Any thoughts on how the 5d3 will compare on dxo mark to the Nikon D800?

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I guess I should have rephrased my question. Does anyone think the nikon d800 is a better all around sensor and camera than the canon 5d3 in terms of sharpness and detail at all iso's under 12,800? Basically is that a camera to consider for family photography?

Do you mean professional family portraits in a studio? Or casual family photos like you would take for fun at home or even on location professional candid shots at events?

If you're in a studio then I can see that the D800 may be the more logical choice. But if you're not in a controlled environment the 5DmkIII would be better.

actually a controlled environment might mean you can make sure ot only shoot lower DR scenes while uncontrolled might get you into MORE trouble

 

[takoman46]

A non controlled environment. I am coming from a Canon 60d and the noise is terrible above 800 without a speedlite and even then way to noisy. I would hope such a leap to FF and better technology would yield much better results just unsure if the d800 is the way to go or the canon 5d3. So far I have not seen the tremendous noise free 25k iso images in reviews actually I think it drops off at 6400 and continues from there. That's not much of an increase considering they are talking native 25k iso. So I was wondering if nikon was doing the reverse and saying 6400 with a true ceiling of 12800 or at least some very detailed images below 800. I do shoot in all kinds of light so that is why iso is so important. I also need a larger DOF since usually there are more than one person in my shots.

Comparing the 60D to the 5D is like comparing night and day. If the performance jump in all areas is tremendous. hence the reason for you spending $2400 more lol . A 60D is still however more than capable for attaining nice shots if you use a speedlite to compensate for not boosting higher ISO. The better ISO performance of the 5D will only make your job easier in one aspect by giving you more freedom to boost ISO and achieve faster shutter speeds at smaller apertures (thus giving you a deeper DOF or more in focus). In any case, it's still best to use flash if you are able to (i.e. not in a venue where flash is forbidden).

 

[takoman46]

I guess I should have rephrased my question. Does anyone think the nikon d800 is a better all around sensor and camera than the canon 5d3 in terms of sharpness and detail at all iso's under 12,800? Basically is that a camera to consider for family photography?

Do you mean professional family portraits in a studio? Or casual family photos like you would take for fun at home or even on location professional candid shots at events?

If you're in a studio then I can see that the D800 may be the more logical choice. But if you're not in a controlled environment the 5DmkIII would be better.

actually a controlled environment might mean you can make sure ot only shoot lower DR scenes while uncontrolled might get you into MORE trouble

Uncontrolled is the name of the game when shooting many on-location jobs. I agree that it definitely can cause you a ton of trouble but somebody's got to do the job right? So if you choose to take the job, then it will only help you to have a camera that makes accomplishing your job easier.

 

[V8Beast]

OOC jpgs are really used as previews by us, so RAWs are really that count. Our shop does a lot of PP, so having high DR and high res that D800 has is advantage. Bring out all contrast and color from the RAWs. But for snapshots at low light, 5D3 jpgs are sufficient. Cheers.

I'm referring to sample raw files between both bodies, not jpegs. Of course more DR is always an advantage, but for some reason the D800's files don't look that great to me.

 

[Wrathwilde]

This is what I'm expecting, for the 5D3 vs D800

Overall Score - 84 (95 - D800)

Color Depth - 24 bits (25.3 - D800)

Dynamic Range - 12.4 Evs (14.4 - D800)

Low-Light ISO - 3200 (2853 - D800)


This is what I'm expecting, for the 1D X vs D4

Overall Score - 86 (89 - D4)

Color Depth - 24 bits (24.7 -D4)

Dynamic Range - 12.6 Evs (13.1 - D4)

Low-Light ISO - 3400 (2965 - D4)

Hope to hell I'm wrong about the Color Depth and DR.

Edited to bring in actual scores for the D800 and D4

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

This is what I'm expecting, realistically, for the 5D3...

Overall Score - 84

Color Depth - 24 bits

Dynamic Range - 12.4 Evs

Low-Light ISO - 3200


This is what I'm expecting, realistically, for the 1D X...

Overall Score - 86

Color Depth - 24 bits

Dynamic Range - 12.6 Evs

Low-Light ISO - 3400

Hope to hell I'm wrong.

