7D with 800 Great White Naked vs 5D Mark iii +1.4 iii Teleconverter

[Roger Doughty]

The reach is somewhat comparable: (1280mm for the 800 naked with the 7D vs 1,120mm for the 5D with the 1.4 tele). Noise and cropping are always going to be a much bigger issue with the 7D BUT!!!! I am wondering if my keeper rate will go through the roof with the superior AF speed running without a tele on a naked 800. Add to that the rumored 7Dii improved AF system. . .It makes me wonder.

I am a birder. I have no illusions that noise will be a much bigger problem with the 7dii. That issue alone may force me to stay with the 5D iii.

Thoughts?

 

[Vgramatikov]

Easy answer.

1. 7d and 500mm f/4 is 800mm equivalent and f/5.6 equivalent like DOF capabilities and rendering the fore/backgorund.

2. 5d iii and 500+1.4 is 700mm f/5.6 mm lens

Verdict:

- 100mm difference is not much in the field so i count this + for the Full Frame camera because you will be with same framing and f-stop but with bigger sensor and more resolution 18 vs 22 mp.

- 5d3 have much better af system (even with x1.4)and you have AF even at F/8.0 (you can use x2 teleconverter with AF) Again + for the Full frame camera because this means better af and usability with x2 teleconverer.

- 5d3 have more than 1-stop better iso than 7d. Let`s say 1.5 better so again + for the 5d3 because it will be with better IQ at 1600 iso than 7d at 800 iso. (remeber 7d is with f/4 lens and 5d3 is with 5.6 lens)

-Optical IQ and final resolution will be better for 5d3 and 500+1.4 than naked on 7d. This is for sure because of the bigger sensor area of 5d3 and because of the very good optic 500/4 and even 1.4.

-On 5d3 you can use naked 500/4 but on 7d you can not use 300 2,8 the 500/4 equivalent of the 500/4 on 5d3.
Again + for the FF camera because you can use this combo for closer action work and low light.

So..7d is only 2 fps faster nothing more.
With 7d you can not gain with weight or dimensions 1.4 is to small to be important.

For me the ideal and more interesting comparison is 7d and 300 2.8 IS mk2 vs 5d3 and 500/4. Here we will have more positives for the 7d like weight, dimensions, equivalent f-stops and reach. 300mm is better optically and final iq will be much closer like the FF IQ and so one.

Good luck. (i owned once 300 2.8 L is mk1 and 600/4L is) Believe me you do not need nothing more than 300 2.8 IS mk ii on the crop camera. With this lens you have very good 420/4 and good 600/5.6

Now i see that you speak about 800mm ...but the comparison is the same and the gain is for 5d3.
You do not want 800 for crop. Your subject will be to far away and the air between the lens and the subject will blow your IQ. Believe me. Even 600 is to long for crop sensor.

 

[rs]

Easy answer.

1. 7d and 500mm f/4 is 800mm equivalent and f/5.6 equivalent like DOF capabilities and rendering the fore/backgorund.

2. 5d iii and 500+1.4 is 700mm f/5.6 mm lens

Nearly - the 1.6x crop makes a 500/4 equivalent to a 800/6.4 lens vs a 700/5.6 on FF with a 1.4x TC

So in reality, the 800/5.6 behaves much like a 1280/9 on crop, vs an 1120/8 on FF and 1.4x TC.

I'd also argue that the supposed 7D2's AF system would be focusing at f5.6, vs the 5D3 at f8 - that should be an advantage, plus the FPS is nearly doubled. As stated, there's more than the theoretical 1.3 stops difference in S/N between the 5D3 and 7D1, so the gains of the faster lens are more than lost. But this is the unknown quantity of the 7D2 - who knows what it's S/N is?

You do not want 800 for crop. Your subject will be to far away and the air between the lens and the subject will blow your IQ. Believe me. Even 600 is to long for crop sensor.

Depends upon what size object you're focusing on. If it's as small as the lens can frame, you're only 6m away from the object - no issues there with the amount of air. If the humidity, pollution and heat haze levels are favourable, 100m could be perfectly fine. And other times getting closer simply isn't an option, so starting off with a competent lens/body can't hurt, even if the conditions aren't the best.

 

[Roger Doughty]

Vgramatikov,

Thank you for the extensive and thoughtful reply. Your logic resonates with me. By the way I also own a 500 f4 ii and love it. I use the 2x tele on it all the time. I dumped my 7D a few weeks ago because the noise issue was so unbearable in comparison to the 5D III. I couldn't see the point of it.

Roger

 

[Steve]

Now i see that you speak about 800mm ...but the comparison is the same and the gain is for 5d3.
You do not want 800 for crop. Your subject will be to far away and the air between the lens and the subject will blow your IQ. Believe me. Even 600 is to long for crop sensor.

I sort of agree. If your subject is so far away that you feel like you need 1200mm effective FOV to get a shot, the bird is probably too far away and not really worth it. BUT, 800mm can be very useful for increasing your working distance while still getting good magnification. I've used an 800mm from a hide and for shorebirds and it's pretty nice to get frame filling images from ~6-8 meters instead of trying to close in to ~3-4 meters. A 500 or 600 + 1.4x (or the Siggy 300-800 like I've got) is pretty ideal for getting really good magnification without being right on top of the birds.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

The reach is somewhat comparable: (1280mm for the 800 naked with the 7D vs 1,120mm for the 5D with the 1.4 tele). Noise and cropping are always going to be a much bigger issue with the 7D BUT!!!! I am wondering if my keeper rate will go through the roof with the superior AF speed running without a tele on a naked 800. Add to that the rumored 7Dii improved AF system. . .It makes me wonder.

I am a birder. I have no illusions that noise will be a much bigger problem with the 7dii. That issue alone may force me to stay with the 5D iii.

Thoughts?

The 7D focuses faster, but it is also less accurate. The Mark II may be better, we will just have to wait and see what actual users and testing tells us. One thing to remember is that a ton of AF points does not mean AF is more accurate. I'd get a 1D Mark IV over the 7D MK II, unless there is something that the specs don't reveal.