Announcing The Canon EOS-1D X Mark II

Viggo said:
You could always nitpick and be a baby.

When you wrote about the 1dx2 on Facebook you wrote. "Beyond the spec sheet." And for the new Sony it was "Sony changes the game again!" And then something about matching the "new dslr offerings". I won't go back and forth about the things wrote about Canon vs sonikon. But it's VERY clear that your general bias is with sonikon, it's just to transparent. And when I pointed it out in a non-troll way on your fb page, what did you do? You frikkin deleted my comment...

No comments were deleted. The full thread was deleted b/c we reposted our story on FB after it was significantly beefed up with more content. FB doesn't allow you to have two of the exact same stories/links in a feed, so we had to delete our old one.

I'd be happy to address any other conspiracy theories you might have.
 
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Jack Douglas said:
Don Haines said:
expatinasia said:
Jack Douglas said:
Canon consistently has followed my suggestions and made each new camera better than the last

I am not sure which site you are talking about, but that quote cracked me up!! Oh dear.... :D

Thanks for sharing.
That is one the funniest things seen on this forum..... It is either very tongue in cheek, or the greatest case of overflowing ego ever!

Gee.... they make new models better than the older model... and you think you had to tell them to do that.... and you think they listened to you say that? ? ? WOW!!!!! Just in case they are still listening, I will now tell Canon to make their series 2 lenses sharper than the series 1 lenses.....

So, no one is venturing a guess who wrote these things on their high profile web page?! I'm surprised.

I could have quoted more but it might have become the "killer joke". ;)

Jack

Is that our friend Ken ? In his defence you should read his intro section why says something like " To my Darling Candy, all characters portraid within this site are purely fictitional and and resemblance to any persons either living or dead is purely coincidental".

Or maybe that was Red Dwarf. I get them mixed up.
 
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msm said:
Jack Douglas said:
Jack Douglas said:
Canon consistently has followed my suggestions and made each new camera better than the last

So, no one is venturing a guess who wrote these things on their high profile web page?! I'm surprised.

Allright then: Ken Rockwell!

Isn't Google a wonderful thing? Cut & Paste the quote in the search box and BOOM, the very first result. Guessing is so 20th century.
 
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Don Haines said:
Just in case they are still listening, I will now tell Canon to make their series 2 lenses sharper than the series 1 lenses.....

Yeah, be sure to tell DxO that...they're just as in biased as DPR.


privatebydesign said:
I didn't gloss over anything, I marveled at your ability to say positive things in a negative light and cast aspertions by offering unknown expectations that a competitor might be better, meanwhile playing down very real groundbreaking tech and features.

A very astute summary.
 
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rishi_sanyal said:
It's fine if you'd rather us not do our job, but that's not going to stop us from doing it, nor does it make what we say 'passive aggressive biased garbage'.

Sure, you're unbiased. ::)


[quote author=rishi on DPR]
The metering sensor on the 1D X II has experienced a significant increase in resolution. With 360,000 RGB+IR pixels, it's the highest resolution metering sensor we've ever seen. This should lead to accurate metering...
[/quote]

[quote author=rishi on DPR]
[The D5's] all-new AF system is coupled with a new 180K pixel RGB metering system and Advanced Scene Recognition System, helping to achieve optimally balanced exposures and accurate white balance in even the most challenging light.
[/quote]
 
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rishi_sanyal said:
Viggo said:
You could always nitpick and be a baby.

When you wrote about the 1dx2 on Facebook you wrote. "Beyond the spec sheet." And for the new Sony it was "Sony changes the game again!" And then something about matching the "new dslr offerings". I won't go back and forth about the things wrote about Canon vs sonikon. But it's VERY clear that your general bias is with sonikon, it's just to transparent. And when I pointed it out in a non-troll way on your fb page, what did you do? You frikkin deleted my comment...

No comments were deleted. The full thread was deleted b/c we reposted our story on FB after it was significantly beefed up with more content. FB doesn't allow you to have two of the exact same stories/links in a feed, so we had to delete our old one.

I'd be happy to address any other conspiracy theories you might have.