I expect Dynamic Range - 11.8 - 5D3 (because quite a few of us have already measured it thus before we measured it I had expected a solid 13-13.5 stops and was horrified by my measurements showing it a fraction worse than my 5D2)
12.5 - 1DX (because I'm foolishly trusting the Canon reps promising it's 1 stop better than the 5D3, so I"m giving it 0.7 stops better ;D we will see, this one is a total guess)

we have D800 - 14.4
D4 - 13.1 I think, something like that

 

[KKCFamilyman]

A non controlled environment. I am coming from a Canon 60d and the noise is terrible above 800 without a speedlite and even then way to noisy. I would hope such a leap to FF and better technology would yield much better results just unsure if the d800 is the way to go or the canon 5d3. So far I have not seen the tremendous noise free 25k iso images in reviews actually I think it drops off at 6400 and continues from there. That's not much of an increase considering they are talking native 25k iso. So I was wondering if nikon was doing the reverse and saying 6400 with a true ceiling of 12800 or at least some very detailed images below 800. I do shoot in all kinds of light so that is why iso is so important. I also need a larger DOF since usually there are more than one person in my shots.

Comparing the 60D to the 5D is like comparing night and day. If the performance jump in all areas is tremendous. hence the reason for you spending $2400 more lol . A 60D is still however more than capable for attaining nice shots if you use a speedlite to compensate for not boosting higher ISO. The better ISO performance of the 5D will only make your job easier in one aspect by giving you more freedom to boost ISO and achieve faster shutter speeds at smaller apertures (thus giving you a deeper DOF or more in focus). In any case, it's still best to use flash if you are able to (i.e. not in a venue where flash is forbidden).

I want a deeper dof than my 60d can offer bringing multiple people in focus and be able to shoot with a faster shutter speed. For example i took a shot tonight indoors with poor lighting of the kids playing on the floor and my speedlite was not handy so i had to shoot 1/15 f4 iso3200 to get them and boy was it noisy you would have thought it was 12,800 and with such a slow speed they hands were blurred from motion. I want to be able to get those shots. So assuming i was using the 5d3 there i would hope to have shot it at 1/60 at least. With an increase in iso of course. I used the 17-55 efs. Yeah i could have used a lower fstop like 2.8 but then it would have been harder to get them in focus as they were not on the same focal distance. Any suggestions as to which camera is right is greatly appreciated.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

A non controlled environment. I am coming from a Canon 60d and the noise is terrible above 800 without a speedlite and even then way to noisy. I would hope such a leap to FF and better technology would yield much better results just unsure if the d800 is the way to go or the canon 5d3. So far I have not seen the tremendous noise free 25k iso images in reviews actually I think it drops off at 6400 and continues from there. That's not much of an increase considering they are talking native 25k iso. So I was wondering if nikon was doing the reverse and saying 6400 with a true ceiling of 12800 or at least some very detailed images below 800. I do shoot in all kinds of light so that is why iso is so important. I also need a larger DOF since usually there are more than one person in my shots.

Comparing the 60D to the 5D is like comparing night and day. If the performance jump in all areas is tremendous. hence the reason for you spending $2400 more lol . A 60D is still however more than capable for attaining nice shots if you use a speedlite to compensate for not boosting higher ISO. The better ISO performance of the 5D will only make your job easier in one aspect by giving you more freedom to boost ISO and achieve faster shutter speeds at smaller apertures (thus giving you a deeper DOF or more in focus). In any case, it's still best to use flash if you are able to (i.e. not in a venue where flash is forbidden).

I want a deeper dof than my 60d can offer bringing multiple people in focus and be able to shoot with a faster shutter speed. For example i took a shot tonight indoors with poor lighting of the kids playing on the floor and my speedlite was not handy so i had to shoot 1/15 f4 iso3200 to get them and boy was it noisy you would have thought it was 12,800 and with such a slow speed they hands were blurred from motion. I want to be able to get those shots. So assuming i was using the 5d3 there i would hope to have shot it at 1/60 at least. With an increase in iso of course. I used the 17-55 efs. Yeah i could have used a lower fstop like 2.8 but then it would have been harder to get them in focus as they were not on the same focal distance. Any suggestions as to which camera is right is greatly appreciated.

it sounds like you will be shooting at ISO6400-12,800?
in that case the D800 probably wont do any better image wise and the images will take up more space and the 5D3 has more fps, then it comes down to whcih has better af under such conditions

 

[takoman46]

A non controlled environment. I am coming from a Canon 60d and the noise is terrible above 800 without a speedlite and even then way to noisy. I would hope such a leap to FF and better technology would yield much better results just unsure if the d800 is the way to go or the canon 5d3. So far I have not seen the tremendous noise free 25k iso images in reviews actually I think it drops off at 6400 and continues from there. That's not much of an increase considering they are talking native 25k iso. So I was wondering if nikon was doing the reverse and saying 6400 with a true ceiling of 12800 or at least some very detailed images below 800. I do shoot in all kinds of light so that is why iso is so important. I also need a larger DOF since usually there are more than one person in my shots.

