A7r Arrived - Meeting New Buddies

[JohnDizzo15]

Finally decided to scratch the curiosity itch the other day and ordered the A7r and it arrived today along with EF adapter.

Intial impressions after their first two hours together....unimpressed.

Yes, I know it's only been two hours. I can assure you though, the introduction of the 5D3 and 6D to the family was much more joyous right from the outset.

Will stick with this thing for a couple weeks and see what happens. More to come...

 

[CaiLeDao]

Yes I did the same thing.

Found the vibration from the shutter to be quite excessive and I could get sharp pictures with a 70-200 F4 non IS much past 120mm. Maybe IS would compensate. Also I could't use it with a remote trigger such as a promote control which I use a lot.

I then bricked it failing to load a firmware upgrade, don't know why, I was following the instructions, this meant it had to go back to Sony.

Liked the images on wider lenses but concluded they were not massively better than the Canon shot 5D Mark III images and I really wanted to use it for gigapans on an Epic Pro which there where quite a few barriers against. It was a great experience and I do have an Sony RX100 which I have had for some time and like. I just couldn't get a shutter release cable professionally made and it bounced on the epic pro a fair bit. Other owners (on the web) seemed to be using two tripods for longer lenses but that wan't practical for my needs.

The saga reminded how good dslr's are and the ease at which they do some things such as focus, not vibrate too much and connect to other devices and triggers, so maybe the size is important. The Sony A7R was returned or perhaps more correctly I left it with Sony.

Looking forward to the next generation of Canon bodies having my refund to spend.

Enjoy and look forward to hearing your conclusion.

 

[Dylan777]

Hope everything will go well for you John

I tried the adapter with Canon L lenses...it feels :-\

 

[strykapose]

Hello John,
Can you explain why you are un-impressed?
I'm curious because my shooting buddy uses a Nikon D800E and when we compare our similar shots (5D2/5D3), it's like night and day (even though I have to tweak the Nikon's colors a bit more). I'm kinda convinced to go with the D810 but I own too much Canon glass. I've considered the A7R and now with the Metabones Mk4 due out, I'm considering the Sony even more. I just want some honest opinions from a Canon shooter.
Thanks

 

[JohnDizzo15]

CaiLeDao - Sorry to hear it didn't work out and thanks for sharing your experience.

My hope was that this would be a good piece to round out my needs as I already have a 6D and Fuji X100s (both of which have/continue to serve me well). All I was really hoping for was something to give me just a little more IQ and great manual focusing ability as I have a few TSE lenses and a slew of other legacy glass.

Initial feelings/findings:

-AF is as slow as others have said that it is. Completely unusable/reliable. Expected this.
-Battery life is as atrocious or worse than others have stated.
-You cannot set the minimum shutter speed when shooting in AV (not a complete deal breaker or something I couldn't do without, but dumb that it is not there). I use this a lot when I'm in a situation with changing/varying light.
-IQ is not noticeably better than my other rigs as some would have you believe.
-The DR madness has yet to make a difference in any of my first 100 shots. I did however deliberately under and over expose a few shots to see how flexible the files would be in post (they were very clean and resolved a lot of detail). This however doesn't really translate into better photos as it was only a real tangible benefit when I deliberately used the wrong exposure for my shots. Time will tell if I actually enjoy having the extra DR as much as I hoped.
-Read somewhere that the menu system was not great. I thought it was good enough as far as camera menus go.

Just some initial thoughts. Will post more as I find more.

PS hope that helps a little bit, strykapose.

 

[JohnDizzo15]

Hope everything will go well for you John

I tried the adapter with Canon L lenses...it feels :-\

That is the exact feeling that I had/have with it. LOL. Although, I pretty much expected to be underwhelmed with the feel ergonomically. Was hoping that the IQ would compensate for that initial feeling. It has not.

Thanks for the well wishing, I certainly hope it works out also as I hate having to return stuff (in this case, from multiple vendors).

 

[JohnDizzo15]

Focus peaking is pretty good. Magnify/focus assist works well after reassigning the button to activate it. Although I wish the implementation in the viewfinder was more like the xt1 from Fuji with the PIP and zoom window staying in view at all times as opposed to closing up and going back to normal view when you touch the shutter button.

All in all, the manual focus aids have made using the TSE lenses much easier.

AF lens testing so far:

85II - I went into it thinking that manual focusing with it would be horrible since it uses a focus by wire mechanism. Surprisingly enough, it was very responsive and fast to shift focus manually. Still wish AF was usable though. IQ is pretty good, but not noticeably better than using it on the 6D.

