A camera for backpacking into the wilderness...

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I considered the G1X for hiking but when you consider the high price for what it is and then actually pick one up and hold it, you will likely blow off the G1X due to value concerns and the sheer weight of the thing. And buying any other 4/3 or other system means a LOT of money for this purpose.

I can't get away from the fact that when hiking, you will have to deal with dirt, moisture, humidity, impacts, etc. To mitigate disaster, you will have to manage/pack/cushion/make space for the camera, lenses, etc more than in other settings. In short, take the 5D2 + 40mm/2.8 if you must but store/protect them in your pack while hiking. Don't worry about them. Keep a P&S like the rugged D20 on your pack shoulder strap within easy reach with a carabiner or something for all the spontaneous shots while you're on the trail with the family and being active.

When stopped for long periods or when you are camped then pull out the DSLR and enjoy the higher quality. It's up to you how much you take but just remember the proper priority order.... you are backpacking with the family and taking pictures. You aren't on a paid photo shoot with the family tagging along for fun. One is secondary to the other. Don't forget which one is which!
 
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Last November I hiked 129 miles over two weeks in Nepal to the base camp of Mount Everest, and I brought a 5D3, 17-40 f/4L and 70-200 f/4L IS with me in a Lowepro Photo Sport 200 pack. The gear worked great, was weather-sealed and provided excellent image quality with a manageable weight (5 lbs). My pack was only about 20 pounds fully loaded though, which I'm guessing is considerably less than yours if you are hiking self-supported. If I had to carry much more weight, I would definitely slim down by getting rid of the 70-200 first. That would bring it down to 3.3 lbs. The Shorty 40 looks nice but when I'm hiking I tend to shoot wider than 40mm... I gravitate towards the 17mm end of the 17-40. I would likely just bring the 17-40 as the single lens and be done with it. I have been considering the Fuji X100s as well, but not for hiking due to the longer focal length. That's just my preference however...

I have one recommendation for carrying photo gear while hiking... the Op/Tech reporter/backpack straps (available here: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/485766-REG/OP_TECH_USA_1301652_System_Connectors_Reporter_Backpack_Set_of.html) work amazingly well. They allow you to keep the camera in front of you while hiking, with the weight distributed along your backpack straps instead of your neck like a traditional strap. For long distance hikes it's a lifesaver. I had to get the System Connector Extensions (regular length, not extra long) to work well with the Photo Sport 200 pack. I used these on the Everest Base Camp hike and in retrospect I can't imagine doing that hike (or any hike now) without them. These might allow you to still bring your 5D2 with you.

In case you are interested, here is a link to my Nepal photos... the first set are from Kathmandu where I had the 50mm with me, but after that it was 17-40 and 70-200 only:
https://picasaweb.google.com/101523717119396165775/2012NepalTrip02
 
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aroo said:
jabbott said:
In case you are interested, here is a link to my Nepal photos... the first set are from Kathmandu where I had the 50mm with me, but after that it was 17-40 and 70-200 only:
https://picasaweb.google.com/101523717119396165775/2012NepalTrip02

Wow awesome! It'll take a while to get through all these great images. Is that the 70-200 w/o IS?

It was the 70-200 f/4L IS. I just modified my earlier post to mention that. Whoops! :) I should also mention that I geotagged the photos so from the right side of the PicasaWeb page you can view them on a Google Map or in Google Earth. Viewing them with Google Earth works well because you can see the terrain we hiked.
 
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Sorry in advance for the length. Hopefully you will find some value from the following info, take it or leave it...

Since it appears this thread is leaning toward taking the DSLR and having it out and available the entire time, not just during stops, I experimented with and tested using the Cotton Carrier for hiking with the DSLR. It works well because of several reasons. It doesn't swing. It doesn't bounce. It doesn't hang out, swing or hit the ground if you lean over. It also provides the nice counter weight in front. It isn't attached to your main pack so when you need to remove your main pack, it doesn't go with it. This is a big issue because if you are removing a 40-70 lb backpack, once you start the process of removing it, it's likely going where you planned to put it, with or without the camera going along for the ride and into the dirt. It's bad enough forgetting to disconnect the pack chest strap and strangling yourself but if there's a camera involved, then you are really having to deal with unexpected issues and you could possibly pull a muscle or something trying to deal with a heavy pack and protect a camera as you are in the middle of the removal process.

Also, depending on where you are hiking, sudden weather like rain could be an issue and so you should have something handy to cover the DSLR regardless of how you keep it attached. Ditto for when you are drinking, eating, or whatever. And if it's hot, you will be sweating and that can drip on the camera. The Cotton Carrier comes with some kind of cover thing as an option I think.