Comparing the 60D to the 5D is like comparing night and day. If the performance jump in all areas is tremendous. hence the reason for you spending $2400 more lol . A 60D is still however more than capable for attaining nice shots if you use a speedlite to compensate for not boosting higher ISO. The better ISO performance of the 5D will only make your job easier in one aspect by giving you more freedom to boost ISO and achieve faster shutter speeds at smaller apertures (thus giving you a deeper DOF or more in focus). In any case, it's still best to use flash if you are able to (i.e. not in a venue where flash is forbidden).

I want a deeper dof than my 60d can offer bringing multiple people in focus and be able to shoot with a faster shutter speed. For example i took a shot tonight indoors with poor lighting of the kids playing on the floor and my speedlite was not handy so i had to shoot 1/15 f4 iso3200 to get them and boy was it noisy you would have thought it was 12,800 and with such a slow speed they hands were blurred from motion. I want to be able to get those shots. So assuming i was using the 5d3 there i would hope to have shot it at 1/60 at least. With an increase in iso of course. I used the 17-55 efs. Yeah i could have used a lower fstop like 2.8 but then it would have been harder to get them in focus as they were not on the same focal distance. Any suggestions as to which camera is right is greatly appreciated.

Your DOF is controlled by your aperture setting. You will need to shoot at a higher aperture in order to get a large group of people in focus. Think of it this way, the 61pt AF system will help you focus more accurately, not increasing DOF and bringing more subjects into focus at the same time. This is where composition comes into play. You need to set your aperture to allow the appropriate DOF in your shot and position the people in such a way that they all fit into the DOF. The ISO performance will definitely help you achieve faster shutter speeds in available light or for shooting over longer distances that flash won't reach.

Now that I understand what you are trying to do, I think it's pretty safe to say that the 5DmkIII will be your better option. BTW, I just received mine and played with it for a bit. I must say, regardless of specs in reviews and comparisons to the 5DmkII; I instantly realized first hand that the 5DmkIII is a beast of a camera! ;D It's a completely different animal from the mkII (which I also have). So instead of calling the 5DmkIII a merge between a 5DmkII and 7D, it's more like it took the ergonomics of a 7D and merged the 5DmkII and 1DX! ;D So from initial impressions, I am simply impressed! Canon FTW!

 

[Ew]

A non controlled environment. I am coming from a Canon 60d and the noise is terrible above 800 without a speedlite and even then way to noisy. I would hope such a leap to FF and better technology would yield much better results just unsure if the d800 is the way to go or the canon 5d3. So far I have not seen the tremendous noise free 25k iso images in reviews actually I think it drops off at 6400 and continues from there. That's not much of an increase considering they are talking native 25k iso. So I was wondering if nikon was doing the reverse and saying 6400 with a true ceiling of 12800 or at least some very detailed images below 800. I do shoot in all kinds of light so that is why iso is so important. I also need a larger DOF since usually there are more than one person in my shots.

Comparing the 60D to the 5D is like comparing night and day. If the performance jump in all areas is tremendous. hence the reason for you spending $2400 more lol . A 60D is still however more than capable for attaining nice shots if you use a speedlite to compensate for not boosting higher ISO. The better ISO performance of the 5D will only make your job easier in one aspect by giving you more freedom to boost ISO and achieve faster shutter speeds at smaller apertures (thus giving you a deeper DOF or more in focus). In any case, it's still best to use flash if you are able to (i.e. not in a venue where flash is forbidden).

I want a deeper dof than my 60d can offer bringing multiple people in focus and be able to shoot with a faster shutter speed. For example i took a shot tonight indoors with poor lighting of the kids playing on the floor and my speedlite was not handy so i had to shoot 1/15 f4 iso3200 to get them and boy was it noisy you would have thought it was 12,800 and with such a slow speed they hands were blurred from motion. I want to be able to get those shots. So assuming i was using the 5d3 there i would hope to have shot it at 1/60 at least. With an increase in iso of course. I used the 17-55 efs. Yeah i could have used a lower fstop like 2.8 but then it would have been harder to get them in focus as they were not on the same focal distance. Any suggestions as to which camera is right is greatly appreciated.

FPS is definitely key when shooting kids going bonkers inside w/ poor lighting. This is why I went for the 7D vs the mk2. 7D w/ 28 1.8 @ 2.8, 1600 iOS has been the work horse. Looking forward to 5d3 for more ISP and cleaner images.

If you have lots of unpredictable movement in frame, the 5d3 will give you better odds than the d800.