24-70II - IQ is okay. Corners are not great at any focal length esp at 24mm. AF also unusable on this one.

135 - Much the same here. IQ is good. Corners not great. AF unusable.

35/2 IS - Same stuff. One thing to note though is that IS definitely is working.

TSE lenses - Both are very easy to focus with the aids but IQ is still nothing to write home about.

Will test a few more when I get home. Interested to see how the Sigma 35 Art will perform.

I am aware that a lot of the corner sharpness issues are caused by the presence of the adapter. But even in the center, I am not noticing that the files leave me with any amount of "wow" factor.

Resolution bump is definitely noticeable when zooming in to look at little hairs or fibers. LOL. Otherwise, it is slowing my pc down more than I'm comfortable with just to pump out a few files. I've learned from using the x100s that I don't actually need anymore than 16 megapixels for my purposes. Although I could definitely see how some might benefit from the added resolution. I would probably place more significance on the extra pixels if I more regularly shot landscape.

 

[JohnDizzo15]

Wifi is a bit clunky. Didn't expect a whole lot though since I've used a few other bodies with wifi features prior that were all the same way.

One thing I do like about the wireless file transfer feature though is that you are able to select which size file you want to send to your device. Let's you choose between original file size, 2mb, or VGA. None of the other wifi enabled bodies I've used previously had this offering. Not a huge deal, but definitely a nice touch.

 

[Dylan777]

Hope everything will go well for you John

I tried the adapter with Canon L lenses...it feels :-\

That is the exact feeling that I had/have with it. LOL. Although, I pretty much expected to be underwhelmed with the feel ergonomically. Was hoping that the IQ would compensate for that initial feeling. It has not.

Thanks for the well wishing, I certainly hope it works out also as I hate having to return stuff (in this case, from multiple vendors).

If the plan works and you decide to keep it, I highly recommend the Sony grip. It does help with larger L lenses.

If you REALLY-REALLY like a7r, then, their A-mount to e-mount adapter works BEST with their a-mount lenses - AF is very good. Just more $$$ to spend ;D

I spent quite a bit of $$$ renting most of A-mount prime and zoom lenses, to test with my a7r series. Their A-mount primes are REALLY good. 135mm A-mount + adapter work extremely well with a7r for portrait works. Hint: DETAILS

 

[Sunnystate]

Don't rush with your decisions and final verdict.
It took me some time to learn what I can get and how to use it to my satisfaction.
In my mind this is a poor man medium format camera for the moment, and I treat it like that.
Barely ever use Autofocus shooting super wide angle Canon lenses hyperfocus most of the time, which turns the SONY A7r in to fastest focusing camera in the industry ;-)
All the rewards come when I can push the envelope manipulating levels, lifting shadows, adjusting colors to my wildest desires without getting disgusting colorful vegetable soup like blotches and bandings in all colors (mainly red and purple) not only in the shadows
I wont mention more obvious benefits like DR and resolution.
All boils down to what you need and what is useful for your type of photography.
Good Luck!

 

[SiliconVoid]

Really curious why you expected/anticipated "IQ" to be better, better than say the 6D you already own...??

Megapixels do not have crap to do with IQ, and it does not make a hoot of a difference whether you have 1 or 2 more stops of DR because they are in the shadows anyway, so unless you intend on 'removing' the shadows in all your shots the additional DR is not even visible. Your 6D has better DR at the upper end, which is what typically gets clipped by most all Sony sensors, and that is where Canon already gives you a DR edge in addition to exposing shadows about one stop better than Nikony from the getgo...

Not trying to bash people or devices on the bases of MP envy, but unless you are needing to print base ISO images at large sizes, there is no advantage to pumping out 36mp files... that is certainly debated by many people, but it is the reality.

As for the mechanics of the device, well you mentioned not anticipating much there, so the lack of any 'real' system lenses from Sony is, and continues, to be its major failing.

 

[JohnDizzo15]

@Sunnystate - I am definitely going to give it some time so that I can get better acquainted. Don't want to not give it it's fair shake.

SiliconVoid -I expected it because there is a ton of data on the interwebs touting how awesome it is compared to anything Canon has to offer. While I realize a lot of it was hype, I still expected to see a little more.

I am fully aware that MP isn't indicative of IQ and agree with your point about DR which I have previously stated.

But one of my hopes was that I would still be getting a little something more out of these files than I currently am.