I'm not timid by any means taking a DSLR into the outdoors. I pretty much assume, expect and am braced for a potential loss or damage event on every trip. But I do my best to think ahead and use a system that hopefully prevents most common forms of damage or abuse.

Perhaps consider a hiking/pack umbrella. They make a few that are very light, flexible and durable that you can attach to your pack straps and will not require your hands. This allows you to stay dry underneath in light or non-windy rain or snow. (Horizontal monsoons, not so much!) I considered and briefly tested this also for taking DSLR pictures on the go. The umbrella also helps keep you from sweating your a$$ off from wearing rain gear for hours during misty and drizzly conditions while you hike. The links below show two different products and the youtube video gives a decent idea of what using one would be like.

http://www.euroschirm.com/schirm/Swing_handsfree/index.cgi?session=7ia8cnFV4uTpH&sprache_land=usa
http://www.golite.com/Chrome-Dome-Trekking-Umbrella-P928.aspx
GoLite Umbrella Review

I spent months trying out different methods of using the DSLR and hiking. IMHO, it's not the weight or even the risk to the equipment that bothers me. It's the logistics of keeping up with it, packing/unpacking it, making room for it along with the other stuff. Things like ultralight stools, a pillow and camp shoes are a godsend on a long expedition style hike. Everything contributes to the list of stuff you have to manage and carry but they are servicing the primary purpose of the activity, hiking and maintaining your body as it endures the challenges you demand of it. Don't forget, you have to carry enough food and water for whatever duration necessary. And you also said you are carrying for the family too. I don't think you will be able to use any kind of ultralight pack. They are all designed for 35 lbs or less. You will likely need something like a Kelty RedCloud 90 or 110! For this reason, I like the P&S rugged cam for totally carefree hiking and then the DSLR to satisfy my IQ needs while stopped. At that point, take the 40/2.8 or my favorite, the 16-35/2.8. (The 17-40 would also be great but only f4.) Maybe a 28/1.8 or other fast but light prime for very low light like campfires. Consider the LensCoat DSLR Cover for keeping the DSLR protected in the pack and put that in a heavy duty ziplock. http://tinyurl.com/b8n7n8r

FLASH - You are using a FF body so you will need fill flash. Yes, you will. Get a Sunpak RD2000 with the StoFen Diffuser made for it. Put some foil in the diffuser to direct the light more forward. Gaffer tape the diffuser to the flash. Aim the flash up at an angle for better results indoors, in shadows, etc but remove the diffuser in total bright sun. Use Energizer Lithium AAs for long life and very low weight. Expect about two days from each pair assuming you run the flash about 1-2 stops down like I do.

Last thing - Trekking Poles. Get Aluminum so they bend instead of snap/shatter like carbon fiber does. Leki has some (Aergon) that you can install their 1/4-20 bolt inside of the hand grip. Or get a trekmount to fit on any pole which is what I did. http://www.trekmount.com/ But of course, what will you do with the trekking poles when you want to grab the camera to take pictures? Again, grabbing the P&S on my left shoulder strap while still moving on the trail one handed is easier then having to stop the group, remove the poles and lean them somewhere (where they fall over anyway) and use two hands to manage the DSLR. I actually rigged up two super magnets high up on my pack to hold the trekking poles so I never had to deal with them when I took pictures and no one else had to be bothered helping me.

In conclusion, I would like to implore you to do some "shakedown hikes" where you try out several different methods and ideas before you go on the actual trip. And I don't mean walk up and down the street. I mean hike up and down hills in similar conditions/weather and go for at least 3-4 miles. You need to know how it feels after you are tired and you need to be sure your feet/boots can handle the extra weight, etc. Anyone can hike for 3 miles no problem. But once you hit 5 miles, you start to discover where the problems are. Blisters on feet, wear points on hips or other areas and you start to ever so slightly question why you brought something or other. You might decide that DSLR in front of you is an annoyance and not worth the trouble. That's why I have a weatherproof P&S hanging on a supermagnet while on the trail. No fuss, it can get wet, dropped, used one handed, etc with zero worry or annoyance.

Good luck and have a great time with your family!! That's JOB 1!
 
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5D mk II and 40mm. Add 70-200 f4 non IS. And, for UWA, 17-40? This would work smashingly.

Or, a 7D, a 15-85, and you could be very good to go. Add in a 70-200 f4 non IS. Put that 40mm lens in there too. Know, however, that you will be seeing a different view between the two cameras. Canon just doesn't do equivalence... yet...

