one doesn't own any glass from either manufacturer, then deciding which lenses one is likely to need is a factor. To be honest, unless you're into wildlife or sports, I'm not sure that either manufacturer has the most compelling lens line-up for their APS-C cameras and I might be tempted to look elsewhere (e.g. m4/3rds or Fuji).

Im not sure how this thread ven got to three pages.

7d's problems are detailed and noted across the internets. It is simply not a good buy. The Af has problems & the iso is bay far the worst of any canon camera i have seen sicne the 450d. I HAD to dispose of my 7d. i loved the body.

Well documented by whom? I've not come across huge amounts of material substantiating this claim. There was a bit of a hoo-ha when it first came out, partly because of the "crazy megapixel number" (note how when Nikon went to 24 megapixels, no one batted an eyelid) and partly caused by a review from Darwin Wiggett that found the 7D to produce a very soft output. To be honest, I respect Darwin and regularly read his blog, but his was the only comparison I've seen where the 7D's file looks that soft compared to other cameras; I haven't seen anyone else find this result.

ashmadux said:
Trust me, im going through the same with a SECOND 6d, and its the most frustrating thing in the world. I have yet another canon body that i cant use to to Af issues. softie images and af misses at f4...enough of this mess already.

I just joined CPS gold so hopefully they can help. If not, im scraping for a 5dmk3.

Plenty of people find the AF system of 6D fine, if used within its capabilities. The 5D Mk3 is very good, but I'm not sure really how necessary such a sophisticated AF system is for non-sports/wildlife specialists (myself included). I'm wondering whether I'd have been as well served by a 6D and saved the extra money; heck, even a 70D might have sufficed most of the time as all the 5D Mk3 seems to have done is made me more fussy about noise!
 
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Aglet said:
100 said:
You’ve tested sevral 70Ds?
In a lab or in the field?
Can you show some of your test results? I like to see the “real world” difference between the 7d and 70d and if there is any copy variation between the 70ds.

This will have to suffice

www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=16713.0

otherwise it's $280/hr + incidentals for custom work.

You react here claiming you have tested 70Ds (plural!) and draw conclusions based on your testing regarding the difference in noise between the 70D and the 7D.
That might be useful information. When I ask about your test results you come up with a set of lens cap shots pushed 4 stops of a single 70D that most likely never left the shop you tried it at and no 7d results to compare them with.
That’s a bit meager, don’t you think?

Combined with your “no noise sensor” remark, which gives me the impression you lack any real knowledge about noise metrics and testing methods, I can only conclude (subjective as it may be, though it could very well be intersubjective looking at other reactions) that your conclusions are derived from the one thing Canon falls short at and that is low ISO dynamic range.

It’s a bit like some parents do when their kid scores nine A’s and one C. They don’t look at the A’s, they only care about the one C. Their kid suddenly becomes a loser. The kids of their friends score a lot of B’s and some A’s so on average they are not outscoring their kid but in the somewhat twisted minds of those parents the kid with the single C is still the loser, no matter how good the rest of the performance is.

It seems you only like to focus on the low iso part as far as image quality is concerned. I can even understand for some highly specialized photographers having more than 12 stops DR at low iso is important. If so, don’t waste your time on the current offerings from Canon. Buy a D800 or an A7R if you are on a budget or a good medium format camera if low ISO performance is crucial.

Then I visited the website you link to in your profile where I find images like your “POLITICAL LANDSCAPE SERIES
and I thought, just give your pushed lens cap series a fancy name like “Dark Side Perspective Series” and sell them as art.

And guess what, you don’t even have to pay me for this great idea.
 
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100 said:
You react here claiming you have tested 70Ds (plural!) and draw conclusions based on your testing regarding the difference in noise between the 70D and the 7D.
That might be useful information. When I ask about your test results you come up with a set of lens cap shots pushed 4 stops of a single 70D that most likely never left the shop you tried it at and no 7d results to compare them with.
That’s a bit meager, don’t you think?

for the price? ;)
if you visited my website, you will also find a page dedicated to comparing read noise from a large number of cameras, including the 7D
I've got about 10 other bodies, 70D included, which are still waiting for me to get the time to prepare and add to that page, including some older models.

