All is Quiet, but the Good Stuff is Coming

[K]

But it lacks any aspiration, for poor amateurs, looking at the competition.

We can only speculate based on what we see Canon do. And as you can tell from this forum, there's about as many interpretations and theories as there are people.

The way it looks to me, Canon has no interest whatsoever in giving up any kind of professional capability for a penny under the 5D4. Period.

Their omission of features and nerfing of others is very carefully done to target (deter) a specific group of users which are the amateurs and upstart pros.

Canon is pay to play. As in, pay $3,300 as an entry point for FF pro use.

Nikon on the other hand, has an entry point of $1,500 right now.

That's significant. No one in their right mind will think a Canon body is $1,800 better than the Nikon FF.

Nikon doesn't mind that a lower tier camera is used commercially. Canon sees that as a lost sale for a higher up pro body. The assumption here is that the consumer had the cash to go higher, but saved it as their needs were met at a lower price point. Maybe some. But for those who don't have the cash? Guess what, they aren't going to be choosing Canon unless they want to accept a significantly weaker camera capabilities...

Purely anecdotal and only my experience, but Nikon is used like 10:1 ratio against Canon in the entry pro realm. Canon is making big money, it's not on those folks - it's got to be all Rebel soccer dads and big time sports photography. Look at the sidelines of any major event. All 1D series. Most have dual 1D's with big white lenses on there. You'll see like maybe 1 Nikon in a sea of Canon.

These entry level pros, they add up. They are all over the place. Not sure why Canon ignores that market.

 

[Don Haines]

I never saw you petitioning Canon to remove the 2nd card slot from the 1DX or 1DX2...

Hypocrisy.

Sure, I have cards in both slots and write to both (in duplicate). But...I have not ever had a card fail or missed a shot when switching out a card. In other words, my 1D X would be just as viable with one slot.

I have fire insurance, but my house has never burned down.....
I have life insurance, but I am still alive.....
I have 2 slots, and I have had a card fail on me.....

The second slot is insurance....odds are that you will never need it, but if you ever do it is great to have.... when you are being paid for a job, and particularly one that you can't re-stage in case of image loss or mistakes, it gets to be a lot more important. An interesting question to ask is how long before the standard "backup" becomes a WiFi link to the cloud....

 

[BillB]

But it lacks any aspiration, for poor amateurs, looking at the competition.

We can only speculate based on what we see Canon do. And as you can tell from this forum, there's about as many interpretations and theories as there are people.

The way it looks to me, Canon has no interest whatsoever in giving up any kind of professional capability for a penny under the 5D4. Period.

Their omission of features and nerfing of others is very carefully done to target (deter) a specific group of users which are the amateurs and upstart pros.

Canon is pay to play. As in, pay $3,300 as an entry point for FF pro use.

Nikon on the other hand, has an entry point of $1,500 right now.

That's significant. No one in their right mind will think a Canon body is $1,800 better than the Nikon FF.

Nikon doesn't mind that a lower tier camera is used commercially. Canon sees that as a lost sale for a higher up pro body. The assumption here is that the consumer had the cash to go higher, but saved it as their needs were met at a lower price point. Maybe some. But for those who don't have the cash? Guess what, they aren't going to be choosing Canon unless they want to accept a significantly weaker camera capabilities...

Purely anecdotal and only my experience, but Nikon is used like 10:1 ratio against Canon in the entry pro realm. Canon is making big money, it's not on those folks - it's got to be all Rebel soccer dads and big time sports photography. Look at the sidelines of any major event. All 1D series. Most have dual 1D's with big white lenses on there. You'll see like maybe 1 Nikon in a sea of Canon.

These entry level pros, they add up. They are all over the place. Not sure why Canon ignores that market.

 

[Mikehit]

No one in their right mind will think a Canon body is $1,800 better than the Nikon FF.

Thousands of people disagree with you.
Does this mean the D810 or D4 are not thousands of $ better than the D750? Well, Nikon sure screwed that one up. And all those dumb Nikon pros buying the pro models....

Nikon doesn't mind that a lower tier camera is used commercially.

