After the EOS R3, Canon will introduce new “affordable” RF mount cameras [CR1]

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
4,722
2,655
Not sure that is correct. I am also assuming that you mean the western Pacific rim as the US west coast is also on the Pacific Ocean.
English is the second language of most non-english speakers globally as well as the pacific rim (taking out mandarin vs local dialects). I have lived and worked in Asia/Australia for decades in corporate roles and communicating in English is normal. Noting I am not saying fluent/native level English though.
They may not participate in English language forums such as canon rumors though.

You are correct that many in that part of the world are functional in conversational English, though your perception may or may not be skewed if a larger percentage of the folks there who deal with international visitors are functional in English than the overall population. But even those folks don't show up much on the English language photography gearheads forums, do they?
 
Upvote 0

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
4,722
2,655
The 7D series were a unicorn from a marketing perspective. Relatively cheap, weather sealed, dual cards, borrowed AF system from the 1D series. Today this is the R6 in full frame although the 7D probably had better weather sealing. They should have been priced at the 5D level based on the cheaper ASP-C sized sensor but more expensive AF system than a 5D.
That great value (and extra reach/pixel density) was very attractive

The 7D series never had a better AF system than the then current 5-Series camera. Both the 7D and the 5D Mark II were equally inconsistent from shot-to-shot. Just ask Roger Cicala.

1623746912350.png
The first generation of the 7D had a horrible 19-point AF system! It was nothing like the 1D Mark IV AF system. It was nicely configurable, so it "felt" pro-level when you were using it. But it was also notoriously inconsistent from shot to shot in burst mode when tracking moving subjects. When you sat down and actually started culling images, you were almost always disappointed that the shot that caught the peak action was always slightly front or rear focused. Out of ten frames in a high speed burst, you would have one, two, or three that were perfectly on target, five, six, or seven that were just slightly off (equally distributed between front and rear focused) and one or two that were totally out of focus.

When the 7D mark II came out in 2014 with a near 1-Series level AF system, the 5D Mark III of 2012 already had a 1-Series level AF system. The PDAF array hardware was the same part number for the 1D X and the 5D Mark II. Ditto for the 1D X Mark II and the 5D Mark IV in 2016. The differences between the 1-Series and 5-Series in terms of AF performance at that point were in software/firmware.
 
Upvote 0
Jun 29, 2016
404
313
Hi everyone, question: A friend of mine got the R6 and he wanted to sell his EF-S lens (a good one by all means), before he did so I asked him to test a thing, he put the camera on "crop sensor) and all of a sudden the FF sensor became APS-C sensor and.. So all Canon need to do is to have RP mark2 which will be affordable, so why there is a need for APS-C sensor at all?
 
Upvote 0
Sep 20, 2020
3,066
2,395
Both Canon and Nikon introduced autofocus lenses in the late 1980s, and Canon became the ILC market leader in 2004. So, who led the market in the 'decade or two' after the introduction of Nikon's sucky autofocus? Gosh, it was Nikon. #factsbeatopinions
It is before my time but people tell me that Nikon had the better autofocus back then,
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0
Sep 20, 2020
3,066
2,395
Hi everyone, question: A friend of mine got the R6 and he wanted to sell his EF-S lens (a good one by all means), before he did so I asked him to test a thing, he put the camera on "crop sensor) and all of a sudden the FF sensor became APS-C sensor and.. So all Canon need to do is to have RP mark2 which will be affordable, so why there is a need for APS-C sensor at all?
The RP is twice as expensive as the cheapest Canon mirrorless APS-C camera and that is kind of an unnecessary hassle.
Part of the appeal of Canon is that these cameras are easy for beginners to use.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0
Jul 21, 2010
31,094
12,857
How hard is it to understand that the incompatibility between the EOS M/EF-M system and the EOS R /RF system is intentional?

Canon decided they wanted it that way. Period. End of Story.

Look at Canon's history for the past several decades. Every major decision they've made of such importance has been carefully calculated and, in the long run, turned out to be the one that maximized their rate of return on investment.
Some people seem to believe that any decision which differs from the one they would have made must have been either misguided or not thought out at all. That same type of person seems to have such an incontrovertible belief in their own innate rightness that they are unable to admit when they’re wrong. So the answer to your question, “How hard is it to understand?,” is most likely that it’s impossible. #hubris
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Upvote 0
How hard is it to understand that the incompatibility between the EOS M/EF-M system and the EOS R /RF system is intentional?

Canon decided they wanted it that way. Period. End of Story.

Look at Canon's history for the past several decades. Every major decision they've made of such importance has been carefully calculated and, in the long run, turned out to be the one that maximized their rate of return on investment.