I have enough data on the 7D and 70D to satisfy my curiosity and I believe I've adequately summarized what I've found, if subjectively, in that CR post.

From all those who claimed to have a 7D (or 5D2) that does not have a pattern noise problem, none have offered or supplied a requested raw file for me to compare.

And the only way those bodies leave the shop is if I pay for them. That kind of research doesn't come cheap.
If someone wants to sponsor more testing, I'll consider it. I do enough on my own dime & time.

The web site so many love to hate, DxOmark, provides plenty of basic data for everyone to review and interpret.

www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Canon/EOS-70D---Measurements
www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Canon/EOS-7D---Measurements

Have a look at the FULL SNR tab and compare for yourself.
There really isn't much of an obvious difference between the two bodies, especially in the low ISO shadow region.
But DxOmark does not publish anything on the nature of the measured noise; whether it's random, or patterned.
Visualizing the noise the way I present it provides an opportunity to decide whether the camera's pattern noise characteristic might be an issue for some users.
Compare it to audio; what's easier to tolerate in a quiet music passage, a faint white noise or a discrete 60 Hz hum?

your conclusions are derived from the one thing Canon falls short at and that is low ISO dynamic range...no matter how good the rest of the performance is.

I'll give Canon an approving pat on the head for everything else they've accomplished. Truly, I enjoy using their gear and still retain some.
But I really hope they can pull up their socks a little more on the low ISO
PATTERN NOISE PROBLEM.
DR is NOT what I've been complaining about, PATTERN NOISE is what I've consistently had problems with from Canon's sensors and specifically, DIGIC 4 systems.

Fixed pattern noise is a direct factor in DR measurements, but they are different problems to deal with when producing a final image.

It seems you only like to focus on the low iso part as far as image quality is concerned. I can even understand for some highly specialized photographers having more than 12 stops DR at low iso is important. If so, don’t waste your time on the current offerings from Canon. Buy a D800 or an A7R if you are on a budget or a good medium format camera if low ISO performance is crucial.

I did exactly that - because every Nikon, Pentax and now Fuji and Olympus body I've added to my inventory lacks the one thing I get only from a digic-4 Canon.
FIXED PATTERN NOISE at low ISO .. that fouls up shadow (and sometimes even midtone) areas and limits manipulation of those areas in post without requiring inordinate amounts of time and compromises to correct.
I should not have to waste time in post to fix problems that are innate to the camera; I prefer tools that don't require me to work harder to achieve something so I choose those that don't have deficiencies where it matters to me.
The newer digic 5 products have improved on the FPN issue, just not yet enough to convince me they will outperform my current tools, as either a sensor or a system.
The 70D's sensor performance is no longer much of a limitation compared to the competition, unlike previous digic-4-based canon bodies. And I say that based on the improved FPN performance, not overall DR.
The low ISO DR is still lower than competitors but, with the shadow noise now more random, it's not as much of a post-processing problem as it was when the shadows looked like a picket fence of stripes if pushed, a'la 7D.

Then I visited the website .. you don’t even have to pay me for this great idea.

I'm fairly sure "Canon Plaid" or "Canon Stripe" will not catch on as wall art... But I've been wrong about mass market appeal before.
Do you think Nikon, Sony, Pentax, Fuji, film or Oly fans would buy large prints of that? After all, they can't produce that kind of art with their cameras.
Hmmm... Maybe you're on to something after all.
 
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Aglet said:
From all those who claimed to have a 7D (or 5D2) that does not have a pattern noise problem, none have offered or supplied a requested raw file for me to compare.

And the only way those bodies leave the shop is if I pay for them. That kind of research doesn't come cheap.
If someone wants to sponsor more testing, I'll consider it. I do enough on my own dime & time.

