After the EOS R3, Canon will introduce new “affordable” RF mount cameras [CR1]

[neuroanatomist]

The M50 shows up 4 times in that top 10 list, likely making it the number one seller. A similar pattern shows up in the Amazon best seller list. The M50 is likely the best selling ILC in the world and we keep hearing people say Canon should trash the M line. Amazing how gearheads can get disconnected from reality.

Two are the M50, two are the M50 MkII, but I get your point. The M series is probably still the global best-selling ILC line.

Some people here think their viewpoint is representative of a majority of camera buyers, which is just silly.

 

[bergstrom]

I wonder how you’d meaningfully upgrade the RP ? I guess the obvious thing is fit an up to date sensor. The one in the RP is fine but you have to shoot in the traditional Canon way - don’t unnecessarily underexpose. I guess other upgrades would be frame rate, maybe add more specific eye detect focus.
I bought an RP at a good price and I have to say ergonomically it’s superb for an entry level camera. Still much prefer an OVF though.

Put in the sensor door that was missing in the ROP to cut costs.

 

[No Longer Active]

I know nothing about product development or product strategy but I don’t get an rf aps-c strategy.

They have a perfectly good aps-c system, just make more lenses for that, because you are hardly going to sell 85mm f1.2 lenses to an aps-c buyer….

If down the track said buyer upgrades to full frame they are going to buy new lenses anyway so changing mount won’t really hurt them.

I'm not sure what kinds of subjects you shoot, but I personally tend to shoot at the long to super long tele end for wildlife. For folks like me having an APS-C crop sensor reduces the Field of View giving us a boost on the Equivalent Focal Length (which when one combines what the lens delivers to the sensor and it captures IS the FoV). If one was to blow up the resultant images to the same size the subject will be larger in the frame - that's pretty beaten path stuff. However, the other factor is pixel density. If I was to reduce a FF sensor image to the same FoV as the APS-C one, the number of pixels would be reduced by a factor or about 2.56. So to take the example 45MP output from an R5 FF sensor, cropping it down to the same FoV of an APS-C unit would reduce the pixel count to around17.6Mp - which is not brilliant. Conversely, a 40MP ASP-C sensor (not unreasonable as the 90D had 34MP) would have the same pixel density as 102.4MP FF sensor. So for those of us who DO shoot at the very long end, there is a definite benefit.

Even if Canon came out with a R7 and kept the same lens mount, it would still work well. When the first digital EOS units came out, the EOS D30, D60, and 10D all had that arrangement, it was only from the 20D on that there was an APS-C lens mount. I actually own and still shoot with the first two of those bodies (for the fun and challenge of it) and they work really well with the EF lenses.

The image below is taken with the Canon EOS D30 (3MP) and the EF 17-40 USM, hand-held in available light.
View attachment 198939

 

[Ozarker]

I know nothing about product development or product strategy but I don’t get an rf aps-c strategy.

They have a perfectly good aps-c system, just make more lenses for that, because you are hardly going to sell 85mm f1.2 lenses to an aps-c buyer….

If down the track said buyer upgrades to full frame they are going to buy new lenses anyway so changing mount won’t really hurt them.

Well, that's just not true. Before switching to FF, I went out and bought all the FF "L" lenses I wanted first. Shot them all on a 70D for several months before buying a 5D Mark III. You see, I wasn't sure I wanted FF at the time, but I did want the glass.

The 70D fit my hands ok. An M series camera would not be any fun for me. Far too tiny, and an ergonomic nightmare, for my taste. So, from my perspective, the M is a no-go if I am looking for a crop sensor camera.

I'd have no problem shooting fast high end lenses mounted on an ASP-c body.

 

[unfocused]

...So to take the example 45MP output from an R5 FF sensor, cropping it down to the same FoV of an APS-C unit would reduce the pixel count to around17.6Mp - which is not brilliant...
...The image below is taken with the Canon EOS D30 (3MP) and the EF 17-40 USM, hand-held in available light.
View attachment 198939

I've been shooting a lot with the R5 at 1.6 crop and actually, it is quite brilliant.

It seems kind of ironic that you posted an image from a 3mp sensor and simultaneously seemed to imply that an image from a 17 mp sensor is unusable.

