Any chance of an 80D surprise?

[K]

Nikon released two bodies and that was unexpected. Any chance Canon does the same?

A few months back, there were some killer sales on 70D bodies with printer combos for like $650 from authorized dealers. That to me looks like inventory reduction. The 70D has been out a while, and being a consumer level camera, is most likely to see update than a pro camera. The Nikon D500 came out of the blue. I don't recall there being any rumors about it.

The 70D is still a very capable and relevant camera by today's standards, and being that Canon is kinda slow on updates and conservative in their view of new features, maybe it won't happen. Then again, with the Rebel being what it is, it could be squeezing the 70D....

The Rebel currently has a newer sensor, more MP and better IQ than the 70D. While it has very good live view AF, it isn't as good as the dual-pixel, but it's pretty good. It still lacks several enthusiast features, but those alone don't make up for being weaker on IQ than the entry-level DSLR.

Unless you need a specific feature that only the 70D has, for the money ...there's no reason to go with it.

 

[StudentOfLight]

My guess is a September announcement (perhaps alongside a 6D-Mark-II)

DSLR with Full articulating LCD

24MP DPAF CMOS
65pt AF (All cross-type)
8 fps
CFast

Video (8bit 4:2:0)
4K UHD @ 25/30p
1080 @ 96p

 

[Plainsman]

@studentoflight:

Canon still behind Nikon here i.e. will the 80D have f8 AF like the D7100 (and how old is that one...?) so that we can have the 100-400 useable with the 1.4X TC on a 24Mp hi-res crop camera......

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

@studentoflight:

Canon still behind Nikon here i.e. will the 80D have f8 AF like the D7100 (and how old is that one...?) so that we can have the 100-400 useable with the 1.4X TC on a 24Mp hi-res crop camera......

As I used a D7100 rented by another photographer, I must say I would be happy if the AF works well with F5.6 lens. F8 lenses? Forget!

Unfortunately, even with the AF assist beam in flash, D7100 is very slow and hunting to focus in low light. Not in total darkness, but only moderate light fluorescent lamps in a children's party room.

 

[K]

If Canon makes the 80D too good, it can hurt 7D2 sales. Too weak, and it isn't much better than a Rebel.

I speculated about 6 months back that there may never be an 80D if Canon moves the Rebels up a touch, and the flagship 7D2 comes down in price, which it has. Sale prices from authorized dealers on the 7D2 are so low, what could an 80D possibly release at to make it worthwhile for the money?

Also what features would make someone want to skip a Rebel, but not necessarily need a 7D2? Other than AFMA over the Rebel and articulating touch screen over the 7D2, I can't think of anything.

Canon would have to release the 80D at a price right between the 7D2 and Rebel. And set it up to be an in between camera.

Maybe the 80D is a dead concept?

Might be better to just release like a Rebel extreme or a higher end Rebel. Something that would replace the 70D, but keep in line with the Rebels and compete with the D7200.

Canon has this gap to deal with. Especially in AF. Canon AF goes form the 19pt system up to the 61/65 point system. Nothing in between.


Nikon isn't stingy like Canon, and has no problem offering up the 51pt system on their D7100/7200. Canon is a bit stingy, and has kept their higher end AF on the 5D series cameras and the 7D2. Not even the 6D was given anything more than a 2008 era 11pt.

It's another one of these wedge issues I like to call it. Canon likes to treat features as make-or-break for certain types of photography to segment their product lines and force up selling. That is unfortunate. So either Canon needs to engineer a middle of the road AF system that is better than the 19pt system, but weaker than the 60 point systems to quite appearing stingy and or lacking innovation OR just give these $1,000+ MSRP cameras the 60 point systems and be done with it.

Then there is the FPS. The 70D puts out a respectable 7fps. For anyone except the most serious wildlife and sports people, 7FPS is quite usable. No problem doing sports and wildlife with that casually. Heck, millions have been doing ok with 5fps for years and years. So moving up in FPS would also chip away at the 7D2. 8fps? Unlikely. Give it a 60 point AF system? That could tip the scales for someone to buy an 80D and not a 7D2.



One idea could be, leave the FPS the same. Even leave the AF the same points, maybe make it better at low light a little. Basically, make it the IQ king of APS-C in the lineup. Use the new sensor tech and have 24-28mp, and just deliver the best IQ with a nice touch screen and video features. 7D2 is the rough and tough sports camera, the 80D is the peak of APS-C IQ and video. Rebels are Rebels.

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

Nikon isn't stingy like Canon, and has no problem offering up the 51pt system on their D7100/7200. Canon is a bit stingy, and has kept their higher end AF on the 5D series cameras and the 7D2. Not even the 6D was given anything more than a 2008 era 11pt.

In my practical experience, the modest T2i + 18-55mm STM, is faster and more accurate focus (with the central focus point) than D7100 + 18-105mm, both in dark environments.

I do not care if there are 60 focus points to choose from ... I just want the central focus point to work well in dark environments.

