A Big Megapixel Discussion
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I don't think there is a lot of head room in the APS C format. Just how many pixels can you cram into that sensor size?
I calculated once that it would take over 46M pixels in a FF sensor to equal the density on the 7D.
Problem is moving that much data onto your memory card to keep a high frame rate
I calculated once that it would take over 46M pixels in a FF sensor to equal the density on the 7D.
Problem is moving that much data onto your memory card to keep a high frame rate
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Do not always think of an high end Camera.
I hope this Camera meets the D800, not the D4. Replacing the midlevel-series.
My Japanese girl-friend rumored, that Nikons replacement of their highend bodies will be a mixture of the d800 with the performance of the D4 with an superb low iso.
I am sorry, but Canon is 1 generation behind Nikon. If they would not have the dust-problem, I would switch too. A D600 would be great. Much cheaper then the 5D3, much better then the 6D.
And if they struggle to get back on the Camera-Olymp, I hope they do not see this as an chance of exponential rising of the prices.
I hope this Camera meets the D800, not the D4. Replacing the midlevel-series.
My Japanese girl-friend rumored, that Nikons replacement of their highend bodies will be a mixture of the d800 with the performance of the D4 with an superb low iso.
I am sorry, but Canon is 1 generation behind Nikon. If they would not have the dust-problem, I would switch too. A D600 would be great. Much cheaper then the 5D3, much better then the 6D.
And if they struggle to get back on the Camera-Olymp, I hope they do not see this as an chance of exponential rising of the prices.
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motorhead said:
Amen to that - it's why I still have 1DsMkIIIs. I could care less about video, otherwise I'd be shooting a CineAlta or ARRI Alexa with Zeiss Master Primes in PL mount.
If the high MP cam does low read noise, and 40mp+ (needs to double resolution to truly be 'better'), then great. And, keeping the large 1-series frame. The smaller cameras hurt after shooting all day. And the grips suck.
If not, it'll be 1DsMkIIIs for longer or Hasselblad H4/H5 from then out.
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At last, proper rumours return!!! 
On a serious note, it interests me that this rumour mentions "Canon is apparently quite motivated to make industry leading sensors again". My question would be why they lost that motivation in the first place; did they believe that sensor technology had reached a (temporary) plateau? Was it economic conditions that caused them to scale back R&D? Maybe Chipworks' article about DSLR sensors shed some light on Canon's reasoning:
http://www.chipworks.com/blog/technologyblog/2012/10/24/full-frame-dslr-cameras-canon-stays-the-course/ see also part I:
http://www.chipworks.com/blog/technologyblog/2012/10/23/full-frame-dslr-cameras-part-1-nikon-vs-sony/
The issue that concerns me most about Canon's position is economies of scale. Given the fact that fab facilities are an enormous fixed cost to establish and equip for a given technology level, if Canon are fabbing their own sensor chips in low volumes (compared to mobile devices and compacts), surely they are at a disadvantage compared to manufacturers (e.g. Sony) that can spread the costs over a larger volume of chips? Unless Canon can find a leaner method of producing their sensors, the only way that I can see them keeping costs down is by sticking with older fabrication processes for longer. This means that they will always be behind the curve for a larger proportion of the time than Sony (who have higher volumes that can support more frequent updates) or Nikon (who outsource production or design + production to third parties).
On a serious note, it interests me that this rumour mentions "Canon is apparently quite motivated to make industry leading sensors again". My question would be why they lost that motivation in the first place; did they believe that sensor technology had reached a (temporary) plateau? Was it economic conditions that caused them to scale back R&D? Maybe Chipworks' article about DSLR sensors shed some light on Canon's reasoning:
http://www.chipworks.com/blog/technologyblog/2012/10/24/full-frame-dslr-cameras-canon-stays-the-course/ see also part I:
http://www.chipworks.com/blog/technologyblog/2012/10/23/full-frame-dslr-cameras-part-1-nikon-vs-sony/
The issue that concerns me most about Canon's position is economies of scale. Given the fact that fab facilities are an enormous fixed cost to establish and equip for a given technology level, if Canon are fabbing their own sensor chips in low volumes (compared to mobile devices and compacts), surely they are at a disadvantage compared to manufacturers (e.g. Sony) that can spread the costs over a larger volume of chips? Unless Canon can find a leaner method of producing their sensors, the only way that I can see them keeping costs down is by sticking with older fabrication processes for longer. This means that they will always be behind the curve for a larger proportion of the time than Sony (who have higher volumes that can support more frequent updates) or Nikon (who outsource production or design + production to third parties).