Buying a popcorn and preparing a chair to watch you explain the demise of an EOS-M system, once Canon announces those rumoured 3 APS-C RF bodies :)
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0
Jun 29, 2016
404
313
The RP is twice as expensive as the cheapest Canon mirrorless APS-C camera and that is kind of an unnecessary hassle.
Part of the appeal of Canon is that these cameras are easy for beginners to use.
The RP is 999$ now in Amazon, which was the price of the Rebel when its digital version just came up. Therefore I suspect that time, the RP price will slowly drop, as the rebel line did. So not long into the future, the RP price will be about 500$ which is a nice price for entry level camera.
 
Upvote 0

SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
2,678
2,592
Ok. They live on the western half of the pacific Rim (which is in the Eastern Hemisphere, unlike the Eastern Pacific Rim, which is in the Western Hemisphere).
Yeah one of those at-first-it-looks-like-a-paradox type things where the WEST Pacific is near China, which we reflexively regard as "east."
 
Upvote 0
There are still a lot more camera buyers worldwide that fit the EOS M profile than there are gearheads like those of us here on Canon Rumors. North America and Western Europe have a lot more potential customers with large discretionary income compared to the rest of the world.

Canon will continue to sell EOS M cameras to those buyers as long as they keep buying enough of them for Canon to make a profit on the R&D they have already spent to develop the EOS M system. A few new models to keep interest up will allow them to sell already existing lenses for a few more years until smartphones, even the more affordable models that those in the non-affluent parts of the world tend to use, eventually eliminates that market.

EOS-M is done, no matter how much reasoning you come up with. And if you can't get the idea of what will inevitably happen in the Canon land sooner or later, then here's a bit of an inspiration from a competing camp:

 
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0

Dragon

EF 800L f/5.6, RF 800 f/11
May 29, 2019
1,223
1,719
Oregon
Amazon is where non-gearheads buy cameras. Just because a camera is in the top 10 on amazon in the U.S. does not always mean it is in the top ten among all cameras sold in the U.S. But even if it is (and it may well be), the fact that it is in the top 10 cameras in the U.S. does not eliminate the possibility that in Eastern Asia it sells far more units as the #1 selling camera in that part of the world.
Actually, I said it was regularly in the top ten several times (as is in #2, #5, and #8 in different package configurations). My sense is that it is, and has been for some time the actual #1 seller on Amazon. BTW, for folks who don't live in cities with handy camera stores (about 75% of the population) Amazon and places like B&H are the only choices for both gearheads and non-gearheads.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0
You are correct that many in that part of the world are functional in conversational English, though your perception may or may not be skewed if a larger percentage of the folks there who deal with international visitors are functional in English than the overall population. But even those folks don't show up much on the English language photography gearheads forums, do they?
Not sure if you read my post but my final sentence was "They may not participate in English language forums such as canon rumors though."
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Upvote 0
The 7D series never had a better AF system than the then current 5-Series camera. Both the 7D and the 5D Mark II were equally inconsistent from shot-to-shot. Just ask Roger Cicala.

The first generation of the 7D had a horrible 19-point AF system! It was nothing like the 1D Mark IV AF system. It was nicely configurable, so it "felt" pro-level when you were using it. But it was also notoriously inconsistent from shot to shot in burst mode when tracking moving subjects. When you sat down and actually started culling images, you were almost always disappointed that the shot that caught the peak action was always slightly front or rear focused. Out of ten frames in a high speed burst, you would have one, two, or three that were perfectly on target, five, six, or seven that were just slightly off (equally distributed between front and rear focused) and one or two that were totally out of focus.

When the 7D mark II came out in 2014 with a near 1-Series level AF system, the 5D Mark III of 2012 already had a 1-Series level AF system. The PDAF array hardware was the same part number for the 1D X and the 5D Mark II. Ditto for the 1D X Mark II and the 5D Mark IV in 2016. The differences between the 1-Series and 5-Series in terms of AF performance at that point were in software/firmware.
I didn't say that the 7 series had the same AF system as the current 1D series at the time. My recollection... which could be completely incorrect was that the 7 series had the previous 1D's AF system.
At no point did I compare the 7 series AF system to the 5D's AF system.
My point was that the 7D/ii's relatively inexpensive price point had an AF system above what a similarly priced camera body would be. The totality of the 7D's feature were incorrectly priced in a market segment and was popular because of that as well as the "reach" discussions.

With many of your posts, I get the impression that you are missing the point of mine or misreading them and are arguing semantics without actually adding to the conversation. This is an open forum and that is to be expected but needs to be pointed out.
Perhaps you can suggest where a replacement 7Diii with equivalent features would be priced within the RF eco-system.
 
Upvote 0

Peter Bergh

CR Pro
Sep 16, 2020
31
18
Rebel T7 was Canon's best selling model at amazon in the U.S. The world is far larger than the U.S.
You are absolutely right that the US and the world are not the same. But, for luxury products like cameras, you cannot consider population alone; you must also consider purchasing power per person. (Few in, say, Chad can afford a camera.) That consideration makes the US a bit bigger in relation to the rest of the world, but still only a fraction of the entire world.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0
There has been no "revelation" as to the resolution of the R3.

