A BSI APS-C EOS R camera is coming in the second half of 2022 [CR2]

[Chig]

My sentiments exactly.

Unless they also make smaller RFS lenses I just don’t understand the appeal of a smaller sensor but FF lenses. Your not gaining anything, but losing IQ. You can always crop FF for more lens reach. I get that some people want a smaller compact kit for travel or convenience for casual shooting but wasn’t there a statement that Canon wasn’t going to make any RFS glass? Or has that changed again? I guess you could adapt EFS glass. They must be planning on smaller lenses for the system otherwise I see no advantage.

You gain higher pixel density , if this is 30mp that's nearly double the R5 cropped 17mp.

 

[Chig]

Assuming that the rumour is correct(!), where in the product line would a R7 fit in?

The birding etc community currently using 7Dii want: eye-AF, build quality, >8fps (14fps M6ii), dual card which will put it at least at the R6 level so around USD2500. The cost of the R6 full frame sensor vs a BSI APS-C sensor could potentially be approximately the same cost (newer technology vs larger wafer size). Would it compete against the R6 ie more megapixels?
$6500 1DXiii
$6000 R3
$3900 R5
$2500 R6
$1500 R
$1200 90D
$1000 RP
<$1000 rumoured low end FF body. Likely without EVF a la Sigma fp style

12 months out is a long time for a CR2 rumour especially as there was the same rumour last year for end 2021 delivery.

I'd be happy to pay the same price as an R6 for an APS-C version especially if it's new BSI sensor (hopefully stacked)

 

[koenkooi]

[..] The 7D2 still out-reaches even the R5, [..]

Genuine question: Is that still true when it comes to actual detail, with the huge difference in AA filters and sensor tech? A 20MP 1DX3 out resolved my 26MP RP when it came to actual detail, especially after ISO1600. And that's 6MP apart instead of the 3MP between R5-crop and 7D2.

 

[petitBogueBogue]

Devil's advocate::
Will EF-M mount system be dead? Now after the launching of the RF-mount APS-C camera, a series of RF-S series lenses will certainly be developed. Then Cannon can very well launch a RF-S to EF-M mount adapter to keep the EF-M system alive. Is there such a possibility?
What do you think? ^^

 

[David - Sydney]

I'd be happy to pay the same price as an R6 for an APS-C version especially if it's new BSI sensor (hopefully stacked)

I'd agree that there will be a niche of people prepared to pay for R7 that is a R6 + APS-C sensor but how would Canon market it and not cannibalise R6 sales especially with the headline (expected) 30mp?

For APS-C I see 2 market niches for a new sensor:
1. $3k R7 with 30mp for 7D replacement (inbetween R6 and R5 like the 7D was)
2. $1k R7 with ~20-24mp for 90D replacement with no EVF

For #1, wide angle lenses aren't a priority as "reach"/pixel density seems to be the key requirement
For #2, there will need to be cheap/small wide angle/kit lenses released

 

[David - Sydney]

Devil's advocate::
Will EF-M mount system be dead? Now after the launching of the RF-mount APS-C camera, a series of RF-S series lenses will certainly be developed. Then Cannon can very well launch a RF-S to EF-M mount adapter to keep the ED-M system alive. Is there such a possibility?
What do you think? ^^

APS-C RF will not kill EF-M. 2 completely different markets for size/price/quality. EF-M will tick along quite nicely for Canon for the foreseeable future without substantial new models.

I don't agree that "a series of RF-S series lenses will certainly be developed"
If the R7 is a high end model then cheap/wide angle lenses aren't essential. The RF lens roadmap shows a RF 18-45mm f/4-5.6 IS STM which would give ~30mm FF equivalent at the wide end for a crop sensor.

If a low end model R7 is released then there will need to be 1-2 kit/zoom lenses specific for APS-C RF mount eg 10-22mm and maybe a 15-85mm.

There isn't a RF-S mount. It is RF mount with potentially a APS-C sensor in it. There isn't an adapter from EF-M to RF mount due to the flange distance. I can't imagine one for any APS-C lens for RF mount.

 

[caffetin]

Hmm,new apsc-r mount and rf 28-70mm?

 

[Antono Refa]

Unless they also make smaller RFS lenses I just don’t understand the appeal of a smaller sensor but FF lenses. Your not gaining anything, but losing IQ. You can always crop FF for more lens reach.

The advantage could be in higher pixel density. Canon and Nikon made APS-C sensors with higher pixel density than FF sensors for a very long time.

 

[Traveler]

that's what I'm thinking. I don't see value. users can now crop to get APSC format. Maybe smaller lens would be interesting but Canon has to focus on getting more RF FF lens out. Sony+Sigma+Tamron are producing good E mount lenses at a very fast pace.

