Anyone else delaying lens purchases until we know more about mirrorless plans?

[jd7]

Is it just me or does anyone else find themselves delaying lens purchases until we know more about Canon's prosumer mirrorless plans and timeframes? I'm a serious amateur/hobbyist without the luxury of unlimited funds and will be very interested in moving to mirrorless if Canon offers a superb quality full frame mirrorless in the near future.

Not me. I'm yet to get excited about mirrorless. Apart from anything else, I much prefer OVF to EVF. If I got a mirrorless camera at this point, it would be specifically to have something small and light, so I'd look at APS-C (eg Canon M system or perhaps Fuji) or m4/3. For a full-frame camera, I don't see much size/weight saving once you factor in lenses, so while I will keep an open mind and see what comes out, I'm not expecting to jump on the full-frame mirrorless bandwagon at least in the foreseeable future.

 

[Lurker]

I am, sort of.

I'll be freeing up some cash shortly and when I do I want to upgrade my kit. This will include my first foray in to big whites and FF. I shoot wildlife and birds mostly with some macro, flora and landscape. I am curious about mirrorless for silent shutter and possibly speed. Not as interested in video but it would be a nice bonus for travel.

I've been waiting for years for the opportunity to free this cash and upgrade my kit and now I'm get a little ticked with Canon for doing more to create rumors than to actually introduce new products. I'm waiting to see what they do with mirrorless and DO ST before I buy.

Circumstances are such that I could switch brands easily enough but I doubt I will do that. The reasons I went Canon are still true today. But Nikon does have some some nice bodies and glass - good enough for my purposes.

 

[Antono Refa]

Is it just me or does anyone else find themselves delaying lens purchases until we know more about Canon's prosumer mirrorless plans and timeframes? I'm a serious amateur/hobbyist without the luxury of unlimited funds and will be very interested in moving to mirrorless if Canon offers a superb quality full frame mirrorless in the near future.

Not me, if canon changes the mount and flash system I will just buy sony at this point if I am in the market for a mirrorless camera

And mirrorless would require Canon to change the mount & flash system because...?

There might be reason to change the flange distance (all EF lenses could still be mounted with an extension tube), I see no reason to change the electronic interface. I see no reason to change the flash system.

 

[fullstop]

Yes. i have been holding off buying any additional Canon - or other brand - stills imaging gear for more than 2 years now. Already switched from APS-C / mostly EF-S to FF -> EF lenses (L plus non L) plus additionally EOS M with EF-M lenses as a second, smaller system. Now i am just sitting back until i can consolidate everything on one single, compact mirrorless FF system.

Am waiting to see what FF mirrorless system Canon comes up with. Sony has not convinced me enough to switch so far. One of the main reasons are Sony FE lenses. Not compact enough to make switch worthwhile for me in terms of size/weight and also far too expensive - for no gain in IQ compared to the Canon glass I have.

But more generally: no matter whether Canon goes with EF mount or new "slim mount" for their mirrorless FF system, all currently existing EF lenses will be "legacy". They will hopefully and in all likelihood work as well as they currently do *in live view mode on Canon EOS DSLRs. Especially as far as AF performance goes. Only the very few EF lenses with STM or Nano USM drive are basically "mirrorless enabled". All other existing EF lenses are designed for traditional DSLR Phase-AF operation and will not be able to utilize full [AF] potential of mirrorless cameras with on-sensor (DP) AF system.

Aside from AF I can see a whole range of other areas for improvement/additional functionality possible on future Canon mirrorless FF cameras related to lens-body communication and AI in both cameras and lenses. For example things like improved wireless ETTL which will require more advanced distance information coming from lens all the way to advanced, context sensitive IS systems, advanced user interface functionality (eg think of Samsung's "iFunction" button on all its NX system lenses) and whatever else may be implemented in future native mirrorless Canon lenses. Some of it may be firmware and possibly some existing EF lenses [which ones have a chip built in? certainly not the older ones?] can be firmware upgraded to get some of that functionality. But, who knows? Canon will want to sell us new glass, so they'll make sure we have enough incentive to do so want to do so.