The web site so many love to hate, DxOmark, provides plenty of basic data for everyone to review and interpret.
www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Canon/EOS-70D---Measurements
www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Canon/EOS-7D---Measurements

Have a look at the FULL SNR tab and compare for yourself.
There really isn't much of an obvious difference between the two bodies, especially in the low ISO shadow region.
But DxOmark does not publish anything on the nature of the measured noise; whether it's random, or patterned.
Visualizing the noise the way I present it provides an opportunity to decide whether the camera's pattern noise characteristic might be an issue for some users.
Compare it to audio; what's easier to tolerate in a quiet music passage, a faint white noise or a discrete 60 Hz hum?

your conclusions are derived from the one thing Canon falls short at and that is low ISO dynamic range...no matter how good the rest of the performance is.

I'll give Canon an approving pat on the head for everything else they've accomplished. Truly, I enjoy using their gear and still retain some.
But I really hope they can pull up their socks a little more on the low ISO
PATTERN NOISE PROBLEM.
DR is NOT what I've been complaining about, PATTERN NOISE is what I've consistently had problems with from Canon's sensors and specifically, DIGIC 4 systems.

Fixed pattern noise is a direct factor in DR measurements, but they are different problems to deal with when producing a final image.

Let me be clear, I don’t claim the digic 4 bodies are free of pattern noise, nor do I have any problem with DxO measurements. How DxO translate measurements into scores is another subject though.

The fact that noise exist does not automatically translate into noise being a problem. It can become a problem (at pixel level mostly) if you have to push shadows more than 2 stops. ETTR can help unless the dynamic range of the scene exceeds 11 stops. A sensor performing 2 stops better will give more latitude until the dynamic range of the scene exceeds 13 stops (I’m talking about screen DR in DxO terms).
It all depends on the type of photography you do. If you are photographing scenes with a dynamic range between 11 and 13 stops all the time and blow highlights are a problem, Canon is not the way to go at the moment. If the dynamic range of the scene stays below 11 stops (as it does in most cases) it’s hard to see any noise difference in the end result unless you underexpose and try to recover in post. There is no real reason to underexpose low dynamic range scenes though.

Pushed lens cap shots will show you the amount and “shape” of the noise and can give an indication of when noise may become a problem in real world photography. You have to look for specific circumstances in real world photography to show a significant noise difference in the final picture between a Canon sensor and other brands however.

So all in all (pattern) noise of Canon sensors can be a problem under specific and rather exceptional circumstances. Scenes with a dynamic range between 11 and 13 stops where bracketing (hdr) isn’t an option, you don’t want blown highlights and still need to push the shadows more than 2 stops.
 
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traveller said:
ashmadux said:
traveller said:
Plainsman said:
Dare one ask the question 7D vs 70D vs D7100: which has better image quality?

Worth considering because the D7100 is cheaper than the 70D.

That's a dangerous question to pose on this forum without starting a flame war, but I'll do my best!

If people were honest, they'd admit that the D7100 has the image quality advantage; it is superior on most metrics. The point of argument would be how much better it is and how important the image quality advantage is compared to other features. I would say that the D7100 is the better all round stills camera, with its weakness being buffer depth, plus a bit of build quality compared to the 7D. That being said, one doesn't buy a camera body in isolation, but as part of a system. I wouldn't say that anything that Nikon has to offer is compelling enough to offset the changeover costs, if one has a decent collection of EF mount glass. If one doesn't own any glass from either manufacturer, then deciding which lenses one is likely to need is a factor. To be honest, unless you're into wildlife or sports, I'm not sure that either manufacturer has the most compelling lens line-up for their APS-C cameras and I might be tempted to look elsewhere (e.g. m4/3rds or Fuji).

Im not sure how this thread ven got to three pages.

7d's problems are detailed and noted across the internets. It is simply not a good buy. The Af has problems & the iso is bay far the worst of any canon camera i have seen sicne the 450d. I HAD to dispose of my 7d. i loved the body.