Who said Canon did?

Guess what, they aren't going to be choosing Canon unless they want to accept a significantly weaker camera capabilities...

And we come back to the same two possibilities:
- people are being duped
- The things you think are important are in fact trivial in terms of the market

 

[Mikehit]

But it lacks any aspiration, for poor amateurs, looking at the competition.

We can only speculate based on what we see Canon do. And as you can tell from this forum, there's about as many interpretations and theories as there are people.

The way it looks to me, Canon has no interest whatsoever in giving up any kind of professional capability for a penny under the 5D4. Period.

Their omission of features and nerfing of others is very carefully done to target (deter) a specific group of users which are the amateurs and upstart pros.

Canon is pay to play. As in, pay $3,300 as an entry point for FF pro use.

Nikon on the other hand, has an entry point of $1,500 right now.

That's significant. No one in their right mind will think a Canon body is $1,800 better than the Nikon FF.

Nikon doesn't mind that a lower tier camera is used commercially. Canon sees that as a lost sale for a higher up pro body. The assumption here is that the consumer had the cash to go higher, but saved it as their needs were met at a lower price point. Maybe some. But for those who don't have the cash? Guess what, they aren't going to be choosing Canon unless they want to accept a significantly weaker camera capabilities...

Purely anecdotal and only my experience, but Nikon is used like 10:1 ratio against Canon in the entry pro realm. Canon is making big money, it's not on those folks - it's got to be all Rebel soccer dads and big time sports photography. Look at the sidelines of any major event. All 1D series. Most have dual 1D's with big white lenses on there. You'll see like maybe 1 Nikon in a sea of Canon.

These entry level pros, they add up. They are all over the place. Not sure why Canon ignores that market.

I note you still have not replied to my request as to why YOU think the 6D outsells the D750.

 

[Loswr]

I note you still have not replied to my request as to why YOU think the 6D outsells the D750.

Yeah, well...he just ignores questions that upset his myopic little world view.

 

[rrcphoto]

But it lacks any aspiration, for poor amateurs, looking at the competition.

We can only speculate based on what we see Canon do. And as you can tell from this forum, there's about as many interpretations and theories as there are people.

The way it looks to me, Canon has no interest whatsoever in giving up any kind of professional capability for a penny under the 5D4. Period.

Their omission of features and nerfing of others is very carefully done to target (deter) a specific group of users which are the amateurs and upstart pros.

Canon is pay to play. As in, pay $3,300 as an entry point for FF pro use.

Nikon on the other hand, has an entry point of $1,500 right now.

That's significant. No one in their right mind will think a Canon body is $1,800 better than the Nikon FF.

Nikon doesn't mind that a lower tier camera is used commercially. Canon sees that as a lost sale for a higher up pro body. The assumption here is that the consumer had the cash to go higher, but saved it as their needs were met at a lower price point. Maybe some. But for those who don't have the cash? Guess what, they aren't going to be choosing Canon unless they want to accept a significantly weaker camera capabilities...

Purely anecdotal and only my experience, but Nikon is used like 10:1 ratio against Canon in the entry pro realm. Canon is making big money, it's not on those folks - it's got to be all Rebel soccer dads and big time sports photography. Look at the sidelines of any major event. All 1D series. Most have dual 1D's with big white lenses on there. You'll see like maybe 1 Nikon in a sea of Canon.

These entry level pros, they add up. They are all over the place. Not sure why Canon ignores that market.

I note you still have not replied to my request as to why YOU think the 6D outsells the D750.

to be fair, the D750 sold REALLY well against all full frame cameras for the majority of it's time.

however - the D750 was in response to the 5D Mark III and 6D completely outselling the D800 and D600 with their associated problems and the D610 even being DOA.

for whatever reason, the combination of what the 6D had to offer hit a home run. whether it was the size of the camera, the way canon sold it cheaply after a while, or the inclusion of half decent wifi / GPS which no nikon had / has .. who knows.

To think though that anyone here really knows the global market which canon is selling into and their requirements though (like some with single letter names) and knows it better, I just don't know. Good for them I guess.

