Advice on low light indoor sports photo's
- Thread starter thearsenal
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The 6D AWB can sometimes be a bit off, especially in that weird auditorium light.
1/160, f/4, ISO 6400, 70-200 f/4L USM
A quick dropper fix.
For Judo, the 6D would probably be fine, but for football/basketball, etc. not so much. I think the 5d3 or 7D and a nice prime/2.8 zoom would suit you nicely.
1/160, f/4, ISO 6400, 70-200 f/4L USM
A quick dropper fix.
For Judo, the 6D would probably be fine, but for football/basketball, etc. not so much. I think the 5d3 or 7D and a nice prime/2.8 zoom would suit you nicely.
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captainkanji said:The 6D AWB can sometimes be a bit off, especially in that weird auditorium light.
1/160, f/4, ISO 6400, 70-200 f/4L USM
A quick dropper fix.
For Judo, the 6D would probably be fine, but for football/basketball, etc. not so much. I think the 5d3 or 7D and a nice prime/2.8 zoom would suit you nicely.
It isn't the camera, it is the lights. At 1/160th second you are beating the light pulses. Select an appropriate WB value and keep exposure to 1/60 max and the exposure encompasses a complete light pulse. Easy for your shot, not so easy with indoor sports.
http://www.guyrhodes.com/photo/flicker_lapse.gif
http://www.guyrhodes.com/photo/wb_experiment_large.jpg
http://www.sportsshooter.com/guyrhodes/wbtests/pages/3.html
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privatebydesign said:captainkanji said:The 6D AWB can sometimes be a bit off, especially in that weird auditorium light.
1/160, f/4, ISO 6400, 70-200 f/4L USM
A quick dropper fix.
For Judo, the 6D would probably be fine, but for football/basketball, etc. not so much. I think the 5d3 or 7D and a nice prime/2.8 zoom would suit you nicely.
It isn't the camera, it is the lights. At 1/160th second you are beating the light pulses. Select an appropriate WB value and keep exposure to 1/60 max and the exposure encompasses a complete light pulse. Easy for your shot, not so easy with indoor sports.
http://www.guyrhodes.com/photo/flicker_lapse.gif
http://www.guyrhodes.com/photo/wb_experiment_large.jpg
http://www.sportsshooter.com/guyrhodes/wbtests/pages/3.html
interesting. I guess my shoot a cup at the beginning and then just use that wb is full of crap. Damn it.
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Herewith the original image:
and these were the settings:
Maybe, I could have chosen a lower ISO value but that would lower the shutter speed and I would risk having motion blur.
and these were the settings:
Maybe, I could have chosen a lower ISO value but that would lower the shutter speed and I would risk having motion blur.
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Taking the white balance from the door isn't probably a good idea. The doors aren't white compared to the kimono on the chair behind the referee or the piece of paper above the spectators on the left.
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AlanK said:
Yes....it's common. I'll shoot a 20 something frame burst in a indoor sport venue like this with the 1dx and get some odd white balance fluctuations within the burst group. Lucky for us that our editing tools are so good now days. WB is a relatively easy fix.
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thearsenal said:Herewith the original image:
and these were the settings:
Maybe, I could have chosen a lower ISO value but that would lower the shutter speed and I would risk having motion blur.
Arsenal....your settings are pretty good IMO...you can't go lower than 1/400....1/500 is my personal bare min for action sports, so the ISO going higher is your only choice. RAW is helpful in this situation though when editing.
Someone mentioned black and white...it does help in this situation. I also cropped and and did a minor edit on your image....3 minutes on my iPad. For sports I love a wider image crop...personal opinion.
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27mm ... I'd say use a longer focal length, which will mean less cropping and more opportunity for decent pixels to absorb the noise pixels. (And, yeah, reflexes that will put a cat to shame sure helps!)
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here are my suggestions:
I have 7 bodies including a 50D , 1DM3, 1DX and 5DM3 etc.
If money does not play a role - my suggestion of course would be a 1DX
The 50D is better in terms of ISO noise than the 60D. (my reason for not upgrading to the 60D)
The 70D jpeg images have been reported to be better but the raws most probably will not. The sensor size is the same compared to the 50D but the resolution is way higher (20MPixel over 15 - there is almost no chance that ISO noise is way better on the 70D compared with a 50D for that reason alone)
1) depending on what you do with the resulting images (do you need very large prints?) - consider a camera that was made for things like indoor sports - like a used 1DMark III. It only has 10MPixel on a larger sensor compared to 15 MPixel on a smaller sensor compared to the 50D - this allows for ISO3200 with much better results in terms of noise. In additon the camera is faster and would help with sports that requires a better burst rate - Judo is not such an issue i think in that regard. I usually shoot handball, basketball etc. and need faster speed than your 1/400s from the sample you have posted.
Such a camera also has dual card slots and allows for recording RAW on one card and jpeg on a second card (in case you have no time for post production and need to deliver the jpegs immediately after the game)
2) use a grey card or things like the color passport and set the WB accordingly (custom set) in order to see right on your display what the images looks like but always shoot raw and use Lightroom to adjust the WB by using a picture with a grey card or color passport during post processing. As said, if you record both RAW and JPEG (on one card or dual card setting) - the jpegs would look correct in terms of WB.
