Another announcement: Nikon D500!

[jrista]

This could totally be my entry into the Nikon world. This, paired with a 150-600, would make for a pretty darn nice lighter weight birding rig than my 5D III with the 600mm. I will still end up with a 5D IV and will still use the 600mm, but I don't really like to travel with that setup much...just too much risk with too much money. A D500 w/ 150-600 would just be a great backup rig, or just for those days when I don't want to go out lugging around a heavy setup.

Really looking forward to this.

 

[ahsanford]

This could totally be my entry into the Nikon world. This, paired with a 150-600, would make for a pretty darn nice lighter weight birding rig than my 5D III with the 600mm. I will still end up with a 5D IV and will still use the 600mm, but I don't really like to travel with that setup much...just too much risk with too much money. A D500 w/ 150-600 would just be a great backup rig, or just for those days when I don't want to go out lugging around a heavy setup.

Really looking forward to this.

Unless you really think:

• You expect the D500's SoNikon sensor to absolutely dust the 7D2 sensor at birding ISO
• You need a bigger buffer than your 7D2
• You really need 4K video
• You really want -4 EV center point AF
• Automated AFMA might be a game-changer

...why not just get a 7D2 (if you don't already own one) and stay entirely in-family? Same ergonomics, same AF setup, you could use that 150-600 on your 5D3 (or future EF rigs), etc.

You certainly know what you are doing, jrista, but what's the killer app on the other side of the fence that has you fired up? Just curious.

- A

 

[jrista]

This could totally be my entry into the Nikon world. This, paired with a 150-600, would make for a pretty darn nice lighter weight birding rig than my 5D III with the 600mm. I will still end up with a 5D IV and will still use the 600mm, but I don't really like to travel with that setup much...just too much risk with too much money. A D500 w/ 150-600 would just be a great backup rig, or just for those days when I don't want to go out lugging around a heavy setup.

Really looking forward to this.

Unless you really think:

• You expect the D500's SoNikon sensor to absolutely dust the 7D2 sensor at birding ISO
• You need a bigger buffer than your 7D2
• You really need 4K video
• You really want -4 EV center point AF
• Automated AFMA might be a game-changer

...why not just get a 7D2 (if you don't already own one) and stay entirely in-family? Same ergonomics, same AF setup, you could use that 150-600 on your 5D3 (or future EF rigs), etc.

You certainly know what you are doing, jrista, but what's the killer app on the other side of the fence that has you fired up? Just curious.

- A

I'm not a big fan of Canon these days. I stick with them for what they are good at, but other brands often offer so much more, for so much less. I have stated many times that I've been quite impressed by the Samsung NX1...still am. Rather sad Samsung seems to be shutting that camera down in Europe...and really hoping that trend isn't going to expand to the whole globe. I think Samsung has some truly impressive technology in that little camera.

I have also been immensely impressed by the ultra cheap A6000. I used a friends for a good while last year, and was waiting for Sony to release the A6100. That didn't happen last year, the camera was delayed, however it seems it's been rescheduled for March this year. The A6100 is at the top of my list for my next camera, and it would be the first one I buy, before a D500 even. I love the Canon EF 600mm f/4 L II lens. Best lens in the world, IMO. It's phenomenal. I am not happy with the IQ of the 5D III in general...it's decent enough, but I just want more. I am hoping the 5D IV shines more than the 5D III did (I'm not expecting world-shattering DR...I just don't want the high dark current and scratchy noise...and I spend a LOT of time digging around in various camera raw files, so I know exactly what I'm looking for.)

The A6000 is just impressive. It's small. It's ridiculously fast (11fps). It's got excellent IQ. It's mirrorless, so it can be adapted to pretty much any lens. The biggest drawback is adapted lenses don't focus that fast...however the A6100 should be fixing that as it's supposed to get Sony's new AF technology (showcased in the A7r II). For anything where I need tripod-based reach, I'd pick the A6100 over anything else right now, and I'd happily adapt my Canon 600mm lens to it as well.