Well documented by whom? I've not come across huge amounts of material substantiating this claim. There was a bit of a hoo-ha when it first came out, partly because of the "crazy megapixel number" (note how when Nikon went to 24 megapixels, no one batted an eyelid) and partly caused by a review from Darwin Wiggett that found the 7D to produce a very soft output. To be honest, I respect Darwin and regularly read his blog, but his was the only comparison I've seen where the 7D's file looks that soft compared to other cameras; I haven't seen anyone else find this result.

ashmadux said:
Trust me, im going through the same with a SECOND 6d, and its the most frustrating thing in the world. I have yet another canon body that i cant use to to Af issues. softie images and af misses at f4...enough of this mess already.

I just joined CPS gold so hopefully they can help. If not, im scraping for a 5dmk3.

Plenty of people find the AF system of 6D fine, if used within its capabilities. The 5D Mk3 is very good, but I'm not sure really how necessary such a sophisticated AF system is for non-sports/wildlife specialists (myself included). I'm wondering whether I'd have been as well served by a 6D and saved the extra money; heck, even a 70D might have sufficed most of the time as all the 5D Mk3 seems to have done is made me more fussy about noise!


If you cant find all of the discussion on 7d complaints then you are not simply looking hard enough. I admit i didnt see 'enough' of it before i bought the body. It was only after a year when the af module went wacky- all of a sudden i could find it all. When the Af worked,I was able to take some great photos.

For the 6d- sounds like your being "nice" in your description of the cameras AF. no one was happy when the af unit was announced. Ive noticed the more positive trend as more people acquire the camera (especially after the great black friday sales) but it sounds more like just being happy to have anything decent at all for this price. My Af problems have extended to things that dont move- like charts, household items, statues, etc. And its just not great.

I will tell you this- My t2i has outperformed the AF of the 7d i had +2 more recent 6d bodies. Thats sad/insane. And I use the camera with a 70-200 2.8 II to shoot moving people, urban landscape, studio portrait, etc. Its not even a comparison.
Im now testing the 6d in the field before i send it to CPS tomorrow.

Im around other photographers with serious equipment at Fashion week- and they ask me what camera i have.

t2i. Kicking AF ass and taking names.
 
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So I bought a 7D second-hand from my brother and…I think the image quality is great. Sorry. :)

Is it better than the 70D? I haven't used the 70D myself, so I cannot comment on it, but even if it is, does it honestly matter? And I also don't think the ISO is THAT noisy. Some of you make it seem as if it's the worst you've seen in a camera. I upgraded from the Rebel XSi to this, and ISO, and image quality for starters are better on my 7D.
 
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Snaps said:
So I bought a 7D second-hand from my brother and…I think the image quality is great. Sorry. :)

Is it better than the 70D? I haven't used the 70D myself, so I cannot comment on it, but even if it is, does it honestly matter? And I also don't think the ISO is THAT noisy. Some of you make it seem as if it's the worst you've seen in a camera. I upgraded from the Rebel XSi to this, and ISO, and image quality for starters are better on my 7D.

And you have hit the nail on the head.... You can take any current DSLR...Nikon, Sony, Canon, whatever.... And take wonderful pictures... The differences are minimal to the average user.
 
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Grrr Not sure why the site thought I "forgot my password" when I quite emphatically DIDN'T forget it, but now that I've gotten my rant that is tangent to the topic out of the way.... >:(

I've owned a 7D for about a year and a half now. I find the 70D vs 7D to be an interesting comparison. When it was announced that the 70D would have "the same" 19 point AF system as the 7D, I wondered that was really the case or if its Servo accuracy would be improved. The LensRentals results showing that the new AF systems in the 1DX and 5D Mark III had massive improvements in Servo tracking, even against such heavy hitters as the 1D Mark IV, so I thought it might be likely that the 70D's system would be more accurate. Based on various reviews, and posts CR, I'm satisfied that it has been substantially improved, despite being labelled "the same." I'm definitely +1 in the camp that AF is crucial to IQ. A clean out of focus image, is still and OOF image!

In addition, I've seen some of the IQ issues with the 7D that have been reported. My 7D blows my T3i out of the water for most things. It's AF may not be equal to the 70D's and not nearly as good as the 5D Mark III or the especially AF speed and accuracy on moving subjects, but it is still a great system that beats the Rebel hands down, as one would expect. But I've seen some of the sky noise at 100 ISO in airshow pics--the T3i (used as a second body), does seem to create cleaner images that require less editing. Still, I find my 7D images clean up nicely in post (I'm just using DPP).