 

[peederj]

I think the iPhone 4S is the best camera for family photography. Because everything else is going to either not be with you when your best moments happen, or distract you so much those moments can't get off the ground.

And I fear the day that objective considerations triumph completely over subjective ones.

 

[KKCFamilyman]

I have the 4s and my wife has the ps 310hs but they just don't compare. Really not even close.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Now that I understand what you are trying to do, I think it's pretty safe to say that the 5DmkIII will be your better option. BTW, I just received mine and played with it for a bit. I must say, regardless of specs in reviews and comparisons to the 5DmkII; I instantly realized first hand that the 5DmkIII is a beast of a camera! ;D It's a completely different animal from the mkII (which I also have). So instead of calling the 5DmkIII a merge between a 5DmkII and 7D, it's more like it took the ergonomics of a 7D and merged the 5DmkII and 1DX! ;D So from initial impressions, I am simply impressed! Canon FTW!

yeah, he seems to want fast, ultra-low light, close range indoor action, I think 5D3 gets the win for him

 

[Aglet]

I want a deeper dof than my 60d..Any suggestions..

Too bad about the seriously low light action requirements cuz when I need more DoF than practical for an SLR I grab a good small-sensor compact like the G12. Lots of DoF at low f # compared to SLR and the thing can output a workable raw file to iso 800+.

 

[Arun]

Without a doubt, D800 with lab proven DR 14+, its ISO 2800+, and a 36mpx detail totally blows its competition away. Heck, it is a $10,000 camera for less than 1/3rd price! No, good photographers will not get worse by using it... on the contrary, bad photographers might gain advantage by its cropping ability and other unmatched features.

Please remember that dxomark scores apply to a image scaled to 8 megapixels.
It is the 8 MP image that has DR 14+, ISO 2800+, etc., not the 36mpx.

 

[RLPhoto]

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

 

[JR]

Please remember that dxomark scores apply to a image scaled to 8 megapixels.
It is the 8 MP image that has DR 14+, ISO 2800+, etc., not the 36mpx.

Really? If true then what is the point of that? No one will shoot and downsize to 8MP. If you are correct I would really like to see DR at its full resolution because this is not a 8MP camera it is a 36MP camera!

All these test are starting to sound like rubbish to me anyway!

 

[straub]

I sincerely don't get the fuss about 12/13/14 stops of DR. From what I've read, both D800 and 5D3 use 14-bit ADCs.

With 14-bit ADCs, anything above ~10 stops is pretty much useless. An EV 10 stops from saturation (value 16383) registers as value 15 (without taking noise into account). That leaves a grand total of 15 luminance values to represent *all* the extra DR above that, and specifically 8 values for the next stop of DR.

Now, if the cameras happen to use 16-bit ADCs, then they've got two extra stops of usable DR.

IMO SNR at 18% is far more important as far as IQ goes.

 

[peederj]

I sincerely don't get the fuss about 12/13/14 stops of DR. From what I've read, both D800 and 5D3 use 14-bit ADCs.

With 14-bit ADCs, anything above ~10 stops is pretty much useless. An EV 10 stops from saturation (value 16383) registers as value 15 (without taking noise into account). That leaves a grand total of 15 luminance values to represent *all* the extra DR above that, and specifically 8 values for the next stop of DR.

Now, if the cameras happen to use 16-bit ADCs, then they've got two extra stops of usable DR.

IMO SNR at 18% is far more important as far as IQ goes.

Your analysis does not jive with my understanding of DSP at all. I am not an expert at camera sensors so I won't provide an alternative explanation, but I do not believe your math is properly applied here practically.

 

[Arun]

Well, the tests are not rubbish, you just have to know how to interpret them.

The problem is how to normalize measurements between sensors of different sizes and different pixel densities. DxOMark has a standard way of doing it.

The thing to remember is that one gains dynamic range, and noise performance as one downsamples. Further, since the DxO ISO score is based on the highest ISO at which 9 eV of dynamic range and a suitable signal-to-noise ratio both exist, and as you downsample you gain both dynamic range and signal-to-noise, the ISO score also grows correspondingly.

For instance, the D800 in the fullframe (FX) mode will have higher DxOMark scores (by a stop or so) than the very same D800 in the crop (DX) mode.

DxOMark could have chosen some other single size, say 16 Megapixels, that changes all of the scores by a fixed amount. But in effect, DxOMark is trying to answer the question, how would cameras compare at a fixed print size.

I think the measure that pixel peepers want is, how would cameras compare if each pixel was printed at a fixed size (so that a high megapixel camera would have a larger printout than a low megapixel one). That is also a legitimate measure to ask for, but that is not what DxOMark provides.