Simply not true, there were 6 other comments there that remained exactly the same.

It's not a conspiracy, you're simply bought off...
 
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Ken was an easy guess for most I suspect. Anyway it's out there.

Making positive statements in a negative light is a favorite technique of many and probably so ingrained that they are incapable of differentiating the difference. It sure is entertaining when someone is less than forthright after the hounds are on the trail. ;)

Dear old Ma from years back: "Oh what a tangled web we weave if at first we do deceive." ;D

Jack
 
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Jack Douglas said:
Ken was an easy guess for most I suspect. Anyway it's out there.

Making positive statements in a negative light is a favorite technique of many and probably so ingrained that they are incapable of differentiating the difference. It sure is entertaining when someone is less than forthright after the hounds are on the trail. ;)

Dear old Ma from years back: "Oh what a tangled web we weave if at first we do deceive." ;D

Jack

http://www.nwhsa.org.uk/calls/26-HARRK%20FO-OR-ORRAD.MP3
 
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Viggo said:
rishi_sanyal said:
Viggo said:
You could always nitpick and be a baby.

When you wrote about the 1dx2 on Facebook you wrote. "Beyond the spec sheet." And for the new Sony it was "Sony changes the game again!" And then something about matching the "new dslr offerings". I won't go back and forth about the things wrote about Canon vs sonikon. But it's VERY clear that your general bias is with sonikon, it's just to transparent. And when I pointed it out in a non-troll way on your fb page, what did you do? You frikkin deleted my comment...

No comments were deleted. The full thread was deleted b/c we reposted our story on FB after it was significantly beefed up with more content. FB doesn't allow you to have two of the exact same stories/links in a feed, so we had to delete our old one.

I'd be happy to address any other conspiracy theories you might have.

Simply not true, there were 6 other comments there that remained exactly the same.

It's not a conspiracy, you're simply bought off...
Wow, I do not know that. That is pretty sad. Another most funny thing is, DPR is the worst website in terms of publishing decent sample images or gallery from new equipment compared to every other photography website/blog. Most of the times they produce crappy. It doesn't matter how amazing Sony and Nikon. Of Course my pics are worst than them. I should not comment on others pics. But I can not put my head around and comprehend how come such a big photography website doesn't produce stunning images like rest of the photo websites or blogs.
 
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neuroanatomist said:
rishi_sanyal said:
It's fine if you'd rather us not do our job, but that's not going to stop us from doing it, nor does it make what we say 'passive aggressive biased garbage'.

Sure, you're unbiased. ::)


[quote author=rishi on DPR]
The metering sensor on the 1D X II has experienced a significant increase in resolution. With 360,000 RGB+IR pixels, it's the highest resolution metering sensor we've ever seen. This should lead to accurate metering...

[quote author=rishi on DPR]
[The D5's] all-new AF system is coupled with a new 180K pixel RGB metering system and Advanced Scene Recognition System, helping to achieve optimally balanced exposures and accurate white balance in even the most challenging light.
[/quote]
[/quote]

This is one of the silliest exchanges I've seen on this forum and that says a lot.

If there is supposed to be some grand point you are trying to illustrate by juxtaposing these two quotes, it's a massive fail. Why don't we all take off the tinfoil hats, grow up and just accept that people may have different opinions and different perspectives without assuming some ulterior motive and parsing every word that a reviewer might write. I like Canon as much as the next person (probably more), but that doesn't mean I assume that anyone who is mildly critical is on the take.

Personally, I find DPR's reviews quite helpful and wish they'd hurry up and do a complete review of the 1DX II. I learn a lot more from criticism than I do from effusive compliments.
 
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expatinasia said:
unfocused said:
Personally, I find DPR's reviews quite helpful and wish they'd hurry up and do a complete review of the 1DX II. I learn a lot more from criticism than I do from effusive compliments.

What are you upgrading from?

I currently use a 5DIII for general purpose shooting and a 7DII for sports. I will await the announcement of the 5DIV, but am leaning toward the 1DX II. Why? I need the silent shutter for much of the general purpose (non-sports) shooting I do and so, the 1DX I will not meet my needs. That would mean I would need to keep the 5D III and not really save that much over the 1D X II.