Based on the reviews I've read, it seems that the 70D has made some progress on both the IQ and AF fronts, making it a compelling camera. Two AF features it's missing though are AF Expansion and AF Spot mode. I have read many reviews that make light of these two modes, but I've found them very useful. AF Expansion is very useful for tracking a fast moving BIF. And I find Spot mode far more useful than I'd originally thought, when trying to get a lock on a bird through dense foliage. I've gotten some shots with Spot mode that would probably have been impossible without it. The year prior to buying my 7D, I was trying to get images of Bald Eagles nesting in Port Colborne (a town near me in the Niagara Peninsula of Ontario, Canada) with my T3i, and I was constantly frustrated by the AF system focussing on a branch in front of the subject. The Spot AF system would have been a huge benefit! I've since used the Spot AF in tricky situations with birds and other animals, which naturally try to seek cover when confronted with a curious human armed with a large tube they keep trying to aim at them, for unknown purposes! ::)

I'm a little surprised that Spot and Expansion modes are disabled in the 70D. Likely just a firmware feature, perhaps left off to give a bit of 'separation' between the xxD series 70D and the xD series 7D, which nominally sits above it. Perhaps, once the 7D is discontinued, the 70D will gain these features in a FW update!


As compelling as the 70D is, it doesn't really bring enough to the table for me to change to it, especially since I only purchased my 7D in 2012. It's the 7D Mark II that interests me, as I want a quantum leap in AF capability, and also hope for substantial burst and buffer improvements (as well as some IQ improvements, but I'm expecting those to be more modest than the AF and burst changes). If I was buying new however, I think it would be a tougher proposition. IQ and AF accuracy favour the 70D, which is to be expected. For the Videographer of course, it's a no-brainer--the 70D beats the 7D hands down for video. The tilt-shift screen may erode weather sealing, but it can also be very useful in some shooting scenarios, where one wants or needs to shoot at odd angles, and the DPAF on the 70D can be very useful for that, although I find shooting in Quick AF mode during live view largely makes AF speed in live view a non-issue. On the other hand, the 7D does have the (slightly) faster burst mode and, more importantly, a deeper buffer. It also has the two additional AF modes which, although often overlooked, can be extremely useful for the "action" shooter. I'd be in a tough, tough place if I was buying new for the first time!!!! The 70D I think wins overall, incorporating new technology, but I'd really miss the deeper buffer and extra AF modes!

Regarding the D7100 vs 70D, vs 7D comparison, I think it largely depends on what you're shooting and in what conditions. Many have stated that the D7100 is probably the better "stills" camera, but I believe that is a statement that needs clarification and qualification. I think if I was shooting under low light, the D7100 sensor does have some advantages, which has been covered extensively. I very much agree with the earlier post however, that people often overstate the DR issue, ignoring the Canon system's other strengths. It certainly does seem to be a case of people fixating on the "C" and ignoring the A's"! Given that it is designed, like the 70D, for action shooting, I'd say the D7100's biggest downfall is the shallow buffer, even for JPEG shooting. This seems to be the biggest Achilles heel for an otherwise outstanding camera. Another interesting comparison between the 70D and the D7100 also revolves around AF systems. Many reviewers seem to fixate on the fact that the D7100 has 51 AF points vs only 19 on the 70D, and thus automatically give the D7100 the nod. However, it’s less simple that that—only 15 of the D7100s AF points are cross-type, whilst all 19 of the 70D’s are cross-type. Moreover, what really matters is how well they work in real life.

There is an interesting review at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOM4r1gxsbs. There doesn’t seem to be much to choose from in terms of AF accuracy for side-moving subjects, but the tests definitely give the edge to the 70D when it comes to advancing or receding subjects. I think it’s interesting how Canon and Nikon appear to fluctuate when it comes to various parameters of camera design, but it does seem , from a number of comparisons I’ve read or viewed, that Canon has gained a slight edge in AF speed and accuracy over the last few years, beginning with the 1DX. The review also covers the difference in buffers. Unfortunately, the reviewer only covers JPEG and RAW+JPEG buffers. I’d have liked to have seen a RAW only comparison as well, as the 70D is reputed to be good for 15 or 16 RAW shots before the buffer fills, which is certainly not bad!