3) things like color reflections (red skin) can be changed in Lightroom by using the adjustment brush just for areas that you like to correct (the face for example). No need to start PS nowadays for these little tweeks.
4) Noise reduction - the Lightroom Noise Reduction is good enough to start with - use 100% view and use the color noise reduction / details sliders in post production. Also, if you export to JPG from within Lightroom - enable sharpening - especially if you resize the image during the export. It also applies some noise reduction automatically during export. (this only works again in LR5.2 - LR5.0/5.1 did not work if you resize during export and left you with unsharpened jpegs)
5) flash - almost never an option since it is not allowed and is annoying for the players/fighters
6) forgot: i had the 24-70 Version I and it was never the sharpest lens. I own a 85 f1.8 and it's very sharp compared to the 24-70 and of course you could use f2 and have one stop more or you use f2.8 at a better quality. The lens is a good one for indoor sport.
I have 7 bodies including a 50D , 1DM3, 1DX and 5DM3 etc.
If money does not play a role - my suggestion of course would be a 1DX
The 50D is better in terms of ISO noise than the 60D. (my reason for not upgrading to the 60D)
The 70D jpeg images have been reported to be better but the raws most probably will not. The sensor size is the same compared to the 50D but the resolution is way higher (20MPixel over 15 - there is almost no chance that ISO noise is way better on the 70D compared with a 50D for that reason alone)
1) depending on what you do with the resulting images (do you need very large prints?) - consider a camera that was made for things like indoor sports - like a used 1DMark III. It only has 10MPixel on a larger sensor compared to 15 MPixel on a smaller sensor compared to the 50D - this allows for ISO3200 with much better results in terms of noise. In additon the camera is faster and would help with sports that requires a better burst rate - Judo is not such an issue i think in that regard. I usually shoot handball, basketball etc. and need faster speed than your 1/400s from the sample you have posted.
Such a camera also has dual card slots and allows for recording RAW on one card and jpeg on a second card (in case you have no time for post production and need to deliver the jpegs immediately after the game)
2) use a grey card or things like the color passport and set the WB accordingly (custom set) in order to see right on your display what the images looks like but always shoot raw and use Lightroom to adjust the WB by using a picture with a grey card or color passport during post processing. As said, if you record both RAW and JPEG (on one card or dual card setting) - the jpegs would look correct in terms of WB.
3) things like color reflections (red skin) can be changed in Lightroom by using the adjustment brush just for areas that you like to correct (the face for example). No need to start PS nowadays for these little tweeks.
4) Noise reduction - the Lightroom Noise Reduction is good enough to start with - use 100% view and use the color noise reduction / details sliders in post production. Also, if you export to JPG from within Lightroom - enable sharpening - especially if you resize the image during the export. It also applies some noise reduction automatically during export. (this only works again in LR5.2 - LR5.0/5.1 did not work if you resize during export and left you with unsharpened jpegs)
5) flash - almost never an option since it is not allowed and is annoying for the players/fighters
6) forgot: i had the 24-70 Version I and it was never the sharpest lens. I own a 85 f1.8 and it's very sharp compared to the 24-70 and of course you could use f2 and have one stop more or you use f2.8 at a better quality. The lens is a good one for indoor sport.
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ykn123 says it right, I second that!
When I do indoor shootings of Judo, Aikido, Tai Chi or Dancing I often use my 7D with the EF 85 f/1.8.
I shoot RAW and do the white balance in Lightroom, works great with a grey card, worked also with a grey element near the athletes
Example
7D | 1/500sec | f/2.0 | EF 85 mm ISO 125
Barbara Bandel | -70kg by Ingo Kwiat, on Flickr
The nifty fifty f/1.4 does it, too - just sometimes the AF USM isn't fast enough
Aikido | Keiko-Dojo Niederrhein by Ingo Kwiat, on Flickr
The 24-105 f/4 works, but is not the best recommendation for indoor sports
Ole Bischof | IPPON! by Ingo Kwiat, on Flickr
Regarding high ISO... the 7D can go up to 6400 and Lightroom 5 can help to smooth even these high settings,
if a 1DX does not fit into the budget - have you thought about getting a used 7D?
When I do indoor shootings of Judo, Aikido, Tai Chi or Dancing I often use my 7D with the EF 85 f/1.8.
I shoot RAW and do the white balance in Lightroom, works great with a grey card, worked also with a grey element near the athletes
Example
7D | 1/500sec | f/2.0 | EF 85 mm ISO 125
Barbara Bandel | -70kg by Ingo Kwiat, on Flickr
The nifty fifty f/1.4 does it, too - just sometimes the AF USM isn't fast enough
Aikido | Keiko-Dojo Niederrhein by Ingo Kwiat, on Flickr
The 24-105 f/4 works, but is not the best recommendation for indoor sports
Ole Bischof | IPPON! by Ingo Kwiat, on Flickr
Regarding high ISO... the 7D can go up to 6400 and Lightroom 5 can help to smooth even these high settings,
if a 1DX does not fit into the budget - have you thought about getting a used 7D?
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