 

[JohnDizzo15]

On another note, I tested out a couple more lenses last night to include the Sigma 35 Art, and a Conurus modded Zeiss 50/1.4. Both provided much of the same results as the other AFing lenses. Completely useless. I will say though that the IQ with the Sigma 35 mounted was rather good.

Another thing I have realized is that the look of the files at anything above ISO 1600 has a look that I do not really care for. Can't quite put my finger on it yet. But I definitely do not like the way skin and a few other things are rendered. Even at ISO 800, I already wanted to put it down and reach for any of my other rigs.

 

[drjlo]

-IQ is not noticeably better than my other rigs as some would have you believe.
-The DR madness has yet to make a difference in any of my first 100 shots. I did however deliberately under and over expose a few shots to see how flexible the files would be in post (they were very clean and resolved a lot of detail). This however doesn't really translate into better photos as it was only a real tangible benefit when I deliberately used the wrong exposure for my shots. Time will tell if I actually enjoy having the extra DR as much as I hoped.

Yup, these are things one cannot convince oneself without first-hand experience.

I, too, remember taking an underexposed shot from A7R, pushing the shadows up more than I ever do, feeling impressed and giddy. However, this was totally useless in my normal shooting with competent exposure. Same thing with 36 MP resolution; it's neat to zoom into little hairs and such, but it didn't improve my photography at all.

 

[JohnDizzo15]

-IQ is not noticeably better than my other rigs as some would have you believe.
-The DR madness has yet to make a difference in any of my first 100 shots. I did however deliberately under and over expose a few shots to see how flexible the files would be in post (they were very clean and resolved a lot of detail). This however doesn't really translate into better photos as it was only a real tangible benefit when I deliberately used the wrong exposure for my shots. Time will tell if I actually enjoy having the extra DR as much as I hoped.

Yup, these are things one cannot convince oneself without first-hand experience.

I, too, remember taking an underexposed shot from A7R, pushing the shadows up more than I ever do, feeling impressed and giddy. However, this was totally useless in my normal shooting with competent exposure. Same thing with 36 MP resolution; it's neat to zoom into little hairs and such, but it didn't improve my photography at all.

I definitely had to learn this the hard way even though it was something I fully suspected prior to ordering. Lol.

Anyhow, based on my very brief experiences so far, I'm finding that the only thing I really enjoy about this thing is the manual focus aids. Quite honestly, I wonder how much more I would like the xt1 if it were possible to mount EF lenses and maintain aperture control.

 

[drjlo]

I definitely had to learn this the hard way even though it was something I fully suspected prior to ordering. Lol.

Anyhow, based on my very brief experiences so far, I'm finding that the only thing I really enjoy about this thing is the manual focus aids. Quite honestly, I wonder how much more I would like the xt1 if it were possible to mount EF lenses and maintain aperture control.

Funny thing is as soon as I returned my A7R, I installed Magic Lantern for the first time on my 5D III, including the manual focus aids. I don't understand why Canon doesn't provide focus peaking, etc, in stock firmware

Looking back, what I really enjoyed about my Sony experience was the FE 55mm f/1.8 lens. Oh, that was a sweet lens; Wish Canon had a 50 mm at that price with comparable color, contrast, sharpness, bokeh, and AF accuracy. Its compact size was fantastic, too, but I guess Canon's version cannot be as small due to the mirror box :'(

 

[JohnDizzo15]

I definitely had to learn this the hard way even though it was something I fully suspected prior to ordering. Lol.

Anyhow, based on my very brief experiences so far, I'm finding that the only thing I really enjoy about this thing is the manual focus aids. Quite honestly, I wonder how much more I would like the xt1 if it were possible to mount EF lenses and maintain aperture control.

Funny thing is as soon as I returned my A7R, I installed Magic Lantern for the first time on my 5D III, including the manual focus aids. I don't understand why Canon doesn't provide focus peaking, etc, in stock firmware

Looking back, what I really enjoyed about my Sony experience was the FE 55mm f/1.8 lens. Oh, that was a sweet lens; Wish Canon had a 50 mm at that price with comparable color, contrast, sharpness, bokeh, and AF accuracy. Its compact size was fantastic, too, but I guess Canon's version cannot be as small due to the mirror box :'(

Absolutely agree with wondering why Canon hasn't implemented it. I had ML installed on my 5D3 and EOS M and loved it for what it was. However, the implementation of the focus aids through ML still aren't as slick or refined as my experience now with the A7r.