 

[unfocused]

...what features would make someone want to skip a Rebel, but not necessarily need a 7D2?

80D with:

Articulating Screen
Touch Screen
DPAF
Variable speed follow focus using touch screen
1080 at +70 fps
4K video
Headphone Jack

In other words, the next generation of video-focused DSLR for budget filmmakers unable to afford the Cinema line or the 1DX II. Optimizing the 80D for cinema will not negatively impact 7DII sales, which is optimized for sports, birds and wildlife.

There are enough extra features in the 1DX and Cinema so it would not impact those sales. But it would be a nice introductory camera for beginning filmmakers, as well as a good crash camera for professionals.

The future of DSLRs lies in specialization and niche markets.

 

[StudentOfLight]

...what features would make someone want to skip a Rebel, but not necessarily need a 7D2?

80D with:

Articulating Screen
Touch Screen
DPAF
Variable speed follow focus using touch screen
1080 at +70 fps
4K video
Headphone Jack

In other words, the next generation of video-focused DSLR for budget filmmakers unable to afford the Cinema line or the 1DX II. Optimizing the 80D for cinema will not negatively impact 7DII sales, which is optimized for sports, birds and wildlife.

There are enough extra features in the 1DX and Cinema so it would not impact those sales. But it would be a nice introductory camera for beginning filmmakers, as well as a good crash camera for professionals.

The future of DSLRs lies in specialization and niche markets.

Precisely!

 

[Aj6627]

I'm going to be getting either a 7d Mk II or an 80D(if announced) sometime this year.

The things that would tip me in favor of an 80d would be better high ISO handling and an articulated screen.

I was dubious with the screen on the 70d, but I like being able to put it away to protect it.

 

[unfocused]

The Rebel currently has a newer sensor, more MP and better IQ than the 70D.

I'm just curious what makes you believe the Rebels have "better IQ than the 70D?"

 

[nhz]

If Canon makes the 80D too good, it can hurt 7D2 sales. Too weak, and it isn't much better than a Rebel.

I speculated about 6 months back that there may never be an 80D if Canon moves the Rebels up a touch, and the flagship 7D2 comes down in price, which it has. Sale prices from authorized dealers on the 7D2 are so low, what could an 80D possibly release at to make it worthwhile for the money?

Also what features would make someone want to skip a Rebel, but not necessarily need a 7D2? Other than AFMA over the Rebel and articulating touch screen over the 7D2, I can't think of anything.

Canon would have to release the 80D at a price right between the 7D2 and Rebel. And set it up to be an in between camera.

Maybe the 80D is a dead concept?

You make a lot of good points in your post and I agree with almost everything. However your (and others) view on price is a bit US-centric IMHO. There haven't been any great deals on the 7D2 over here in Europe, it is still VERY expensive. The 70D has gradually come down in price and is now priced a bit above the 760D (which is about right I guess, given the older sensor and a few minor features over the Rebel). The huge price drops in the US are probably more related to exchange rates.

As to the 'wedge issues': I also find that Canon doesn't make a camera that I really like, while Nikon comes very close with several models. And this is definitely due to the way that Canon offers certain features only in combinations. Want a tilt screen AND AF micro-adjust (and up-to-date sensor)? Little choice ... Want a capable AF system and a light camera? As a Canon customer you are out of luck ...

I would probably buy the T6(i) if only it had AF micro-adjust. I would buy the 7D2 if it had a tilt screen, a better sensor (better especially for low ISO DR, don't care about extreme high ISO) and lower weight (really, it's almost a FF camera). I would buy the 6D2 if it had a tilt screen and a bit more capable AF. Etc. ...

Despite my preference for Canon glass, I'm going to move to Nikon or Sony this year unless they surprise me with a capable SL2, 80D, 6D2. But given how Canon groups features in cameras, I'm not holding my breath for Canon to deliver.

 

[Don Haines]

And remember, when the 70D came out, it was superior to the 7D in most aspects..... There is nothing that says that the 80D won't do the same to the 7DII...... We don't have a clue as to what is planned for the 80D or for the 7D3.

 

[Luds34]

My guess is a September announcement (perhaps alongside a 6D-Mark-II)

That's kind of what my gut tells me as well. By this fall I'd think both those models, falling into more consumer based products, will be do for a refresh.

The only issue is, that other's have eluded to, is where does the xxD line go? The 70D is still very much relevant and it's kind of a fine line to place it between the Rebel and the 7D. Of course, I'd argue for ergonomics alone there will always be a place for the xxD, not everyone wants a small Rebel size body. The 70D is a great camera, and especially at the prices one can get one for. It packs a lot of punch in the action/sports area.

The 6D on the other hand, I feel is due a bit more for a refresh. But that's another discussion.

 

[Plainsman]

Maybe its time for Canon to merge the 7D2 line with the xxD starting with the 80D.
I just want a hi-res 24Mp crop camera that will AF with a 100-400 @560mm, Mr Canon.