in short: I will definitely not buy a new Canon DSLR. I will also not buy any new EF lens, unless a needed one were to fail or be lost/stolen. Until FF mirrorless is sorted out, I will use what i got - which is not bad for my (amateur) use and needs. Ideally there will be a choice of 3 good mirrorless FF systems - Sony, Canon, Nikon to chose the one best for me from. Hopefully soon, my 5D3 plus EF glass sees less and less use due to size, weight, conspicuosness. And if none of those mirrorless FF systems will get me to a compact, decent IQ, decent UI and affordable (non pro) setup, i may really just settle for a small and cheapo crop sensor system - i could live with EOS M system if need be. Bad for Canon, not for me.

 

[jolyonralph]

There might be reason to change the flange distance (all EF lenses could still be mounted with an extension tube),

That's essentially what EF-M is, it's electronically an updated EF mount with room for an extension tube to attach EF lenses.

There's no way that Canon will create another new mount right now. The choice is between EF mount with standard EF flange distance or using a full-frame capable EF-M mount.

Canon have nothing to lose with using a new mount. If your reason to not buy the mirrorless camera is because of your heavy investment in EF glass then Canon doesn't have to worry, they have you trapped as a customer regardless, and they'll just sell you an updated DLSR every few years instead.

But for those who do want a Canon mirrorless, congratulations, buy some new glass as well! $$$profit$$$

 

[fullstop]

Canon have nothing to lose with using a new mount. If your reason to not buy the mirrorless camera is because of your heavy investment in EF glass then Canon doesn't have to worry, they have you trapped as a customer regardless, and they'll just sell you an updated DLSR every few years instead.

But for those who do want a Canon mirrorless, congratulations, buy some new glass as well! $$$profit$$$

fully agree!

There's no way that Canon will create another new mount right now. The choice is between EF mount with standard EF flange distance or using a full-frame capable EF-M mount.

here I "speculate differently" - I believe Canon will transition from 2 versions of DSLR mount for FF (EF) and APS-C (EF-S) to 2 mounts for mirrorless: APS-C (EF-M) and FF ("EF-X?"). Existing EF mount lenses will be "legacy" on mirrorless anyways and there may even be one or 2 more generations of new EF lenses, until Canon phases out DSLRs. So multi-year transition period with 4 mounts: EF-S and EF on way out, EF-M here already, "EF-X?" on way in.

I do expect maximum possible cross-compatibility between those mounts - mechanical and electronic, within the bounds of the different image circles - as with EF / EF-S. But [only] new EF-X lenses will be able to fully utilize future FF mirrorless potential - eg advanced information flow lens-body, AI in body and lenses enabling unprecedented levels of context-sensitive tracking AF performance at unprecendented fps rates ... basically a much more advanced version of what is currently called "AI Autofocus mode [AIAF]" on Canon EOS DSLRs [but hardly used by anyone for lack of trust in the systems decisions] = more deserving of the "artificial INTELLIGENCE" moniker. Plus potential upgrades to functionality of user interface [freely programmable button/s [eg similar to Samsung NX lenses with "iButton"] and or lens rings ... eg choose preferred turn direction for focus ring and zoom yourself or the speed of change when turning ring, and many more we may be surprised by when we see it first time.

 

[dak723]

There might be reason to change the flange distance (all EF lenses could still be mounted with an extension tube),

That's essentially what EF-M is, it's electronically an updated EF mount with room for an extension tube to attach EF lenses.

There's no way that Canon will create another new mount right now. The choice is between EF mount with standard EF flange distance or using a full-frame capable EF-M mount.

Canon have nothing to lose with using a new mount. If your reason to not buy the mirrorless camera is because of your heavy investment in EF glass then Canon doesn't have to worry, they have you trapped as a customer regardless, and they'll just sell you an updated DLSR every few years instead.

But for those who do want a Canon mirrorless, congratulations, buy some new glass as well! $$$profit$$$

While your logic may be true for some - it is not true for others like myself.

Canon does not have me trapped into buying a new DSLR every few years because once having tried mirrorless, I am not going to buy a DSLR every few years or ever again. My next camera will be mirrorless.