What, you mean that pure speculation on the part of armchair experts on a gossip forum is not a revelation from Canon?

You are posting on a Canon RUMORS forum! Why are you here if you can't stand a few harmless assumptions and product spec deducing?

I think it is pretty safe to assume, based on what Canon has released and what they have not said, that its going to be in the 20-32MP size.

If it had a 45MP sensor in it I'm pretty sure they would say it shoots 8K to get all the fanboys salivating.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0

Ozarker

Love, joy, and peace to all of good will.
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2015
5,933
4,336
The Ozarks
You are posting on a Canon RUMORS forum! Why are you here if you can't stand a few harmless assumptions and product spec deducing?

I think it is pretty safe to assume, based on what Canon has released and what they have not said, that its going to be in the 20-32MP size.

If it had a 45MP sensor in it I'm pretty sure they would say it shoots 8K to get all the fanboys salivating.
When someone says that there has been a "revelation", implies that that is from Canon itself... that isn't deducing or speculating, that's why. Canon has not revealed it. Period. Going from speculating to pretending that something is known and real, is crazy. The only "revelation" you have is from forum speculation. So, there has been no "revelation".

Definition of "revelation" :
1. a surprising and previously unknown fact, especially one that is made known in a dramatic way.
"revelations about his personal life"

Revelation is of FACTS not speculations.

I honestly believe the camera will be 30 mp or more. Me treating my own speculations as facts is lunacy. That's what conspiracy theorists do.

You won't have your "revelation" until Canon announces it. Until then, all we have are rumors. Those are not facts. We have no idea what Canon will do to differentiate the R3 from other models.

Speculation and rumor are perfectly fine. Don't fault others for your insufficient understanding of what a word means. You do know the difference between rumor and FACT, don't you? If you didn't before, I'm glad I could provide you with a revelation of the definition.

Rumor: a currently circulating story or report of uncertain or doubtful truth.

BTW: This rumor is rated as CR1. Lowest possible reliability rating. Far from fact.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Upvote 0

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
4,722
2,655
Buying a popcorn and preparing a chair to watch you explain the demise of an EOS-M system, once Canon announces those rumoured 3 APS-C RF bodies :)

Who said Canon doesn't think phasing out the M system eventually will be a wide business decision?

As I've already said above, eventually the time will come when phones will overtake the market to which the EOS M series is aimed. But that is probably still around four or five years out, particularly for those living in less affluent world areas where the vast majority of the population doesn't have premium phones.

Canon will keep selling current models and lenses as long as folks buy them, at least until production line time can generate more profits making something else.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
4,722
2,655
EOS-M is done, no matter how much reasoning you come up with. And if you can't get the idea of what will inevitably happen in the Canon land sooner or later, then here's a bit of an inspiration from a competing camp:


All camera systems inevitably end.

FD ended. EF will end soon (relatively speaking to its 34 year age). RF will end one day, too.

Just because EOS-M will inevitably end in the future (as I've said above several times, probably in 4-5 years) doesn't mean it is dead today or six months from now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
4,722
2,655
EOS-M is done, no matter how much reasoning you come up with. And if you can't get the idea of what will inevitably happen in the Canon land sooner or later, then here's a bit of an inspiration from a competing camp:


That's aimed at a completely different type of buyer than the M-Series. What part of non-gearhead, non camera and lens collecting GAS afflicted Rumor site dwellers is so hard to understand?


The EOS M system has never been about folks who buy multiple cameras (either at the same time or via constant upgrading) and a lot of lenses (either at the same time or via constant buying and selling).

It's not about you and me or the kinds of folks who populate sites like Canon rumors.

It's about someone who wants a small, light, and affordable dedicated camera that is better than a phone (or a point and shoot when they were still around) with one or two lenses that fit what they like to shoot. They then go out and shoot with it without worrying whether it's the current "best" or not. Maybe it's travel photography. Maybe it's family and friends. Or flowers and gardens. Or butterflies. Or any other countless number of hobbies which is the central focus of the buyer, NOT the tool they use to take pictures of the things they are passionate about.

It's about people living in emerging countries that don't have the luxury of discretionary income to buy $1,000+ camera bodies. Even the few in such countries who would be able to afford such can't find them there because there's no distribution network for higher end cameras and lenses in their part of the world.

It's about folks who will buy a camera and use it for several years without constantly following the industry and obsessing over every new product that comes along.

There are still more of those kind of folks in the world than there are us, even if there aren't as many as there once was before phones began gradually moving upmarket from point-and-shoots to compact non-ILCs. Eventually smartphones will overtake the small, light, and cheap ILC market that the EOS M is aimed at. But they're not quite there yet.

It's not about you or the kinds of folks who populate sites like Canon rumors.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Upvote 0