In the end, I would say I’m happy with my 7D overall. Yes, I’d love to get something that has an even better AF system and better IQ. The 70D appears to deliver, but not sufficiently for me to consider it. The much anticipated 7D Mark II is the beast for which I am yearning! It’s possible that a 70D might end up in my bag, way down the road when the price is lower—it might make a better second body to go with the 7D Mark II than my 7D will, and give me a much better “tilt screen” camera than my T3i ( I will always want to have at least one SLR with a tilt screen!). If I was going to advise someone on deciding between the 7D vs 70D, I’d probably recommend the 70D given that it has better sharpness, noise –control and newer technology, such as DPAF. Unless of course they needed maximum durability and a much deeper buffer, in which case I’d say the 7D is still very difficult to beat. The 7D may be an “old” horse it the unforgiving technology race---but it’s STILL a damn FINE horse!!!! :D
 
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100 said:
So all in all (pattern) noise of Canon sensors can be a problem under specific and rather exceptional circumstances. Scenes with a dynamic range between 11 and 13 stops where bracketing (hdr) isn’t an option, you don’t want blown highlights and still need to push the shadows more than 2 stops.
I don't think we're really arguing from opposite directions here. :)
I have plenty of good images taken with the lower DR Canons and find I can even push shadows from my 60D a reasonable amount before banding is a problem. My 40D files can be pushed even futher if needed.
My kind of landscape shooting often requires some DR compression to make into a suitable print, especially if the print is to be displayed in low lighting conditions. FWIW, my 60D has provided me with the greatest number of excellent sunlit landscape files so far.

Banding on my 7D it was much worse and my 5d2 sometimes showed banding in smooth midtones or even slightly raised lower midtones. I just wrote the latter two off as inadequate for my needs and got rid of them. I was really disappointed with the low ISO performance of both of those cameras, to put it mildly. They were fine for high ISO.
To replace the 5d2, the d800 was the better choice for my kind of shooting at the time and I will retain them until I find some shortcoming ... none as yet unless I count the oil blobs that ended up on my sensors after a 1000+ shots.
I'm still waiting for a 7D replacement option, primarily for advanced AF and speed but also has to have good low ISO performance, if possible. The 70D almost fits that gap but I actually want a step up in AF performance from the original, and very good, 7D.
 
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Don Haines said:
And you have hit the nail on the head.... You can take any current DSLR...Nikon, Sony, Canon, whatever.... And take wonderful pictures... The differences are minimal to the average user.


This gets brought up in these discussions regularly, but it's not really saying anything at all, is it?

Every camera technological debate thread can end with "all cameras take nice pictures".

But a site such as this operates within a tech-context, and tech thrives on incremental improvement. So saying "the difference is minimal" over an over in every thread along with other platitudes dilutes the discussion.
 
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MichaelHodges said:
Don Haines said:
And you have hit the nail on the head.... You can take any current DSLR...Nikon, Sony, Canon, whatever.... And take wonderful pictures... The differences are minimal to the average user.


This gets brought up in these discussions regularly, but it's not really saying anything at all, is it?

Every camera technological debate thread can end with "all cameras take nice pictures".

But a site such as this operates within a tech-context, and tech thrives on incremental improvement. So saying "the difference is minimal" over an over in every thread along with other platitudes dilutes the discussion.
Yes, but every now and then we should remind ourselves that we are dealing with incremental improvements, not life-and-death or earthshattering revelations.....
 
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I don't know about you guys, but I heartily welcome improvements in DSLR tech that pushes further away from what smart phones are capable of, regardless of brand loyalty (perceived or not).

I cheered when I first saw the results from the Sony sensors (rather than trying to minimalize it), because in the end, it's good for all of us.
 