If the 5DIV has a faster frame rate and autofocus comparable to the 7DII, I could save myself some money and upgrade to the 5DIV. However, I quite candidly am tempted to go with the "no compromises" solution if I can make the finances work.

I am just anxious to gather as much information as possible and read as many reviews as I can before making a decision. I earn a substantial portion of my income from photography for a variety of clients, but I am not wealthy and the revenues are modest, so I must research my options carefully and plan for the expenditure.
 
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unfocused said:
neuroanatomist said:
rishi_sanyal said:
It's fine if you'd rather us not do our job, but that's not going to stop us from doing it, nor does it make what we say 'passive aggressive biased garbage'.

Sure, you're unbiased. ::)


[quote author=rishi on DPR]
The metering sensor on the 1D X II has experienced a significant increase in resolution. With 360,000 RGB+IR pixels, it's the highest resolution metering sensor we've ever seen. This should lead to accurate metering...

[quote author=rishi on DPR]
[The D5's] all-new AF system is coupled with a new 180K pixel RGB metering system and Advanced Scene Recognition System, helping to achieve optimally balanced exposures and accurate white balance in even the most challenging light.
[/quote]

This is one of the silliest exchanges I've seen on this forum and that says a lot.

If there is supposed to be some grand point you are trying to illustrate by juxtaposing these two quotes, it's a massive fail. Why don't we all take off the tinfoil hats, grow up and just accept that people may have different opinions and different perspectives without assuming some ulterior motive and parsing every word that a reviewer might write. I like Canon as much as the next person (probably more), but that doesn't mean I assume that anyone who is mildly critical is on the take.

Personally, I find DPR's reviews quite helpful and wish they'd hurry up and do a complete review of the 1DX II. I learn a lot more from criticism than I do from effusive compliments.
[/quote]

That those two quotes were used to 'prove' some sort of grand conspiracy about how DPR has been bought off by everyone but Canon shows how much your own bias can shape the 'lens' through which you see everything. When we dared suggest the a7 II was an under-performer with respect to low light image quality, we received numerous complaints about our apparent inability to evaluate Sony products with any sort of objectivity, finding any excuse we could to put down Sony. One such user even trying to get me fired for my anti-Sony ramblings.

Bias can be a powerful thing. Especially when it stops requiring any reason before casting aspersions - why would we have any brand bias to begin with?

If you're going to suggest financial motivations, would your own bias and justification system stop you from questioning how somehow the biggest, arguably most profitable camera company has somehow forgotten to buy off one of the biggest review sites? But I'm sure a conspiracy theory could be concocted for that as well. Here I'll help: 'they're so big they don't need you so they don't care to buy you off.'

Justifications on top of justifications. Unnecessarily overcomplicated explanations that overfit the data.

Of course, none of these claims of simply anti-Canon bias explain why some years back, Nikon owners harassed us to no end as to why we were so pro-Canon back before Nikon joined the CMOS bandwagon. Or the recent allegations in the Nikon forums for my Canon fanboyism b/c I dared suggest that Nikon VR with certain lenses interacts parasitically with mirror shock while having a personal portfolio shot 95% with Canon cameras.

It's human nature, of course, to nitpick the pieces of evidence, no matter how small, that fit your theory, ignoring all evidence to the contrary. One might hope, though, that at least more compelling evidence than what neuroanatomist has presented might be available.
 
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rishi_sanyal said:
unfocused said:
neuroanatomist said:
rishi_sanyal said:
It's fine if you'd rather us not do our job, but that's not going to stop us from doing it, nor does it make what we say 'passive aggressive biased garbage'.

Sure, you're unbiased. ::)


[quote author=rishi on DPR]
The metering sensor on the 1D X II has experienced a significant increase in resolution. With 360,000 RGB+IR pixels, it's the highest resolution metering sensor we've ever seen. This should lead to accurate metering...

[quote author=rishi on DPR]
[The D5's] all-new AF system is coupled with a new 180K pixel RGB metering system and Advanced Scene Recognition System, helping to achieve optimally balanced exposures and accurate white balance in even the most challenging light.