I understand that many people want something closer to the 90D for a crop sensor R body. But, I wouldn't dismiss the versatility of the R5, which gives you a full frame body when you want it and a very nice crop body when you want that. Plus, it is available today.

 

[Flamingtree]

I'm not sure what kinds of subjects you shoot, but I personally tend to shoot at the long to super long tele end for wildlife. For folks like me having an APS-C crop sensor reduces the Field of View giving us a boost on the Equivalent Focal Length (which when one combines what the lens delivers to the sensor and it captures IS the FoV). If one was to blow up the resultant images to the same size the subject will be larger in the frame - that's pretty beaten path stuff. However, the other factor is pixel density. If I was to reduce a FF sensor image to the same FoV as the APS-C one, the number of pixels would be reduced by a factor or about 2.56. So to take the example 45MP output from an R5 FF sensor, cropping it down to the same FoV of an APS-C unit would reduce the pixel count to around17.6Mp - which is not brilliant. Conversely, a 40MP ASP-C sensor (not unreasonable as the 90D had 34MP) would have the same pixel density as 102.4MP FF sensor. So for those of us who DO shoot at the very long end, there is a definite benefit.

Even if Canon came out with a R7 and kept the same lens mount, it would still work well. When the first digital EOS units came out, the EOS D30, D60, and 10D all had that arrangement, it was only from the 20D on that there was an APS-C lens mount. I actually own and still shoot with the first two of those bodies (for the fun and challenge of it) and they work really well with the EF lenses.

The image below is taken with the Canon EOS D30 (3MP) and the EF 17-40 USM, hand-held in available light.
View attachment 198939

I don’t doubt aps-c has its place. I just don’t understand the product strategy in a shrinking market, pushing people to full frame (where the margins are better) makes more sense to me is all.

Doesn’t Nikon have an apsc mirrorless, Z50, I wonder how well it’s selling?

 

[Flamingtree]

Well, that's just not true. Before switching to FF, I went out and bought all the FF "L" lenses I wanted first. Shot them all on a 70D for several months before buying a 5D Mark III. You see, I wasn't sure I wanted FF at the time, but I did want the glass.

The 70D fit my hands ok. An M series camera would not be any fun for me. Far too tiny, and an ergonomic nightmare, for my taste. So, from my perspective, the M is a no-go if I am looking for a crop sensor camera.

I'd have no problem shooting fast high end lenses mounted on an ASP-c body.

I take your point about ergonomics. I’m not sure I would want a small camera as my main camera either. In fact I wish my r5 was bigger. Same size as a 5d4 would be awesome.

anyway, I digress….. I guess my point is that if you had to switch mounts you would still stay with canon wouldn’t you? If you had to buy your 5d3 at the start of your FF journey would that have changed your buying decision?

 

[Ozarker]

I take your point about ergonomics. I’m not sure I would want a small camera as my main camera either. In fact I wish my r5 was bigger. Same size as a 5d4 would be awesome.

anyway, I digress….. I guess my point is that if you had to switch mounts you would still stay with canon wouldn’t you? If you had to buy your 5d3 at the start of your FF journey would that have changed your buying decision?

Yes, I'd still stay with Canon. I have switched mounts. The mount does not affect my decision. Available glass does.

 

[Dragon]

I've been shooting a lot with the R5 at 1.6 crop and actually, it is quite brilliant.

It seems kind of ironic that you posted an image from a 3mp sensor and simultaneously seemed to imply that an image from a 17 mp sensor is unusable.

I understand that many people want something closer to the 90D for a crop sensor R body. But, I wouldn't dismiss the versatility of the R5, which gives you a full frame body when you want it and a very nice crop body when you want that. Plus, it is available today.

Yes, the APS-c mode of the R5 is nice. The 17.25 MP image with the new AA filter has resolution about the same as previous 20 MP APS-c bodies (think 7D2) and it produces a proper APS-c RAW file which keeps the file size down. The APS-c 4k video is also very good. I have a 90D and there are times when the extra pixels are helpful, but the list of lenses that you can see the difference with is pretty short. The feature on the R5 that automatically switches to APS-c mode when you attach an EF-s lens is also pretty cool. This feature set on an 80-100 MP high res body would make the whole APS-c body argument irrelevant other than the issue of price point and given the current market shrinkage, I can see where Canon might skip the APS-c body altogether. The M-line is a whole different bit of kit, given the petite bodies and lenses. My M5 is my portable camera of choice and I would like to see it updated.