It's the handheld work with the 600 where I really want the big 5D size body. It just gives me a more reliable thing to attach to the lens and grip and balance the whole rig with. I wouldn't want to use a small mirrorless with a huge lens handheld like that.

Anyway. Samsung NX1 and Sony A6000. I have long been very impressed by both cameras. I am also very impressed with the Sony A7r II, but it's pricy. The Sony A7 series also has a bummer of an issue with it's bulb mode that make it not particularly viable for astrophotography (it permanently enables a certain kind of spatial NR when using bulb mode that wreaks havoc on small stars...bleh. We call it the star eater.) I would much rather spend my big bucks on astrophotography gear, which is even more expensive...that makes it tough to shell out $3500-$4000 on a DSLR when you need $5000, $7000, $15000 for a piece of astrophotography equipment.

 

[Larsskv]

This could totally be my entry into the Nikon world. This, paired with a 150-600, would make for a pretty darn nice lighter weight birding rig than my 5D III with the 600mm. I will still end up with a 5D IV and will still use the 600mm, but I don't really like to travel with that setup much...just too much risk with too much money. A D500 w/ 150-600 would just be a great backup rig, or just for those days when I don't want to go out lugging around a heavy setup.

Really looking forward to this.

Unless you really think:

• You expect the D500's SoNikon sensor to absolutely dust the 7D2 sensor at birding ISO
• You need a bigger buffer than your 7D2
• You really need 4K video
• You really want -4 EV center point AF
• Automated AFMA might be a game-changer

...why not just get a 7D2 (if you don't already own one) and stay entirely in-family? Same ergonomics, same AF setup, you could use that 150-600 on your 5D3 (or future EF rigs), etc.

You certainly know what you are doing, jrista, but what's the killer app on the other side of the fence that has you fired up? Just curious.

Let me put it to you like this. If tomorrow Canon came out with a 7DX (at $2000) that had all of the above new features in it, would you recommend that people buy the 7D2 or the 7DX?

And if they already had the 7D2, would you say "don't upgrade to the 7DX"?

I've seen some indications that the 4K isn't really well implemented on the D500. It has a crop factor, which means you will have 2,2x crop factor compared to FF, making wide angle shooting impossible. Further, Nikon lacks live view focusing, and does not feature focus peaking. Buying the D500 for 4K filming doesn't seem like a good idea.

Who needs a bigger buffer than the 7DII? It shoots 1000 jpg, and 30+ raw. I have never reached the buffer limit in raw shooting, in real world use..

The sensor might be better, but I'm not so sure it will be significant. The 7DII's sensor is in most regards competitive to the one in the D7200, and I don't expect a sensor revolution in the D500.

For birding and light weight equiptment, I think you will have to work hard to find a match to the 7DII+100-400LII.

 

[unfocused]

This could totally be my entry into the Nikon world. This, paired with a 150-600, would make for a pretty darn nice lighter weight birding rig than my 5D III with the 600mm. I will still end up with a 5D IV and will still use the 600mm, but I don't really like to travel with that setup much...just too much risk with too much money. A D500 w/ 150-600 would just be a great backup rig, or just for those days when I don't want to go out lugging around a heavy setup.

Really looking forward to this.

Unless you really think:

• You expect the D500's SoNikon sensor to absolutely dust the 7D2 sensor at birding ISO
• You need a bigger buffer than your 7D2
• You really need 4K video
• You really want -4 EV center point AF
• Automated AFMA might be a game-changer

...why not just get a 7D2 (if you don't already own one) and stay entirely in-family? Same ergonomics, same AF setup, you could use that 150-600 on your 5D3 (or future EF rigs), etc.

You certainly know what you are doing, jrista, but what's the killer app on the other side of the fence that has you fired up? Just curious.

Let me put it to you like this. If tomorrow Canon came out with a 7DX (at $2000) that had all of the above new features in it, would you recommend that people buy the 7D2 or the 7DX?