I don’t like the idea of APSC R system but it makes some sense. You got ~2.5 times more reach (for birders, who crop even on 800mm) and second you get cheaper fast camera without cannibalizing high end sports camera

 

[Traveler]

I still hope for R mark II. The R6 is too big and bulky and doesn’t have top LCD. R5 is way too expensive.
The original R is the sexiest camera ever made (to me). Just give it a bit faster processor.

 

[Deleted member 381342]

yeah, but that's a Sony BSI...

j/k Sony fanboys... it's still a good sensor...

It’s not just Sony BSI. BSI is better by a small percentage, but not as much of an improvement as we’ve see. In the past from new processors.

 

[MoonMadness]

I love Canon. There's a shortage of chips and parts etc, but they somehow manage to find the raw materials to make a camera no one was looking for, while some of us are waiting for a new budget FF camera that will be everything that the RP wasn't.

Why would Canon want to put priority in a camera that only "some" are waiting to buy?

Besides, they already have ONE budget FF (RP) camera. As well as at most ONLY one RF in each price/category range and NO crop RF body.

It's become a ME ME ME and ME First day of age

 

[blackcoffee17]

Since Canon is starting from scratch with this mount I wonder if they would consider going to 1.5x crop for APS-C.

Not starting from scratch because old EFS lenses will be adaptable so bigger sensor could cause some extra vignetting maybe.

 

[sanj]

Best to speak for just yourself. About 90% of ILC sales are APS-C, and about 43% of ILC sales are DSLRs. So clearly ‘most others’ don’t share your preference, at least based on what is actually being bought.

I am not most, but I agree with Camrone.

 

[LogicExtremist]

I can no longer recommend barbed wire to anyone looking to construct a fence. It hasn’t been updated in 150 years, it’s dead in the water.

Hmm, this would be an argument from false equivalence, since barbwire does not get additional accessories to increase functionality on a periodic basis, whereas interchangeable lens cameras get new lenses. This wouldn't be a logically fallacious argument if you were making the comparison to a fixed lens camera, or if barbwire came with the option of a range of water-resistant toxins to coat the tips with! Sorry, couldn't resist!

 

[koenkooi]

I don’t like the idea of APSC R system but it makes some sense. You got ~2.5 times more reach [..]

You only get more 'reach' if the pixel size is smaller on the APS-C. If Canon would reuse the R3 sensor technology, you'd get a 10MP APS-C sensor and no extra reach compared to the R3 and R5.

 

[LogicExtremist]

I wonder how they will approach lenses going forward.

Assuming the rumor is true and Canon really do produce a BSI APS-C EOS R camera, they possibly might only need to produce a kit lens that covers something close to the traditional range of 18-55mm (28.8-88mm full frame equivalent), and perhaps something a bit wider, like the old 10-18mm EF-S lens.

I would speculate that the range of lower end budget build lenses released or coming soon would cover most requirements.

• RF 16mm f/2.8 = 25.6mm on APSC
• RF 35mm F/1.8 = 56mm on APSC
• RF 50mm f/1.8 = 80mm on APSC
• RF 85mm f/2 = 136mm on APSC
• RF 100-400 f/5.6-8 = 160-640mm on APSC
• RF 600mm f/11 = 960mm on APSC
• RF 800mm f/11 = 1,280mm on APSC

These lenses would provide equivalents to the popular sizes of 24mm, 50mm, 85mm and 135mm in prime lenses on a crop sensor body, and quite a bit of the long telephoto range from 160-1,280mm with the rest of the primes and zooms.

It wouldn't be the first time that APSC users have used full frame budget Canon lenses, the legendary nifty-fifty EF 50m f/1.8 STM was full frame glass after all, Canon never produced a 50mm EF-S lens, the closest was the 60mm EF-S Macro,

This is a purely speculative minimalist option that Canon may take, or they might not and produce a swag of budget crop lenses. It depends on what the market wants / what will sell, or what the sales strategy is, neither of which we know anything about.

 

[tbgtomcom]

uhhhh...that's the M6 MkII.

I'd be surprised if someone hasn't posted this already.

Yes, I realize there's an M6-2, I was referring to an RF mount equivalent. I see great reviews for the M6-2 but you don't get the same form factor or battery as the R models, and I'd guestimate that the ef-m mount is in it's winter years. My hope is to see it eventually lead to an RF rebel camera. The more RF cameras, the more chance for new lens options to come into play.

 

[AlanF]

It wouldn't be the first time that APSC users have used full frame budget Canon lenses, the legendary nifty-fifty EF 500m f/1.8 STM ...

I'd love to see a 500m f/1.8 lens. A bit heavy for me though. And I wonder what the mfd of a 500m lens would be? Perfect for a bird 1km away, I guess.

 

[bergstrom]

Why would Canon want to put priority in a camera that only "some" are waiting to buy?

Besides, they already have ONE budget FF (RP) camera. As well as at most ONLY one RF in each price/category range and NO crop RF body.

It's become a ME ME ME and ME First day of age

an FF with worst battery ever. THIS new one SHOULD be what the RP SHOULD have been.