One thing we do know from Sony's idiotic PR campaign is that canon is firmly in #1 for full frame cameras, even in dog months of jan - feb.

To suggest that canon isn't doing something right seems a little idiotic.

 

[IglooEater]

Oh my, this has been quite the read.

Maybe the older methods were the best... anyone care for a dual? Either pistols or ottoman scimitars.

 

[LonelyBoy]

Purely anecdotal and only my experience, but Nikon is used like 10:1 ratio against Canon in the entry pro realm. Canon is making big money, it's not on those folks - it's got to be all Rebel soccer dads and big time sports photography. Look at the sidelines of any major event. All 1D series. Most have dual 1D's with big white lenses on there. You'll see like maybe 1 Nikon in a sea of Canon.

These entry level pros, they add up. They are all over the place. Not sure why Canon ignores that market.

Given the relative sales and profits, apparently Canon has figured out that "entry level pros" are a cheap, whiny, and demanding bunch and that soccer dads and big time sports photographers are much better customers.

 

[Loswr]

I never saw you petitioning Canon to remove the 2nd card slot from the 1DX or 1DX2...

Hypocrisy.

Sure, I have cards in both slots and write to both (in duplicate). But...I have not ever had a card fail or missed a shot when switching out a card. In other words, my 1D X would be just as viable with one slot.

I have fire insurance, but my house has never burned down.....
I have life insurance, but I am still alive.....
I have 2 slots, and I have had a card fail on me.....

The second slot is insurance....odds are that you will never need it, but if you ever do it is great to have.... when you are being paid for a job, and particularly one that you can't re-stage in case of image loss or mistakes, it gets to be a lot more important. An interesting question to ask is how long before the standard "backup" becomes a WiFi link to the cloud....

A very reasonable response. Beyond 'K', apparently.

'Insurance' is why I have a second card in use, and write RAWs in duplicate. It's also why I back up my SSD routinely to multiple HDDs in different geographic locations.

I still question the idea that a second slot would make an entry level FF camera 'more viable for a lot of people'. What did pros do before digital? Were there dual film roll cameras? What did 5D/5DII and D700 users do? Oh, my!

Yes, times have changed. But card failures are rare (certainly much more rare than accidentally opening the back before rewinding the film!). If a dual slot is a requirement for someone, they pay more for a 5-series or buy a different brand. Clearly, the 6D sold well despite its 'handicap'.

 

[unfocused]

...card failures are rare (certainly much more rare than accidentally opening the back before rewinding the film!)...

Or having the film slip off the take up spool...Or forgetting to check the rewind handle to make sure there is film in the camera...or forgetting if you have Tri-X or Kodachrome in the camera...or forgetting to change the ISO dial from 64 to 400...or having the film canister pop open...or having the film stick together on the developing reel... or accidentally pouring fixer in the film developing tank instead of developer...

Man, so many ways to ruin a shoot. No wonder I don't worry about card failures. By comparison, the odds must be like 1 million to one.

 

[tj]

Oh my, this has been quite the read.

Maybe the older methods were the best... anyone care for a dual? Either pistols or ottoman scimitars.

Just enrolled, and I agree, a fascinating read. I thought everyone was entitled to an opinion however right or wrong it may be. A certain amount of bullying by a select few here, I'm sure they know who I am referring to.

 

[Loswr]

I thought everyone was entitled to an opinion however right or wrong it may be.

Welcome!

Certainly, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and encouraged to state it. But if you expect that opinions won't be challenged, then with respect, you've come to the wrong place.

For example, someone may hold the opinion that the earth is flat. They are free to express that opinion, but shouldn't be surprised when their opinion is challenged and contrary facts are presented. If their opinion is patently ridiculous, a certain amount of ridicule is likely to be thrown at them.

 

[Don Haines]

Yes, times have changed. But card failures are rare (certainly much more rare than accidentally opening the back before rewinding the film!).

never did that..... but I have had the film improperly threaded and not realized it until the exposure count got to 38 on a roll of 36....... There are lots of ways to screw up and we will find them...