If I need to buy new lenses as well as a new camera, then I can choose any brand. I am essentially starting from scratch so all brands are now equal.

For folks like me on a limited budget, the major advantage of keeping the EF mount on a reasonably sized body is that I can buy used Canon lenses cheap. I already have a 28-105mm lens that I got for $85 US. I have tons more choices if the new Canon mirrorless is EF mount. In all likelihood, I could not afford to buy both a new camera and new lenses. And I would guess that the existing EF-M lenses that I currently have do not have a wide enough image circle for FF. That means any new EF-M mount lenses for FF will have to have a new designation - essentially as if it was a new mount.

 

[ahsanford]

Canon have nothing to lose with using a new mount. If your reason to not buy the mirrorless camera is because of your heavy investment in EF glass then Canon doesn't have to worry, they have you trapped as a customer regardless, and they'll just sell you an updated DLSR every few years instead.

I agree that Canon has nothing to lose with a new mount, if they don't over-commit to it.*

Everything about that passage you wrote above implies you think Canon is about to pull a Sony here and put all their eggs in a new mount's basket. Never going to happen b/c Canon is in a completely different situation than Sony.

Trapped EF customers are not on the hook to buy DSLRs in the future, b/c their EF will work natively with the new mirrorless system. Sony has adaptors for A-mount of course, but didn't play it up because they did put all their eggs in the E-mount basket. Canon will never do this -- they will agressively push adaptor use b/c that's where all the users are, where the lenses are, etc.

You do realize there's a good chance Canon won't embark on rebuilding EF in a smaller mount, right? The new mount might just get a very small number critical lenses that let the size savings pop, and for everything else you have an adaptor. *Or perhaps they do want to climb Mt. Crazy and rebuild the heart of EF -- maybe not the really niche stuff or the superwhites, but everything else -- that will take a good 10 years to pull off.

Either way, we're all using adaptors for a very long time. And in this case where they've over-committed to the mount, they are on the hook to develop 2x the lenses (one for EF, one for the new mount) each time, which hurts their profitability from lower production volumes of each lens.

- A

 

[YuengLinger]

I'm holding off my lens purchases until Canon makes a 50mm 1.2L II.

 

[sanj]

Personally mirrorless cameras do not excite me one bit and I have not the slightest desire to even want one, I may be old school but all this mirrorless hype and sensationalizing kind of reminds me of the disco phenomenon.

Yes agree. You are old school.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I would not consider holding off a lens purchase just because a mirrorless version might one day be available. That availability would likely be 10 or more years in the future at best.
Canon continues to release new EF models, and its possible that there will never be "L" versions of a mirrorless lens.
As to the "M" mount, Canon has previously stated that it would not work for mirrorless. They might change their mind, but its unlikely. It would cause lots of confusion. We may see a different version of the EF mount that will only mount the new mirrorless lenses and the electrical contacts will be located differently as well.

 

[fullstop]

You do realize there's a good chance Canon won't embark on rebuilding EF in a smaller mount, right? The new mount might just get a very small number critical lenses that let the size savings pop, and for everything else you have an adaptor.

I would be perfectly fine with that as well. 90% of the time all i need is a small kit with moderately fast lenses in the most frequently used focal length range - 3x f/2.0-2.8 primes and/or 3x f/4 zooms. The other 10% are planned shoots (eg studio, architecture) and/or anything i use a tripod for, then extra size/weight of little adapter in addition to regular EF-lens does not matter at all.

But i'd like to everything with only one FF-sensored camera body - if fitting Canon lenses come in 2 different mounts, no problem for me. Small ones will mount natively and large lenses need a simple little adapter - where's the problem? And while my usage scenario may differ from all/many/some here on this forum as well as from most pro's needs, I think it is fairly representative for a really large portion of enthusiasts/amateurs.

 

[Durf]

I would not consider holding off a lens purchase just because a mirrorless version might one day be available. That availability would likely be 10 or more years in the future at best.
Canon continues to release new EF models, and its possible that there will never be "L" versions of a mirrorless lens.
As to the "M" mount, Canon has previously stated that it would not work for mirrorless. They might change their mind, but its unlikely. It would cause lots of confusion. We may see a different version of the EF mount that will only mount the new mirrorless lenses and the electrical contacts will be located differently as well.