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This would be the 'Big Megapixel' flagship for images that benefit from the pixels. You would also have a speed-oriented camera like the 1DX that would also be a flagship. As regularly noted, no camera can do it all.
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File size...file size...get a life, hard drives are cheap.
I would have already a MF if I woulda been able to figure out how to use 10-15 grand in canon glass on an MF camera body.
I trust Canon to have a decent sensor with adequate ISO performance.
I would have already a MF if I woulda been able to figure out how to use 10-15 grand in canon glass on an MF camera body.
I trust Canon to have a decent sensor with adequate ISO performance.
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Plus 100 to the two people who said we do not all want video. My first (and so far only) DSLR is the 5D2, which is renowned for video, but honestly I do not even know or care how to turn on the video recording. If they had made a duplicate version with no video, I would have bought that instead even if it was the same price.
I also do not see why anyone needs more megapixels than the current full frame offerings. I have photos in my place blown up to 40x60 inches, from 5d2 and from 100 speed film, and they look fantastic! Are people really doing six foot or eight foot enlargements that they need more megapixels?
I also do not see why anyone needs more megapixels than the current full frame offerings. I have photos in my place blown up to 40x60 inches, from 5d2 and from 100 speed film, and they look fantastic! Are people really doing six foot or eight foot enlargements that they need more megapixels?
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You'll be waiting awhile for the 5DIV. Let's hope Canon will have a solution very soon...2n10 said:
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traveller said:At last, proper rumours return!!!
Agreed!
Let's see what the 70 D sensor is going to be like, they are delaying it so long with respect to Nikon's D 7100 that hopefully it may mean a new tech sensor will be introduced with Canon's next camera which, according to rumors, should be just around the corner... that's why I'm waiting for it so eagerly. But I've no idea what this tech could be about, just shrinking the fab process from 500 nm to 250 or 180 or less is not enough to obtain considerably better DR, further innovation is mandatory. Could it be the use of something else instead of pure silicon for the CMOS (apart from Cu in back-end-of-line), like Intel did with its 45 nm process employing hafnium in their hi-k metal gate for a completely different purpose?
Well, I admit I'm ignorant in this respect, but I'm throwing this idea in with the hope that someone well-informed may contribute with some hint; as I said earlier, speculating is the most fun to me on Canon Rumors and learning from those technically skilled members here is the best part of it. I suspect that composite materials and composite nanostructures may represent the future of imaging sensors.
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My 2 cents, large MP bodies appeal to landscape shooters so a smaller body is more appealing. Nikon made the same decision with the D800 series. Sports and photojournalist shooters need higher frame rates which is mutually exclusive from high megapixels. If Vanon has any sense, a high MP camera will be in a small body.
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This is an interesting discussion...If this new medium format sized camera is not going in the 1DX type body then I suspect that it will be in the $4K price range? Seems to me that if they get much beyond that they have the same problem that they have now competing with Nikon's D800, which clearly gets better marks than does the 5D MK III
I am more interested in what this new sensor technology, as applied to a replacement for my 1DX will look like, be, and cost....I mean, how many fps does a wildlife or sports shooter need, 20? Or more?? I have seen DSLR technology come a long way in the last 10 years...and the current techology today, at the high end of the $$ scale, is pretty amazing...I guess it will be fun, if not EXPENSIVE, to see where it goes next.....we have seen what the latest lens costs are, $18K for the new Nikon 800mm and the 200-400 costing as much as the 600 II costs...oh well, I will be waiting....but I don't expect to see any replacement for the 1DX actually hit the streets before the end of 2015....thoughts??