Honestly, the biggest advantage of dual slot for me is when I take the card out to download to the computer, forget to put it back in, and go somewhere with the camera and find out once I got there that the card is missing... with a dual card I can still shoot.....

 

[LonelyBoy]

...card failures are rare (certainly much more rare than accidentally opening the back before rewinding the film!)...

Or having the film slip off the take up spool...Or forgetting to check the rewind handle to make sure there is film in the camera...or forgetting if you have Tri-X or Kodachrome in the camera...or forgetting to change the ISO dial from 64 to 400...or having the film canister pop open...or having the film stick together on the developing reel... or accidentally pouring fixer in the film developing tank instead of developer...

Man, so many ways to ruin a shoot. No wonder I don't worry about card failures. By comparison, the odds must be like 1 million to one.

There's an old AE-1 with whatever the kit lens was back then in the house I grew up in. Occasionally I get the notion to get it and shoot some film... until I think about the hassle of film that you just described. And the fact that for literally everything I want to do with it, my first step would be to run the film through a film scanner to get it digitized so I can put it online where everything is, because I don't want a massive album of prints or actual film. So I cut out the middleman and keep shooting digital.

Might get it this next time I go home just to have it, but I can't imagine why I'd actually shoot it.

 

[bdunbar79]

I thought everyone was entitled to an opinion however right or wrong it may be.

Welcome!

Certainly, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and encouraged to state it. But if you expect that opinions won't be challenged, then with respect, you've come to the wrong place.

For example, someone may hold the opinion that the earth is flat. They are free to express that opinion, but shouldn't be surprised when their opinion is challenged and contrary facts are presented. If their opinion is patently ridiculous, a certain amount of ridicule is likely to be thrown at them.

Such as when satellite images are presented. Or they are personally taken to space to observe the Earth's spherical nature.

After all that, still arguing the Earth is flat.

 

[Loswr]

Honestly, the biggest advantage of dual slot for me is when I take the card out to download to the computer, forget to put it back in, and go somewhere with the camera and find out once I got there that the card is missing... with a dual card I can still shoot.....

Haven't done that, probably never will. But it's simpler for me because both slots take CF. I have three cards of the same size, slot 1 is the 'primary' card and slot 2 is the backup. When I finish a shooting session, I take out the card in slot 1, and put the extra card in and format it, and I'm ready for next time. The pics are transferred to my computer, and that card becomes the 'extra' one. When the backup is getting full, I swap that one for the extra card.

 

[Mikehit]

Oh my, this has been quite the read.

Maybe the older methods were the best... anyone care for a dual? Either pistols or ottoman scimitars.

Just enrolled, and I agree, a fascinating read. I thought everyone was entitled to an opinion however right or wrong it may be. A certain amount of bullying by a select few here, I'm sure they know who I am referring to.

Stating (for example) you would like dual card slots is a statement of preference. Stating that dual card slots are a feature essential to everyone (as K has done), or stating that with the 6D Canon got it badly wrong (which K has done) is an opinion that people are free to challenge. Especially when there is evidence to show it. If he keeps restating the same comments he will get the same responses.
The fact he keeps restating them, does that make K the 'bully'?

 

[tj]

G'day, and thank you to those who welcomed me, I guessed 2 out of the 3. Opinions. Yes it is healthy to challenge our differences, very healthy and enjoyable, it is how we progress. It is the nature of how we debate that determines 'what' we are.
Should someone believe 2+2 = 5 for example, do we try to change their view reasonably and calmly? over and over again sometimes; or do we shout at them, ridicule, humiliate them into submission? - net result, they may be too intimidated to ever ask a question again.
On that note, I'll leave the debate to get back to the number of card slots.

 

[K]

The regulars have determined that dual card slot has no value.

Therefore, we ask Canon to remove it from the 5D4, 5DS/R, 7D2 and 1DX2.

They all agree.

While we wait 5 years for updates to the above cameras, Canon can disable such feature via firmware update. Canon, please eliminate this frivolous capability. The members of Canonrumors have spoken.