If Canon ever incorporates a hybrid VF, I would be 100% on board. I don't care for the sluggishness of shooting in Live View with the rear LCD. After owning and using several mirrorless bodies now, I am absolutely certain that I want the option of being able to use live view in a view finder and have it be as responsive as the mirrorless bodies I've experienced thus far.

So the 55/1.8 was that good eh? I told myself I would not be buying into the Sony as a system. But I almost feel like I'm not giving it a fair shake without trying at least one native lens. LOL

 

[JohnDizzo15]

Received the Zeiss 55/1.8 about a week ago. Been running it through it's paces.

IQ is pretty darn good when it hits. AF is still slower than I would've hoped. Accuracy is good enough when it is fast enough to catch what I'm shooting. Still getting a decent amount of misses.

Re the size of the a7r + 55, I have found that it is not much of a size/weight advantage for me. Much like I thought prior to getting the combo, if you're going to go small/light, go all the way. The sony combo is somewhere in between. With the 55 mounted, the dimensions do not leave me thinking, "wow, this is so much easier to lug around than my 6D." I had an old nifty fifty around and I decided to do a side by side comparison of size. The Sony rig actually protrudes significantly further due to lens length. So going almost like for like with lenses, the A7r really doesn't provide a size advantage at all depending on what you're doing. It is lighter, but not to the point where I don't notice it. The only camera I have that accomplishes that is the x100s.

Also mounted some other lenses and found that performance was quite poor.
100L - exhibits some wacky behavior with regard to max aperture, AF is poo poo, overall poor user experience

Sigma 35 Art - AF is unuseable as expected, IQ is very good.

135L - Same experience as the Sigma and others

TSE 45 and 90 - Used both for slow shutter work over the weekend and got some odd flaring and artifacts. Will have to inspect the adapter and perhaps line the inside to reduce reflections. IQ is better than when they are mounted on my Canon bodies (as expected) minus the artifacts.

On another note, I am still finding that I have to shoot at much faster shutter speeds than I normally would with my other rigs in order to rid camera shake. I thought that maybe some of my initial shutter speed issues were due to having an adapter present which allowed for more slop/vibration. However, now mounting the FE 55/1.8, I am still finding that I have to shoot at 2:1 ratio for speed:focal length which is basically double what I'm normally capable of shooting at.

All in all, the keepers I'm getting are still great and I'm pretty sure it is good enough to stay in the bag......for now.

More to come.

Overall, I am still content with

 

[JohnDizzo15]

Cropped shot of SD.

 

[Dylan777]

Received the Zeiss 55/1.8 about a week ago. Been running it through it's paces.

IQ is pretty darn good when it hits. AF is still slower than I would've hoped. Accuracy is good enough when it is fast enough to catch what I'm shooting. Still getting a decent amount of misses.

Re the size of the a7r + 55, I have found that it is not much of a size/weight advantage for me. Much like I thought prior to getting the combo, if you're going to go small/light, go all the way. The sony combo is somewhere in between. With the 55 mounted, the dimensions do not leave me thinking, "wow, this is so much easier to lug around than my 6D." I had an old nifty fifty around and I decided to do a side by side comparison of size. The Sony rig actually protrudes significantly further due to lens length. So going almost like for like with lenses, the A7r really doesn't provide a size advantage at all depending on what you're doing. It is lighter, but not to the point where I don't notice it. The only camera I have that accomplishes that is the x100s.

Also mounted some other lenses and found that performance was quite poor.
100L - exhibits some wacky behavior with regard to max aperture, AF is poo poo, overall poor user experience

Sigma 35 Art - AF is unuseable as expected, IQ is very good.

135L - Same experience as the Sigma and others

TSE 45 and 90 - Used both for slow shutter work over the weekend and got some odd flaring and artifacts. Will have to inspect the adapter and perhaps line the inside to reduce reflections. IQ is better than when they are mounted on my Canon bodies (as expected) minus the artifacts.

On another note, I am still finding that I have to shoot at much faster shutter speeds than I normally would with my other rigs in order to rid camera shake. I thought that maybe some of my initial shutter speed issues were due to having an adapter present which allowed for more slop/vibration. However, now mounting the FE 55/1.8, I am still finding that I have to shoot at 2:1 ratio for speed:focal length which is basically double what I'm normally capable of shooting at.

All in all, the keepers I'm getting are still great and I'm pretty sure it is good enough to stay in the bag......for now.

More to come.

Overall, I am still content with

I'll keep my Zeiss FE 55 and sell a7r next week. PP 36MP raw is not fun. I'll pick up the a7s when the price is right.