I am more interested in what this new sensor technology, as applied to a replacement for my 1DX will look like, be, and cost....I mean, how many fps does a wildlife or sports shooter need, 20? Or more?? I have seen DSLR technology come a long way in the last 10 years...and the current techology today, at the high end of the $$ scale, is pretty amazing...I guess it will be fun, if not EXPENSIVE, to see where it goes next.....we have seen what the latest lens costs are, $18K for the new Nikon 800mm and the 200-400 costing as much as the 600 II costs...oh well, I will be waiting....but I don't expect to see any replacement for the 1DX actually hit the streets before the end of 2015....thoughts??
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OK, if they really want to impress everyone:
Either 34.56mp (4800x7200) or 56.62mp (6144x9216; extra credit for seeing why I chose the latter numbers).
ISO native to 102K (H2 is 408K); 12fps (24fps with the optional pellical mirror); Dual or Triple DIGIC 6 as required; high speed video mode (640x480 at 4800 fps).
Modified 1D body with dual battery compartments and built in thermoelectric cooler.
Less than 1 million yen.
I'd save up for that.
If they build it as a mirrorless at 750K yen, I might think about it. And make those Leica folks jealous.
Either 34.56mp (4800x7200) or 56.62mp (6144x9216; extra credit for seeing why I chose the latter numbers).
ISO native to 102K (H2 is 408K); 12fps (24fps with the optional pellical mirror); Dual or Triple DIGIC 6 as required; high speed video mode (640x480 at 4800 fps).
Modified 1D body with dual battery compartments and built in thermoelectric cooler.
Less than 1 million yen.
I'd save up for that.
If they build it as a mirrorless at 750K yen, I might think about it. And make those Leica folks jealous.
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There seems to be an awful lot of wishful thinking going on in this thread, with many hoping it will be in a 5D-type body - especially as that could indicate a more affordable price as compared to a 1D ?.
Personally I cannot see that happening. The 1D S makes more sense from where I am sitting. They make a flagship studio camera to go along with the flagship sport / high fps camera, and then remove certain features to eventually get down to a 5D Mark IV.
If they do call the new Megapixel camera the 1DS or the 1DXS what will they call the new 1DX in end-2014 early 2015?
It's all good, no matter what.
Personally I cannot see that happening. The 1D S makes more sense from where I am sitting. They make a flagship studio camera to go along with the flagship sport / high fps camera, and then remove certain features to eventually get down to a 5D Mark IV.
If they do call the new Megapixel camera the 1DS or the 1DXS what will they call the new 1DX in end-2014 early 2015?
It's all good, no matter what.
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wockawocka said:
you obviously don't have a medium format! they are a pain in the ass to use, so far behind in technology. price isn't everything, i want it to do the best job it can, price isn't the most important factor for a big chunk of the market.
what i need as an advertising photographer is more speed, more iso and lots of megapixels. my p65+ has enough pixels, it just cant be used in many situations. if canon can release a decent high megapixel camera that can do iso 800 at 3-5 fps, they will own the high end of the market.
paul
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Releasing a 1-series big MP camera still wouldn't really solve the `problem' of enabling Canon to compete with the D800. $3000 & $7000-$10,000 are different brackets altogether. It depends how desperately Canon feels the need to do this. Maybe they don't. I'm guessing the 5D iv will have about 30MP, but that won't happen for 2 years or more surely.
And no way will Canon name the camera 1d-"excess". Canon is a conservative company and that would not be conservative marketing.
Definitely one thing that is happening, and will continue to happen, in the camera market is more differentiation in FF options. In 2003 Canon had only 1, in 2005 2, currently 3 (not counting the 1DC). Clearly there will be more, probably an RX1-like camera, and more differentiation in 1 & 5 series bodies. Whether this will suck one option out of the APS-C lineup, who knows, I doubt it somehow.
And no way will Canon name the camera 1d-"excess". Canon is a conservative company and that would not be conservative marketing.
Definitely one thing that is happening, and will continue to happen, in the camera market is more differentiation in FF options. In 2003 Canon had only 1, in 2005 2, currently 3 (not counting the 1DC). Clearly there will be more, probably an RX1-like camera, and more differentiation in 1 & 5 series bodies. Whether this will suck one option out of the APS-C lineup, who knows, I doubt it somehow.
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