And if they already had the 7D2, would you say "don't upgrade to the 7DX"?

Let me put it to you like this: If you already owned an $11,000 lens would you buy a $2,000 body that requires you to use a much cheaper and admittedly less sharp lens? or would you buy a $1,400 body that has 98% of the features of the more expensive body, but that you can use with both the $11,000 lens and the less costly lens?

 

[3kramd5]

This could totally be my entry into the Nikon world. This, paired with a 150-600, would make for a pretty darn nice lighter weight birding rig than my 5D III with the 600mm. I will still end up with a 5D IV and will still use the 600mm, but I don't really like to travel with that setup much...just too much risk with too much money. A D500 w/ 150-600 would just be a great backup rig, or just for those days when I don't want to go out lugging around a heavy setup.

Really looking forward to this.

Unless you really think:

• You expect the D500's SoNikon sensor to absolutely dust the 7D2 sensor at birding ISO
• You need a bigger buffer than your 7D2
• You really need 4K video
• You really want -4 EV center point AF
• Automated AFMA might be a game-changer

...why not just get a 7D2 (if you don't already own one) and stay entirely in-family? Same ergonomics, same AF setup, you could use that 150-600 on your 5D3 (or future EF rigs), etc.

You certainly know what you are doing, jrista, but what's the killer app on the other side of the fence that has you fired up? Just curious.

Let me put it to you like this. If tomorrow Canon came out with a 7DX (at $2000) that had all of the above new features in it, would you recommend that people buy the 7D2 or the 7DX?

And if they already had the 7D2, would you say "don't upgrade to the 7DX"?

Rounding out that trade is "but the 7DX is incompatible with your existing lenses."

 

[Don Haines]

This could totally be my entry into the Nikon world. This, paired with a 150-600, would make for a pretty darn nice lighter weight birding rig than my 5D III with the 600mm. I will still end up with a 5D IV and will still use the 600mm, but I don't really like to travel with that setup much...just too much risk with too much money. A D500 w/ 150-600 would just be a great backup rig, or just for those days when I don't want to go out lugging around a heavy setup.

Really looking forward to this.

Unless you really think:

• You expect the D500's SoNikon sensor to absolutely dust the 7D2 sensor at birding ISO
• You need a bigger buffer than your 7D2
• You really need 4K video
• You really want -4 EV center point AF
• Automated AFMA might be a game-changer

...why not just get a 7D2 (if you don't already own one) and stay entirely in-family? Same ergonomics, same AF setup, you could use that 150-600 on your 5D3 (or future EF rigs), etc.

You certainly know what you are doing, jrista, but what's the killer app on the other side of the fence that has you fired up? Just curious.

Let me put it to you like this. If tomorrow Canon came out with a 7DX (at $2000) that had all of the above new features in it, would you recommend that people buy the 7D2 or the 7DX?

And if they already had the 7D2, would you say "don't upgrade to the 7DX"?

Not a very realistic question as it is probably at least 2 years until a 7D2 update.....

But there is the 80D

The 80D will probably be superior to the 7D2 in everything but <EDIT> AF, frame rate, and </EDIT> mechanical toughness.......

 

[ahsanford]

But there is the 80D

The 80D will probably be superior to the 7D2 in everything but mechanical toughness.......

80D > 7D2?

Resolution? Yes.

DR? Possibly.

High ISO? I'd assume yes.

Video? Certainly.

But certainly not in framerate or build quality (as you said), and I'm not convinced -- even with DPAF and touchscreen video magic -- it will be given a sports-wildlife level AF servo setup.

So if you are a birder, wildlife or sideline sports person, the 80D keepers might be pretty but I'm guessing the 7D2 will simply pull in more keepers.

- A

 

[Don Haines]

But there is the 80D

The 80D will probably be superior to the 7D2 in everything but mechanical toughness.......

80D > 7D2?