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MichaelHodges said:
Don Haines said:
And you have hit the nail on the head.... You can take any current DSLR...Nikon, Sony, Canon, whatever.... And take wonderful pictures... The differences are minimal to the average user.


This gets brought up in these discussions regularly, but it's not really saying anything at all, is it?

Every camera technological debate thread can end with "all cameras take nice pictures".

But a site such as this operates within a tech-context, and tech thrives on incremental improvement. So saying "the difference is minimal" over an over in every thread along with other platitudes dilutes the discussion.

The particular tech matters though, particularly when advising on buying options to comparatively uninformed people - HiFi is dead to most people as an important thing to argue over, while CPU or videocards can be shown to have quite large differences for instance.

For most people, digital camera advances are getting smaller and smaller over time, particularly with more automated editting and the main display format being screens rather than print. Making it clear that the practical difference means you cant lose can be rather helpful for people anxious about whether they have to worry too much.
 
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AlanF said:
Steb said:
For me it was the other way around. I decided end of last year to buy a 7D after comparing it with a 70D. I already own a 5D3 and from an ergonomic point of view the 7D body is a perfect match, the 70D clearly has a reduced feature set here. And since I only use the raw files I don't care about the better processing with newer DIGIC. Raw noise performance is no different between the two models. IMHO the only real advantages for the 70D are the new video features and the sooc picture quality. If you don't need any of those you get better build quality and better ergonomics with the 7D.

As I posted earlier, the big difference is in AF. The 7D's AF is far more erratic and has real difficulties on such combinations as the 300mm f/2.8 II with 2xTC. This has been corrected with the 70D, which is why I sold my 7D and bought the 70D. The other differences between the two are minor. N

I'll back this one up. The 7D's best and worst feature is it's AF. It was revolutionary at the time, but it has an intrinsic jitter that eats away at least 2fps from the frame rate from a keepers standpoint.

If your buying a camera today, pick the 70D. Better IQ overall, better noise quality, more stable AF system.
 
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Aglet said:
100 said:
So all in all (pattern) noise of Canon sensors can be a problem under specific and rather exceptional circumstances. Scenes with a dynamic range between 11 and 13 stops where bracketing (hdr) isn’t an option, you don’t want blown highlights and still need to push the shadows more than 2 stops.
I don't think we're really arguing from opposite directions here. :)
I have plenty of good images taken with the lower DR Canons and find I can even push shadows from my 60D a reasonable amount before banding is a problem. My 40D files can be pushed even futher if needed.
My kind of landscape shooting often requires some DR compression to make into a suitable print, especially if the print is to be displayed in low lighting conditions. FWIW, my 60D has provided me with the greatest number of excellent sunlit landscape files so far.

Banding on my 7D it was much worse and my 5d2 sometimes showed banding in smooth midtones or even slightly raised lower midtones. I just wrote the latter two off as inadequate for my needs and got rid of them. I was really disappointed with the low ISO performance of both of those cameras, to put it mildly. They were fine for high ISO.
To replace the 5d2, the d800 was the better choice for my kind of shooting at the time and I will retain them until I find some shortcoming ... none as yet unless I count the oil blobs that ended up on my sensors after a 1000+ shots.
I'm still waiting for a 7D replacement option, primarily for advanced AF and speed but also has to have good low ISO performance, if possible. The 70D almost fits that gap but I actually want a step up in AF performance from the original, and very good, 7D.

I normally use my 7D at higher ISO settings (between 800 and 2500), however I have done some landscape work with it. The 7D's worst performing ISO is 400. This is when the vertical banding problem shows up most, and because dynamic range is two stops lower than ISO 100, your most likely to run into it...and it DOES show up in the midtones at ISO 400.

I'm in the same boat with deciding what to do next. The 70D doesn't quite meet my needs...I'm VERY demanding on the body, and really need as much weather sealing as I can get. A better AF system, with more points, as well as a high frame rate are also very useful. I've been waiting for the 7D II, however seeing as I also do landscapes and astrophotography, I'm thinking the 5D III may be the better option.

For those who don't need professional-grade features, the 70D is the better option than the 7D today.
 
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