A Canon Hollywood Event on November 3, 2011

[philHolland]

On the topic of lenses that sprouted up here.

Canon lenses are suitable and have been used in motion pictures for years (I've used them myself for just that). Above that, for those using VistaVision systems through Super35 there are lenses that have been rehoused from still lenses built by Nikon, Canon, Olympus, and Leica.

Most of what people are after when it comes to higher quality cinema glass is "flatness" (no barrel distortion/pin cushioning), corner to corner sharpness, minimal lens breathing, and hopefully no true optical artifacts (like chromatic aberration, ghosting, etc). Basically providing a very natural viewing experience when pulling focus and swapping out glass. Optical quality is often more important than size and weight in the motion picture world.

That said, Canon and other manufacturers are trying to do something wildly different. They are trying to pack the most "bang" into the most compact "gun". Basically pushing for fewer optics, lighter weight, with a focus on portability. Optically towards price versus quality they are very nice. I have friends though who complain that the 70-200mm f/2.8L IS is too heavy.

Try shooting with a 45lb+ shoulder rig all day In fact these days, it's not totally uncommon for cinema gear to go up to 90lbs on a tripod. Which is scary in reality. It's like shooting a movie with your 5D Mark II and a small person sitting on the camera.

Lens selection is very personal for cinematographers (and photographers for that matter) and those who demand the most out of their optics don't mind buying (or more likely renting) lens kits that range in the $30k-$300K price point. I've seen a few films shoot with one versatile high quality zoom. However, most high end features are shot on primes. Often though, it's again, a personal choice between zoom and prime for the shooter.

 

[NormanBates]

when money, size and weight are not longer an issue, you can start to complain about stuff that regular people would never, ever, even think about; and that's when canon L glass starts to be sub-par

but even people using those super awesome cine lenses can perceive the awesomeness of a decent image in a small package for a (relatively) very low price, and that's where canon could come in

anybody interested in the world of huge cine lenses, please visit this blog:
http://timurcivan.blogspot.com/
for things such as a mildly negative review of the zeiss compact primes (because the look that the lenses deliver is not consistent throughout the range) ($3900 each):
http://timurcivan.blogspot.com/2011/07/examination-of-lenses-carl-zeiss.html
and an enthusiastic review of the cooke ipanchro set of cine primes ($7400 each):
http://timurcivan.blogspot.com/2011/04/examination-of-lenses-part-ii-cooke.html
(and yes, I know in many ways it's a bit like watching p0rn...)

 

[philHolland]

Project Imagin8ion

In terms of Project Imagin8ion, Ron Howard, and Canon; there was no clue on what the final project would be shot on other than "Canon cameras". While the trailer and preview concept was certainly shot with current HDSLRs, it would be solid publicity to have a big director like Ron Howard to be the first to do something out of the gate with some new toys.

Make's you wonder if that "8" is so innocent in that name.

 

[NormanBates]

an 8D with a DSLR body but catering to the video crowd would be awesome

I want:
* 7D style body
* 7D price
* no aliasing/moire
* high quality 422 codec
* clean ISO 3200
* 11 Mpix sensor with APS-C size but 16:9 aspect ratio (22.3 x 12.5 instead of 22.3 x 14.9mm), and a resolution of 4450x2490, for sharp 4K footage; if that's too much, 3 Mpix (2300x1300) for sharp 1080p will also make me very happy
* you can save the mirror, viewfinder, flash and even the AF system, just give me a canon-brand LCD loupe with a nice quick-release mechanism built-in in the swivel LCD, thankyouverymuch

 

[gene_can_sing]

I could be wrong, but I think the 8 is a reference to the final 8 photos that Ron Howard choose from thousands of photos, which is somehow an important aspect of his project.

Since Canon doesn't really have a high end video market to protect, I hope what they try to do is offer something in the near performance range of the RED, but at a more consumer price. Of course it will still be expensive (probably more than many are willing to spend), but REDs and Alexas are really, really expensive and mostly the domain of rental houses and a few individuals. They would really undercut RED and allow many more to own a camera and lenses capable of cinema quality.

 

[pedro]

oh, and by the way, my hopes for the 5D3 are pretty close to what gene_can_sing said: clean image (no aliasing/moire), better codec (422 XF), better low light (clean ISO 6400), and 1080p60

@NormanBates: As I am currently shooting a 30D saving up for 5Diii:
What would clean ISO 6400 mean compared to my 30D?
Would ISO 25600 on the 5Diii look something like my 30D's H (ISO3200) well exposed to the right or even cleaner?
Thanks in advance. Cheers, Pedro

 

[CdnBook]

I've been a pro DSLR cinematographer for two years now - words can't even begin to describe how badly I want a 5D3 with increased video performance, or an affordable 4-5k full-frame video camera! ;D

I think Canon's got an ace up their sleeve with regards to video, which might even rock the boat a little around RED and Alexa. My only concern is, Canon didn't know what they had when they launched the 5D2 (or at least how revolutionary it would become). Now they know exactly what they have, and may price it accordingly only because they can... which worries me.

I really hope the future of video at Canon continues on in the same spirit as the 5D2's affordability.

 

[Gothmoth]

cinematographer... mhm... would that not mean i can see you work in cinemas?

unfortunately all so called cinematographer i know produce for everything but the cinema... ;D

 

[pedro]

I really hope the future of video at Canon continues on in the same spirit as the 5D2's affordability.

plus one, could this give way to an FF 6D in the near future? with less video facilities...I don't use it anyway...good stills handheld at low light is the game I'm in... 8)

 

[CdnBook]

cinematographer... mhm... would that not mean i can see you work in cinemas?

unfortunately all so called cinematographer i know produce for everything but the cinema... ;D

Cinematography is an art form. Saying it has to appear in the cinema to be called cinematography is like saying paintings are only paintings if they're hung in an art gallery that you pay admission for. Silly.