Resolution? Yes.

DR? Possibly.

High ISO? I'd assume yes.

Video? Certainly.

But certainly not in framerate or build quality (as you said), and I'm not convinced -- even with DPAF and touchscreen video magic -- it will be given a sports-wildlife level AF servo setup.

So if you are a birder, wildlife or sideline sports person, the 80D keepers might be pretty but I'm guessing the 7D2 will simply pull in more keepers.

- A

Sorry,

missed AF....

I would still expect superior AF and frame rate on the 7D2

I will go back and edit my previous comment

 

[Otara]

Id wait for a review whether I recommended an upgrade from a 7D2 to the 'hypothetical 7DX' listed above, in that theres a lot of nice stuff, but it still is the diminishing returns situation we've had for years now, and its the little gotchas that can make the difference that arent in spec sheets. Id take it for free without hesitation though!

For Nikonian wildlifers its closer to a no-brainer, my friend preordered as soon as he read the specs, and no more shall I hear his wailing about full buffers as I chug away beside him.

 

[ahsanford]

For Nikonian wildlifers its closer to a no-brainer, my friend preordered as soon as he read the specs, and no more shall I hear his wailing about full buffers as I chug away beside him.

I'll go a step further. For hobbyist Nikonians who shoot birds/wildlife, the D500 is nothing short of a hallelujah moment. Nikon birders have been stuck between a 6 fps D7200 (basically a 70D with a nice sensor but questionable AF) and biting the epic bullet to FF, likely a D750 and a very pricey lens migration.

This D500 rig is (a) tailor-made for their chosen activity and (b) keeps them in a reach-positive / budget-friendly position (more reach per dollar than FF).

Again, the overwhelming majority of birders with Nikon have to be considering pre-ordering, sight unseen / pre-reviews -- much like when the 7D2 dropped. For these folks, whether it's $2k or even $2500 is cheaper than climbing to FF and trying to get their reach back.

The question is -- where will the price stabilize after those folks are relieved of their money? Say, 6 months post-release? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 7D2 (as a reflection of what might happen with the D500) is owned by birders, but it's owned by a lot more general amateur / enthusiast shooters -- the parent with a three-sport athlete of a son/daughter, the amateur shutterbug who wants to future-proof his camera purchase but can't justify all the zeros on EF lens prices, etc.

- A

 

[Don Haines]

...
Let me put it to you like this: If you already owned an $11,000 lens would you buy a $2,000 body that requires you to use a much cheaper and admittedly less sharp lens? or would you buy a $1,400 body that has 98% of the features of the more expensive body, but that you can use with both the $11,000 lens and the less costly lens?

If you've dumped $11,000 on a lens from a manufacturer then you've decided to marry them and as we all know, divorces are expensive.

perhaps he has decided to have many wives.....

 

[ahsanford]

...
Let me put it to you like this: If you already owned an $11,000 lens would you buy a $2,000 body that requires you to use a much cheaper and admittedly less sharp lens? or would you buy a $1,400 body that has 98% of the features of the more expensive body, but that you can use with both the $11,000 lens and the less costly lens?

If you've dumped $11,000 on a lens from a manufacturer then you've decided to marry them and as we all know, divorces are expensive.

That's the thing. That's why I kicked this can your way, Dilbert. Knowing you had such an investment in hand with Canon already, what item is so particularly sexy to you to warrant an experiment with another mount?

There's nothing wrong with wanting to, and I'm certainly not winding you up or trying to talk you out of it. I'm legitimately curious what on the D500 spec sheet made you say "Hmmm... That is worth dangling one foot over the edge of Conversion Canyon."

- A

 

[Don Haines]

...
Let me put it to you like this: If you already owned an $11,000 lens would you buy a $2,000 body that requires you to use a much cheaper and admittedly less sharp lens? or would you buy a $1,400 body that has 98% of the features of the more expensive body, but that you can use with both the $11,000 lens and the less costly lens?