Alternately, for both, the 70-300 L also.
 
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No offence to anyone posting to this thread but I think you are going to find that avid hikers are going to urge you to go minimal while the photographers without much hiking experience are going to offer advice about all the lenses you should take. I would NOT take more than two lenses and even then I think you are pushing your luck due to the situation you are in, having to carry gear for more than one night for more than just yourself. Keep in mind that jabbott mentioned that he only carried 20 pounds. I'm guessing half of that was photo gear and the other half was snacks, water and weather gear. He obviously had sherpas or porters or whatever you want to call them. That sounds like a BLAST!! All the fun, none of the weight!!

I really hope you have a great time but I also hope you do your due diligence and test hike everything ahead of time. Please let us know what you learn as you prepare, what you finally decide and keep tossing out those questions!!
 
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Sorry to dominate this thread but as I re-read your original post, it occurs to me that this is just you and your son, no other adults, correct? Since your son isn't carrying a lot of weight, he must be young. So this means everything revolves around you. I gotta admit that this is worrisome due to safety concerns. You are carrying a lot of weight. How far from civilization will you be? If you get hurt, turn an ankle or whatever, what is your emergency plan? Will you be in cell phone range and how will they get to you if you can't walk out? I don't want your wonderful father-son experience to become a nightmare. Make sure someone knows your itinerary and you have check-in times. I realize you are probably experienced enough to already know this but I'd rather say it rather than assume. You'd be amazed at how little some people plan a trip they think will be all roses and discover the harsh reality of the outdoors later. Don't be one of them! Day hikes are completely different from multi-day trips. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!! Different gear, different planning and different mindset!
 
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JPAZ

If only I knew what I was doing.....
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jabbott said:
I have one recommendation for carrying photo gear while hiking... the Op/Tech reporter/backpack straps (available here: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/485766-REG/OP_TECH_USA_1301652_System_Connectors_Reporter_Backpack_Set_of.html) work amazingly well. They allow you to keep the camera in front of you while hiking, with the weight distributed along your backpack straps instead of your neck like a traditional strap.

+1 on this. A recommendation, though. The Op-tech straps are almost perfect but the clips on the end to your backpack straps can open. I got very small carabiners that I also fasten at this end as insurance.

My setup is an F-Stop Loka pack with the reporter straps holding my ThinkTank holster. I keep the camera in the holster for protection but it is right on my chest for easy access.

I also heartily agree on the umbrella. I do use hiking poles but my camera is in my holster (and there is a raincover with this holster) while a small folded umbrella is hanging within easy reach.

Did a 14 day trek in Northern Nepal with this setup. BUT, frankly, my wife was much happier with her NEX-7 in a little fanny-type pack at her waist........Everything is a trade-off.

JP
 
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JPAZ said:
+1 on this. A recommendation, though. The Op-tech straps are almost perfect but the clips on the end to your backpack straps can open. I got very small carabiners that I also fasten at this end as insurance.
Glad to see there are some other Nepal trekkers on this forum. :) I wanted to mention that some folks have made velcro strips that fasten around the quick-disconnects for the Op/Tech straps in order to prevent them from opening inadvertently. The manufacturer also sells this but it costs more than it should considering it's just a few velcro strips.
 
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RustyTheGeek said:
Keep in mind that jabbott mentioned that he only carried 20 pounds. I'm guessing half of that was photo gear and the other half was snacks, water and weather gear. He obviously had sherpas or porters or whatever you want to call them. That sounds like a BLAST!! All the fun, none of the weight!!
It was a blast! About 1/4 was camera gear and 3/4 was snacks, water, poles, iPad and weather gear. Yes, we had porters carrying our duffel bags with changes of clothes, sleeping bag, etc. I've done countless day hikes in the Rocky Mountains with a similar setup (without iPad and without the porters) and it works very well. For multi-day hikes though where I would have to bring extra food, stove, etc., it would be tough to decide what to bring in terms of camera gear. Maybe that's what Canon made the EOS M for? :)
 
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jabbott, you are obviously living the life!! :) And it appears you've got some experience in various types of excursions.

In terms of what the OP is faced with, forgetting photography per se for a moment, what is your opinion concerning what he should do in this situation? As I mentally add up what he needs to take to make this a nice trip for himself and his son, the weight just keeps going up, up, up with no one to help him carry it! I don't see much room for the camera stuff. IMHO, his best option is to just stick with a simple P&S + the necessary batteries, etc. I prefer the rugged D20 for no worries but I would also say that a G15 or S110 would work great as long as he could keep it clean, dry and not drop it. Also perhaps the SX50 that is discussed in another thread although he probably doesn't need that much zoom. I'm trying to avoid the other mini camera "systems" because they cost $1000's of dollars. I'm attempting to suggest options that require spending less than $500 for another "hiking camera" since he is willing/able to take his 5D2 on other shorter trips anyway. Most of the small "systems" are fragile too.