 

[gene_can_sing]

cinematographer... mhm... would that not mean i can see you work in cinemas?

unfortunately all so called cinematographer i know produce for everything but the cinema... ;D

Cinematography is an art form. Saying it has to appear in the cinema to be called cinematography is like saying paintings are only paintings if they're hung in an art gallery that you pay admission for. Silly.

These days, I actually see a lot more interesting cinematography being done on Vimeo than the actual movies. Of course it's like comparing apples to oranges since films tend to be narrative driven, but from a pure photographic perspective, people are doing some great stuff because of the DSLRs.

 

[DuLt]

cinematographer... mhm... would that not mean i can see you work in cinemas?

unfortunately all so called cinematographer i know produce for everything but the cinema... ;D

Cinematography is an art form. Saying it has to appear in the cinema to be called cinematography is like saying paintings are only paintings if they're hung in an art gallery that you pay admission for. Silly.

These days, I actually see a lot more interesting cinematography being done on Vimeo than the actual movies. Of course it's like comparing apples to oranges since films tend to be narrative driven, but from a pure photographic perspective, people are doing some great stuff because of the DSLRs.

Let's not forget that most hollywood productions are either genre films, cookie cutted from a generic mold or adaptations.

 

[dstppy]

Let's not forget that most hollywood productions are either genre films, cookie cutted from a generic mold or adaptations.

Yeah, pretty much. Anyone who hasn't seen Lawrence of Arabia will get a really eerie feeling when they watch it for the first time like they've seen it every 2 years since it came out with different actors/scenery (never as good).

Blair Witch was something new when it came out, but I think most of us were over the newness about 28 minutes into it ;D

 

[unfocused]

I just received word from a close friend who is in an executive position at Canon that the November announcement will be for the newest version of the Canon Calculator Mouse.

They are inviting all the Hollywood Stars to the event and will be unveiling versions of the new mouse in a variety of designer colors and patterns. They have signed Victoria Beckham to be the new spokesperson for the device and even have a specially designed version called "Vicky Mouse."

 

[NormanBates]

oh, and by the way, my hopes for the 5D3 are pretty close to what gene_can_sing said: clean image (no aliasing/moire), better codec (422 XF), better low light (clean ISO 6400), and 1080p60

@NormanBates: As I am currently shooting a 30D saving up for 5Diii:
What would clean ISO 6400 mean compared to my 30D?
Would ISO 25600 on the 5Diii look something like my 30D's H (ISO3200) well exposed to the right or even cleaner?
Thanks in advance. Cheers, Pedro

when you neutralize the increase in resolution, the 5D2 has two stops better low-light than your 30D:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/483|0/%28brand%29/Canon/%28appareil2%29/179|0/%28brand2%29/Canon

the improvement from the 5D to the 5D2 was one stop, so maybe my hopes are not realistic...
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/483|0/%28brand%29/Canon/%28appareil2%29/176|0/%28brand2%29/Canon

but on the video side of things everything should be much easier: just switching from the current line-skipping to proper downsampling should deliver a huge reduction in noise

 

[jodym]

It may be wishful thinking, but I think it's interesting that three of the eight winners (Jen Berry, Brooke Shaden and Chris Wehner) specifically talk about the Canon 5D MII and how important it is to their work and what a great camera it is in their blogs entries. Another winner talks about how exciting it is to see still photography and motion photography blending. I'm cautiously optimistic.

(I don't know if I'm doing this correctly. This is my first time posting here.)

 

[WhoaGreen]

Just for the record this is my guess:
My guess is Canon is going to release a hybrid video/photo camera (or at least video priority) or high resolution cinema quality camera that uses an EF mount, BUT at the same time they're going to announce a new EF mount series. One that is targeted towards video, like lenses with power zoom. I bet that USM technology, the motor used in some lenses for AF, could also be added to the zoom; it would be quick, silent and be passive if older cameras don't support it. It would be named like "EF-Z" for its power-Zoom feature and be oriented towards serious videographers and cinematographers. They might also be able to borrow some of the optical fomulas from there video cameras and put it into an EF lens package(though pretty sure highly unlikely because of sensor size differences). This would all also answer the possible rumor about Canon's "photo and video department merge or working together."

If the above did happen I would consider that "historical".

Edit: I just realized that someone else had said something similar earlier on in this thread.

 

[Meh]

Just for the record this is my guess:
My guess is Canon is going to release a hybrid video/photo camera (or at least video priority) or high resolution cinema quality camera that uses an EF mount, BUT at the same time they're going to announce a new EF mount series. One that is targeted towards video, like lenses with power zoom. I bet that USM technology, the motor used in some lenses for AF, could also be added to the zoom; it would be quick, silent and be passive if older cameras don't support it. It would be named like "EF-Z" for its power-Zoom feature and be oriented towards serious videographers and cinematographers. They might also be able to borrow some of the optical fomulas from there video cameras and put it into an EF lens package(though pretty sure highly unlikely because of sensor size differences). This would all also answer the possible rumor about Canon's "photo and video department merge or working together."

If the above did happen I would consider that "historical".

Edit: I just realized that someone else had said something similar earlier on in this thread.

Not sure, but I believe that the optical elements that move during zooming are larger, heavier, move further, and move in more complex ways than do the focusing elements. If so, the very small and fast moving USM mechanisms might not be effective for moving the zooming elements in a large lens nor would zooming need to be done so quickly. Power zooming just wouldn't need USM type designs. Someone else may have better info.