This is one of the silliest exchanges I've seen on this forum and that says a lot.

If there is supposed to be some grand point you are trying to illustrate by juxtaposing these two quotes, it's a massive fail. Why don't we all take off the tinfoil hats, grow up and just accept that people may have different opinions and different perspectives without assuming some ulterior motive and parsing every word that a reviewer might write. I like Canon as much as the next person (probably more), but that doesn't mean I assume that anyone who is mildly critical is on the take.

Personally, I find DPR's reviews quite helpful and wish they'd hurry up and do a complete review of the 1DX II. I learn a lot more from criticism than I do from effusive compliments.
[/quote]

That those two quotes were used to 'prove' some sort of grand conspiracy about how DPR has been bought off by everyone but Canon shows how much your own bias can shape the 'lens' through which you see everything. When we dared suggest the a7 II was an under-performer with respect to low light image quality, we received numerous complaints about our apparent inability to evaluate Sony products with any sort of objectivity, finding any excuse we could to put down Sony. One such user even trying to get me fired for my anti-Sony ramblings.

Bias can be a powerful thing. Especially when it stops requiring any reason before casting aspersions - why would we have any brand bias to begin with?

If you're going to suggest financial motivations, would your own bias and justification system stop you from questioning how somehow the biggest, arguably most profitable camera company has somehow forgotten to buy off one of the biggest review sites? But I'm sure a conspiracy theory could be concocted for that as well. Here I'll help: 'they're so big they don't need you so they don't care to buy you off.'

Justifications on top of justifications. Unnecessarily overcomplicated explanations that overfit the data.

Of course, none of these claims of simply anti-Canon bias explain why some years back, Nikon owners harassed us to no end as to why we were so pro-Canon back before Nikon joined the CMOS bandwagon. Or the recent allegations in the Nikon forums for my Canon fanboyism b/c I dared suggest that Nikon VR with certain lenses interacts parasitically with mirror shock while having a personal portfolio shot 95% with Canon cameras.

It's human nature, of course, to nitpick the pieces of evidence, no matter how small, that fit your theory, ignoring all evidence to the contrary. One might hope, though, that at least more compelling evidence than what neuroanatomist has presented might be available.
[/quote]
Fair enough Rishi. Looking at your D5 release articles and later 1DX2 article with reference to D5, you portrayed D5 as revolutionary kind of camera and 1DX2 as a evalutionary kind. Why do you think D5 is some kind of revolution and 1DX2 is a evalution.
 
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rishi_sanyal said:
It's human nature, of course, to nitpick the pieces of evidence, no matter how small, that fit your theory, ignoring all evidence to the contrary. One might hope, though, that at least more compelling evidence than what neuroanatomist has presented might be available.

This little exchange got me looking at DPR again, and I see they gave the Canon 7DII a "silver award", that is a camera which basically excels at everything apart from FF sensor size, a camera which was quoted by a Sony exec as 'the one to beat', a camera which has forced Nikon to finally respond with their identical D500.

I'm really looking forward to seeing the Nikon given the "silver award" ;)
 
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You can't argue that evaluating equipment isn't a challenging job. I believe the intentions are noble and do not subscribe to any conspiracies. That doesn't change the fact of certain statements reflecting bias from time to time. No one is perfect and I sympathize.

Jack
 
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rishi_sanyal said:
unfocused said:
neuroanatomist said:
rishi_sanyal said:
It's fine if you'd rather us not do our job, but that's not going to stop us from doing it, nor does it make what we say 'passive aggressive biased garbage'.

Sure, you're unbiased. ::)


[quote author=rishi on DPR]
The metering sensor on the 1D X II has experienced a significant increase in resolution. With 360,000 RGB+IR pixels, it's the highest resolution metering sensor we've ever seen. This should lead to accurate metering...

[quote author=rishi on DPR]
[The D5's] all-new AF system is coupled with a new 180K pixel RGB metering system and Advanced Scene Recognition System, helping to achieve optimally balanced exposures and accurate white balance in even the most challenging light.