And finally, if a small P&S is taken, that leaves more room/weight allowance for some lightweight extension accessories that would make it easy to include both father & son in a lot of great portraits!

Consider both of these items to get the camera out in front of both of them and have a nice landscape shot with them in the foreground...

http://www.adorama.com/TRTPZS.html - Tamrac Zipshot,TR406,Compact, Ultra-Light Aluminum Tripod with Ball Head
http://www.adorama.com/TPXSP1.html - XShot Pocket Telescopic Camera Extender
 
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RustyTheGeek said:
Sorry to dominate this thread but as I re-read your original post, it occurs to me that this is just you and your son, no other adults, correct? Since your son isn't carrying a lot of weight, he must be young. So this means everything revolves around you. I gotta admit that this is worrisome due to safety concerns. You are carrying a lot of weight. How far from civilization will you be? If you get hurt, turn an ankle or whatever, what is your emergency plan? Will you be in cell phone range and how will they get to you if you can't walk out? I don't want your wonderful father-son experience to become a nightmare. Make sure someone knows your itinerary and you have check-in times. I realize you are probably experienced enough to already know this but I'd rather say it rather than assume. You'd be amazed at how little some people plan a trip they think will be all roses and discover the harsh reality of the outdoors later. Don't be one of them! Day hikes are completely different from multi-day trips. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!! Different gear, different planning and different mindset!

Thanks again for all the great replies in this thread....

It will be me and my 10yr old son. The hike will be remote, but it is regularly travelled by others - we should not be completely alone. I am a very experienced hiker (usually hike 200-300 miles per hiking season and snowshoe in the winter, and always use poles - saved my wrists on many occasions), but this will be the first time I have taken my son on an extended trip like this. He already hikes with me, but up until now only on day hikes. This past season he had no trouble on a 13 mile single day trip. My main concern was controlling camera weight (while trying to preserve IQ as much as possible) since I will be carrying most of the gear. My son will have a water pack and carry some of his own food, but I want to limit his pack weight so that he enjoys the trip. After reading the advice, I am leaning toward taking my 5DII with one lens. I think I will check into the Cotton Carrier too.
 
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Sounds great jrda2! I think CC also has a smaller item that attaches to the pack shoulder strap now but I haven't used it and it may not work as well for a large DSLR. Hard to say. It might be the greatest thing ever.

For me, Photography and Hiking sort of collide. They are two loves that tend to conflict a bit. Photography wants IQ and heavy lenses and cameras + tons of extra stuff while Hiking wants light weight, less stuff and simplicity. It's a hell of a balancing act!!

Only you can decide what your son will handle, tolerate and enjoy but it sounds like you should load him down with all the camera gear!! :) And his water+food! ;) And the tent! :eek: And all your snacks!!! ??? Come on, son!! Buck up!! It's only another 3 miles to camp! This is fun!!

Of course I'm kidding but I hope you share some pictures of the excursion. It does sound like it will be a lot of great fun and memories. Are you and your son involved with Boy Scouts at all? Shameless Plug -> Scouts is a great experience for young men!!
 
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Depending on what pictures you want out of the 5DII, I would lean toward something like the 16-35 or 17-40 as a single lens solution. Anything longer would be hard to use if you wanted to turn the camera around and get portraits or get big wide vistas. The 16-35 also has the added benefit of working in lower light. I have the version 1 of the 16-35 and it works great for me on both FF and Crop. Next I guess would be the 24-105 but after that, you are looking at higher weight and bulk concerns. Another idea might be a Tamron zoom with VC. Those lenses are a bit of a compromise on IQ but they are lighter and provide a more versatile zoom range. I have a 28-300 Tamron superzoom and it works OK for most daytime pictures that I use for scout slide shows, etc. I've also used the 18-270 on crop bodies with similar satisfaction. Those Tamron lenses are not weather sealed in the slightest however so keep that in mind with regard to dust and moisture.

I'm looking forward to hearing how things progress for you on this!
 
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jrda2 said:
After reading the advice, I am leaning toward taking my 5DII with one lens.

That's the route I'd lean towards as well, but with a caveat / twist.