 

[tcmatthews]

I do not think there will be a 70D successor this year 6D II is a maybe.

Canon releases cameras on a schedule that is convenient for them not you. Several years ago my first 60D was flooded out. It was my own fault but I needed a new camera. I fell back on using my Rebel XS. There was all this talk about the rumored 70D was about to be announced. The date of the rumored announcement came and what was announced was the EOS-M.

Now I wanted a small travel camera but the EOS-M was a joke. The Canon 6D announced later that year was too late and too expensive I needed a camera before then.

In the end I pre-ordered the Nex6 and bought a second 60D. I considered buying an updated Rebel but I was having trouble adjusting back to the single control dial on my Rebel XS.

I may be a little jaded at this point. As for the sales there were killer deals for the 7DII as well and I do not think it will have a refresh anytime soon.

 

[nhz]

Maybe its time for Canon to merge the 7D2 line with the xxD starting with the 80D.
I just want a hi-res 24Mp crop camera that will AF with a 100-400 @560mm, Mr Canon.

That seems unlikely to me within the next year or so given the relatively recent introduction of the 7D2, which in every way is an upgraded 7D. A 80D with better sensor and AF than 70D might merge the lines, but only if it comes in late 2016/2017 after 7D2 sales have faded (still seems to be the most popular crop camera for wildlife etc.). I remember similar discussions about merging APS-C lines when the T6 was introduced ;-)

I would also like a hires crop camera that has capable AF with the 100-400 (with a 1.4x converter, if possible). The 7D2 is the only option for that, but it is too heavy for my taste and lacks a tilt screen which I need for many of my macro/close-up shots. The Rebels are probably good enough as long as you don't add a TC or require fast tracking, but they lack AFMA which can be critical for getting the best image quality and the crappy viewfinder doesn't help either.

When Canon starts merging lines, they could also merge the SL1/2 and the Rebel T6 into one line (competing with cameras like Nikon D5500), and maybe keep an additional ultra-cheap T5/1200D Rebel entry model.

 

[Ozarker]

If Canon makes the 80D too good, it can hurt 7D2 sales. Too weak, and it isn't much better than a Rebel.

I speculated about 6 months back that there may never be an 80D if Canon moves the Rebels up a touch, and the flagship 7D2 comes down in price, which it has. Sale prices from authorized dealers on the 7D2 are so low, what could an 80D possibly release at to make it worthwhile for the money?

Also what features would make someone want to skip a Rebel, but not necessarily need a 7D2? Other than AFMA over the Rebel and articulating touch screen over the 7D2, I can't think of anything.

Canon would have to release the 80D at a price right between the 7D2 and Rebel. And set it up to be an in between camera.

Maybe the 80D is a dead concept?

You make a lot of good points in your post and I agree with almost everything. However your (and others) view on price is a bit US-centric IMHO. There haven't been any great deals on the 7D2 over here in Europe, it is still VERY expensive. The 70D has gradually come down in price and is now priced a bit above the 760D (which is about right I guess, given the older sensor and a few minor features over the Rebel). The huge price drops in the US are probably more related to exchange rates.

As to the 'wedge issues': I also find that Canon doesn't make a camera that I really like, while Nikon comes very close with several models. And this is definitely due to the way that Canon offers certain features only in combinations. Want a tilt screen AND AF micro-adjust (and up-to-date sensor)? Little choice ... Want a capable AF system and a light camera? As a Canon customer you are out of luck ...

You do know the 70D has the articulating screen AND AF micro adjust. Is the sensor the problem? Love my 70D.

If my 5D Mark III had an articulating screen with the 70D DPAF it would be the perfect camera for me.

Maybe the 5D Mark IV (I wish they'd name it 5DX) will have all of that and a fast frame rate too (12fps). That would be a great camera. If the 1DX Mark II has a real high frame rate the new 5D won't hurt it.

 

[K]

The Rebel currently has a newer sensor, more MP and better IQ than the 70D.

I'm just curious what makes you believe the Rebels have "better IQ than the 70D?"

While processing goes a long way...the new Rebels have a 24mp newer generation sensor. They slightly edge out the 70D in IQ.

In fairness, it isn't by much. Practically unnoticeable by practical standards, must pixel peep it. But they're better.

The 80D will leapfrog them for certain, and probably the 7D2 also.

 

[Sporgon]

Looks like the answer is "yes"

 

[Don Haines]

The Rebel currently has a newer sensor, more MP and better IQ than the 70D.

I'm just curious what makes you believe the Rebels have "better IQ than the 70D?"

While processing goes a long way...the new Rebels have a 24mp newer generation sensor. They slightly edge out the 70D in IQ.

In fairness, it isn't by much. Practically unnoticeable by practical standards, must pixel peep it. But they're better.

The 80D will leapfrog them for certain, and probably the 7D2 also.

With one exception, every Canon crop camera that I remember has been a bit (or more) better than the one that was released before it in terms of IQ..... I would be very surprised if it wasn't a bit better than the 7D2. Progress marches on!