This is one of the silliest exchanges I've seen on this forum and that says a lot.

If there is supposed to be some grand point you are trying to illustrate by juxtaposing these two quotes, it's a massive fail. Why don't we all take off the tinfoil hats, grow up and just accept that people may have different opinions and different perspectives without assuming some ulterior motive and parsing every word that a reviewer might write. I like Canon as much as the next person (probably more), but that doesn't mean I assume that anyone who is mildly critical is on the take.

Personally, I find DPR's reviews quite helpful and wish they'd hurry up and do a complete review of the 1DX II. I learn a lot more from criticism than I do from effusive compliments.
[/quote]

That those two quotes were used to 'prove' some sort of grand conspiracy about how DPR has been bought off by everyone but Canon shows how much your own bias can shape the 'lens' through which you see everything.
[/quote]

In fact, I was pointing out that DPR is biased, nothing more. Not conspiracy, not corruption. Apparently you're seeing things through your own biased 'lens'. Defensiveness, perhaps?

Motivation for the bias? No idea, and none required. Maybe I don't like okra...so I eschew restaurants where it's commonly served and don't recommend those restaurants to friends. Not a problem...unless I'm the editor of Zagats and I allow my bias to influence my reviews and ratings. (Just an example - in fact, I quite like okra.)

The bottom line is that DPR's 'reviews' are replete with examples of that bias. Nikon's auto AF fine tune is a new feature that 'will help address a major shortcoming of dSLRs' (it's a great feature, but that shortcoming has been manually addressable by both Nikon and Canon for years, and never mind that Canon's implementation allows two values for zooms which are far more common than primes, oh, and I missed that being mentioned when the 1D X launched). Meanwhile, Canon's anti-flicker technology 'syncs up with fluctuations that occur in some artificial lighting'. Nothing interesting, move along.

Impossible to list all the examples, and really there is no point. DPR's viewpoint can be summarized as: 'Nikon cameras deliver awesome performance and stellar images, and Canon cameras take decent pictures.'
 
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Honestly, its hard for DPR reviewer to not be bias or to be honest. That is why I never trust review sites. Specially Car review. I rather hear personal comments on the products. I guess its bad for dpr to call both cameras evolutionary, they need to stir some conflict to attract more readers, they wont change anything when they praise canon more. canon reader is definitely old canon reader. while a nikon reader might be a new reader that say wow, let me tell this news to my friends. d5 kick some ass.
 
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neuroanatomist said:
In fact, I was pointing out that DPR is biased, nothing more...

...Not a problem...unless I'm the editor of Zagats and I allow my bias to influence my reviews and ratings...

...Nikon's auto AF fine tune is a new feature that 'will help address a major shortcoming of dSLRs' (it's a great feature, but that shortcoming has been manually addressable by both Nikon and Canon for years...

...DPR's viewpoint can be summarized as: 'Nikon cameras deliver awesome performance and stellar images, and Canon cameras take decent pictures.'

The problem is you are equating reviews with objective reporting. Reviews are never objective. Nor should they be. Every reviewer brings their own biases to the table. That's a given.

You mention restaurant reviews. But, what good would a restaurant review be if the reviewer did not interject their own opinion into the review? Without that opinion, it's simply reporting and as important as objective (notwithstanding the very real debate over whether or not any reporter can be truly objective) reporting might be, that's not what reviews are about.

You seem to equate a positive comment about a Nikon feature as a slight against Canon. But the one is not exclusive of the other. Nikon can have a new, innovative feature on its cameras, and that doesn't take anything away from Canon. Let's keep the audience in mind as well. At the 1D and D5 level, there is very little switching between brands. Commending Nikon for a feature new to its cameras need not imply that the feature or a similar one is not available on other brands.

This is far different than a company that purports to offer "scientific" tests of products and uses a deeply flawed and oversimplified system that results in every test beginning with one product already disadvantaged.

You are free to disagree with any reviewer and even to feel that a particular reviewer is biased. In fact, they are biased – everyone is. That reviewers are biased is as newsworthy as reporting with great excitement that grass is green. Reviewers are biased? No Sh*t Sherlock.
 
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