No matter what, I'd make sure I had the Shorty McForty. If nothing else, use it as the body cap for the 5DII. And, yes -- the lens really is (almost) as small and lightweight as the body cap.

You can then also think about taking a second lens. Which lens? Your favorite, whichever that is. I'd go for the TS-E 24 II, probably, but good arguments could be made for any of the zooms. The 17-40 or 16-35 for landscapes; the 24-105 for most anything that you might stumble upon; the 70-200 f/4L if you're into critters. Or maybe even something like the 100 macro, giving you both macro ability and a short telephoto in one lens.

When making a decision which lens for a second, don't forget that you've got the normal-to-slightly-wide range perfectly covered with the Shorty McForty. That lens and camera combination is so perfect for snapshots it's not even funny. Put the camera in green square mode and turn on live view and hand it to somebody and they probably won't even realize they've got anything particularly special in their hands -- and, yet, it's arguably the reigning low light image quality champion and will give you better results around the campfire than just about anything else.

Cheers,

b&
 
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I think TrumpetPower is on to something and he has inspired me to use my Shorty-McForty more in the future. For the past several years, I have used the prime 28/1.8 in the same manner as Trumpet proposes the 40 be used for. A great go-to lens for good snapshots that is wonderful in low light and plenty wide for most things. 40mm for me is starting to get a bit long. I prefer 35 and below for a single lens solution but that's just me. I lean towards the wide (wild) side! ;)
 
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I tend to be a fanatic when it comes to backpacking and camera gear. There's NO WAY I'm going into a pristine, alpine location on what may be a once in a lifetime visit, without carrying the necessary equipment to thoroughly capture the vistas with the highest quality. I want NO REGRETS once I return home. That mentality does come at a physical price as my personal pack is always right at #60 for a week long trip. That usually translates into #40 for pack and hiking equipment/supplies and #20 of photo gear which includes my 7D, 24-105, 10-22, Sigma 50-500, Gitzo mountaineer carbon fiber tripod and a variety of filters, cards, remotes and filters.

I have found the Lowepro zoom AW chest packs to be the best for such an approach. I can keep my camera with 50-500 on my chest for quick access, I can keep quite a quantity of the other gear in the same pack, I can wear it around my neck, or using the previously mentioned straps, I can attach it to the packframe for less weight on my neck. This also provides a completely waterproof option as the AW series packs have a built in rain hood.

Many won't carry such a load, but the images I have brought home with me as a result of carrying top quality gear more then make up for the physical discomfort, and I'll continue doing such until I am physically unable.

I'd still carry the 5D III and as much lens as physically possible, especially if you are planning to use the images for anything more then viewing.

As Cotton Carier owner, I'd recommend the Toploader AW packs above the CC for the protection and also the extra room for other equipment.
 
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Great post strikerwy! Man, why didn't I pose this question a year ago? :D So much good info and responses!!

Anyway, I think a fundamental consideration with regard to the gear carried is what type of group you are with, what is appropriate and acceptable to impose on that group. In my case, I am with Boy Scouts and Adult Scouters. I'm never on a photography trip or surrounded by other photographers. I have a mixed set of obligations and responsibilities and most of the people around me are either less experienced hikers or tasked with other priorities so my photography is all up to me. Plus, I need to set a good example for others by making safe and sane choices with my gear and think of the group. I don't feel comfortable asking for assistance and no one around me really relates to the photography addiction I am afflicted with. In fact, some probably think I'm nuts. And a select few are even irritated by it if it ever causes any problems or distractions. Fortunately I've been doing it for years so most everyone is glad I do it and they are supportive. But if I ever end up needing help with shedding weight on a hike because I don't feel well, pull a muscle or something, I don't want others judging me based on the fact that I am carrying 10+ extra pounds of needless (to them) camera gear that now they are having to help carry. Plus, I feel like I am imposing regardless of what the weight consists of. A group of photographer hikers would understand but a group of "normal" adults focused on surviving the hike themselves and supporting the boys might find it a bit selfish on my part.

This comment post is a bit off topic but my point is that no one should ever hike alone and when you hike with others, it's a team effort and so even if you plan to carry a bunch of photo weight on your own, it still impacts the group because that's weight you can't carry for others to help even out the group load of food, water, etc. Make sure the group is on board with what you decide to carry if you are carrying extra non-essentials. Nobody will question a P&S but when you carry a DSLR with a big lens, another lens, batteries, misc other stuff etc then others may start to have an opinion or object, if not to others at least to themselves. And they have a right to feel that way because all individual choices do impact the group as a whole.

Okay, the Hiking Etiquette PSA is now concluded. :D
 
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