I agree it'll be several years.....I really don't think Canon is losing sleep over trying to be competitive with Sony and others when it comes to making a mirrorless FF camera. Their M50 is a good example of their mindset when it comes to mirrorless.

 

[Hector1970]

Personally I think the cameras we have already are very very good.
They are also very robust.
The current EF L glass is of a great standard and will perform great for years to come.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy new EF glass.

I'd be more cautious about buying a camera until Canon show their hand on mirrorless.
I'm not sure will Canon will do.
They may create an EF-M equivalent for full frame.
ie: A camera that doesn't appear on paper to be all that exciting but is a reasonably well functioning Full Frame.

A bold move would be to produce a 1DX III mirrorless with something like 20FPS 24MP and equal focusing system to a 1 DX II whether or not an adapter is required to use EF glass.

 

[BeenThere]

If enough users slow their EF lens purchases then Canon will get the message that they need to state their future mount policy sooner rather than later. Vote with your wallet! Ok, not going to happen en mass. I’ll continue to buy for my current bodies.

 

[fullstop]

If enough users slow their EF lens purchases then Canon will get the message that they need to state their future mount policy sooner rather than later. Vote with your wallet! Ok, not going to happen en mass.

it is happening.

not only (canon) DSLR sales are strongly declining (units) but also DSLR lenses (units). Unfortunately there is no specific data publicly available, but i think for Canon lens sales: EF-M doing well, EF-S in strong decline, EF in decline.

Would I not be holding out for mirrorless FF but were relegated to DSLRs for many years to come, I would already have bought Canon EF 16-35/4 or 14-24 for sure and be interested to buy 85/1.4 and 24-105/4 - well, scratch that - not the Mk. II. ;D

Now that I am holding out until i can buy myself a decent, compact FF MILC - preferably from Canon - along with some nice, "pancakey" or very compact primes eg. EF-X 14/2.8, 24/2.0, 35/1.8, 85/2.4, 100/2.8 or a very compact and good EF-X 14-24/4.0 or 16-35/4 as well as a more compact (and optically great) EF-X 24-85/4.0 or 24-105/4.0 IS STM .... up to Canon, whether they want my money or not.

But according to conventional CR forum wisdom, I am the only person on earth who would ever buy those products, so they won't ever come. There is so many more people waiting for EF 600/4 Mk. III and EF 800/5.6 Mk II, so clever Canon is putting their resources and focus on those. ;D

 

[YuengLinger]

Is anybody else falling asleep going around and around this topic?

 

[ahsanford]

Is anybody else falling asleep going around and around this topic?

On Page 3? It's a bit early for that.

We debate the FF mirrorless mount until we are blue in the face, sure, but I think a lens buying decision tree for those waiting for this new mount to (possibly) arrive is actually an interesting exercise.

Discuss on!

- A

 

[slclick]

I'm good on all my M glass, no matter what they come out with...well maybe an EF-M 84 1.x, I'd jump on, but for FF, I'm still buying EF without reservation.

 

[ahsanford]

One important question I'd like to poll this group on: if it's a thin mount + adaptor for FF mirrorless, will the new adaptor accept EF-S lenses for full-frame?

I'd assume output would have to be in crop mode (unless you like that 'ship porthole' sort of view).

I'm assuming your answers are likely:

[list type=decimal]
[*]Duh, yes. It has to accept crop b/c I am convinced FF mirrorless mount is indeed just EOS-M, and that adaptor already exists and we know it takes EF-S.
[*]Yes. Regardless of whether the new mount is EF-M or something different, the adaptor will work with EF-S lenses.
[*]No. Canon enjoys the upcharge of folks migrating from crop to FF with SLRs and wants to continue that here. They want to sell EF (or new FF mirrorless) lenses and will block EF-S from working with the adaptor somehow.
[/list]

...but I could be wrong. Thoughts? My money's on (2) above.

- A