 

[No Longer Active]

I've been shooting a lot with the R5 at 1.6 crop and actually, it is quite brilliant.

It seems kind of ironic that you posted an image from a 3mp sensor and simultaneously seemed to imply that an image from a 17 mp sensor is unusable.

I understand that many people want something closer to the 90D for a crop sensor R body. But, I wouldn't dismiss the versatility of the R5, which gives you a full frame body when you want it and a very nice crop body when you want that. Plus, it is available today.

Actually, with respect, I didn't suggest that the output of 17MP was unusable, what I did suggest is that crop sensor bodies have a pixel density benefit, specifically at the long focal lenght end, when one crops a FF sensor to get the same FoV. Another take away from that image is that Canon could continue to use the same R mount and FF lenses and have a crop sensor, as was the case with the earlier EOS MILCs.

My point in showing that image from the D30 was that crop sensors, even with a smaller size can still perform well, depending on the type of subject - this to counter the suggestion that a crop sensor is inherently inferior: however, a huge amount depends on what one is going to do with the resultant image. I would suggest that the image from the D30 would not blow up to a very large size, but is absolutely fine for posting on many websites (that downgrade images anyway), social media and some digital display. On the other hand if one is going to produce large, detailed Fine Art images, then you want a significantly better sensor. In 2000 the D30 was both revolutionary and leading edge (and relatively cheap too, compared to their predecssors and competitors).

 

[neuroanatomist]

Personally, I would like to see a R7, and a replacement for the EOS 5DsR with a very large capacity sensor for landscape and cropping, and without all the video stuff, which I don't use. That may not be your position and that's fine.

Since video became a feature of mainstream ILCs, there has been exactly one that launched without video, and while Nikon’s Df was advertised as ‘pure photography’, in reality it was a pure flop.

So your position is that you wish for a rainbow-farting unicorn and that’s fine.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Attempts at humor often often fail on the internet, my apologies.

Anyone is free to express their desire for a particular feature (or omission thereof), or product. Such desires should be tempered with reality. For example, I may say that I want a 70-400mm f/2 lens with excellent IQ and with the approximate size and weight of my 24-70/2.8. Given that such a desire isn’t realistic, I might reasonably expect the expression of such a desire to be met with some humorous replies.

Also, to be clear, I meant the Df was a commercial/sales flop. Seemed like a perfectly good camera, though.

FWIW, I’ve shot a total of about 3 seconds of video footage on my DSLRs, and that was accidentally on my 1D X while I was fiddling with button customization.

 

[SteveC]

FWIW, I’ve shot a total of about 3 seconds of video footage on my DSLRs, and that was accidentally on my 1D X while I was fiddling with button customization.

You didn't have the "accidental button press prevention mode" enabled on the 13th wrench menu?

 

[JohanCruyff]

Continue reading...

I have been told that after the Canon EOS R3 begins and whenever supply chain issues are corrected, Canon will focus on the lower end of the RF mount lineup.
A replacement for the Canon EOS RP is coming, this will obviously be the new entry-level camera for the RF lineup. Pricing for this camera will be aggressive.

Hey Canon, I sold my M6 and the EF-S / EF-M lenses I owned. I am waiting for a first / second / backup body and I would like to have more options.

 

[Michael Clark]

Hey Canon, I sold my M6 and the EF-S / EF-M lenses I owned. I am waiting for a first / second / backup body and I would like to have more options.

It seems like you may have sold a bit too soon, given the current supply chain shortages of integrated circuits.

 

[Ozarker]

Hey Canon, I sold my M6 and the EF-S / EF-M lenses I owned. I am waiting for a first / second / backup body and I would like to have more options.

You should write Canon if you want Canon to be aware of your predicament.

 

[JohanCruyff]

Hey Canon, I sold my M6 and the EF-S / EF-M lenses I owned. I am waiting for a first / second / backup body and I would like to have more options.

It seems like you may have sold a bit too soon, given the current supply chain shortages of integrated circuits.

You should write Canon if you want Canon to be aware of your predicament.

Never mind, Canon. I ordered a R6, so my second / backup body will be the R.