If you've dumped $11,000 on a lens from a manufacturer then you've decided to marry them and as we all know, divorces are expensive.

That's the thing. That's why I kicked this can your way, Dilbert. Knowing you had such an investment in hand with Canon already, what item is so particularly sexy to you to warrant an experiment with another mount?

There's nothing wrong with wanting to, and I'm certainly not winding you up or trying to talk you out of it. I'm legitimately curious what on the D500 spec sheet made you say "Hmmm... That is worth dangling one foot over the edge of Conversion Canyon."

- A

What gets me is the 5 stop increase in ISO over the 7D2....

51,200 - Max ISO on the 7D2
102,400 - What I expected from the next crop Nikon DSLR
204,800 - What I expect from a 5DIV
409,600 - What I expect from a 1DX2
819,200 - unrealistic
1,638,400 - What the D500 delivers

This is an unbelievable and unprecedented jump. It is too much to believe. I will have to see test shots to really believe it.....

If they really are 5 stops better in ISO performance, you would have to be crazy to not think real hard about jumping to Nikon, and if you were starting out, it would be even more pronounced

 

[bholliman]

What gets me is the 5 stop increase in ISO over the 7D2....

51,200 - Max ISO on the 7D2
102,400 - What I expected from the next crop Nikon DSLR
204,800 - What I expect from a 5DIV
409,600 - What I expect from a 1DX2
819,200 - unrealistic
1,638,400 - What the D500 delivers

This is an unbelievable and unprecedented jump. It is too much to believe. I will have to see test shots to really believe it.....

If they really are 5 stops better in ISO performance, you would have to be crazy to not think real hard about jumping to Nikon, and if you were starting out, it would be even more pronounced

Yeah, 1,638,400 is crazy!! Like you, I'm going to reserve judgement until I see examples and and hands on test results. Its possible Nikon is using the maximum ISO number for publicity. If their sensor/processor is really 5 stops better than the competition they have made a significant technological breakthrough.

 

[bdunbar79]

Canonrumorsguy posted one on Twitter. It's completely unusable, as predicted. It's awful.

 

[Don Haines]

What gets me is the 5 stop increase in ISO over the 7D2....

51,200 - Max ISO on the 7D2
102,400 - What I expected from the next crop Nikon DSLR
204,800 - What I expect from a 5DIV
409,600 - What I expect from a 1DX2
819,200 - unrealistic
1,638,400 - What the D500 delivers

This is an unbelievable and unprecedented jump. It is too much to believe. I will have to see test shots to really believe it.....

If they really are 5 stops better in ISO performance, you would have to be crazy to not think real hard about jumping to Nikon, and if you were starting out, it would be even more pronounced

Yeah, 1,638,400 is crazy!! Like you, I'm going to reserve judgement until I see examples and and hands on test results. Its possible Nikon is using the maximum ISO number for publicity. If their sensor/processor is really 5 stops better than the competition they have made a significant technological breakthrough.

The thing is, take a 7D2 sensor, go to BSI fabrication so there is no circuitry blocking the light, and come up with a magic 100 percent quantum efficiency design, and you get a stop more electrons..... that's as much more signal as you are going to get.... where do they get the other 4 stops from?

 

[bdunbar79]

They don't because there aren't 4 more stops. As evident from the Twitter photo.

 

[Orangutan]

Canonrumorsguy posted one on Twitter. It's completely unusable, as predicted. It's awful.

Maybe Nikon is planning to take on Sony in the lucrative paparazzi market. Low light, fast shutter, big lens, quality optional.

 

[expatinasia]

Canonrumorsguy posted one on Twitter. It's completely unusable, as predicted. It's awful.

Oh I don't know, that image is sort of artistic...lol ??? ;D

I don't think I ever shoot over 10,000 on the 1DX most of the time is between 100 and 2,500 sometimes push it a little but not often.

BTW thanks for sharing, I did not know CRG was on twitter. Good to know.