Anyone else interested in 1Dx M2 with APS-c sensor?

[RGF]

I like the feel and function of the 1D bodies. Yes they are large and heavy but for the most part I can live with the size.

I would like to see Canon place an APS-c Sensor in a 1Dx M2 body. Best AF possible, best ergonomics, S/N, ...

Would anyone else be interested in this. Hopefully the price would not be $6,000.

 

[j-nord]

I also rather see the 7Diii at around $2k than a 1Dxii w/crop. I doubt there is a market for a $6k-ish crop that can't deliver the IQ of the FF version. I think most will agree, if you can afford the size, weight, and cost of the 1D series, you can afford the glass necessary to fill the frame. I just don't see it.

 

[Deleted member 7828]

Perhaps APS-H (1.3x) would be a good compromise between reach and higher quality. APS-C sensor quality, while not bad, really isn't worth more (IMO) than about $2K even with all the bells and whistles.

So in short - I'd say yes to 1.3x but no to 1.6x.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I liked APS- as a compromise with FF, but with the 7D MK II, there would be no reason for me to spend $4K or whatever it would cost.

 

[tphillips63]

I think it would be great but I doubt the demand is there or they would make it.
Maybe in the future the demand will increase.
Still I don't like the feel of a mounted grip so I'd like one but not at 4000USD

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

If sales of Nikon D500 is a resounding success, will shows if there is demand for an APS-C camera truly PRO.

I do not think many people would be willing to pay more than $ 2,000 for an APS-C camera capable of AF super top, and 14 frames per second.

 

[TexPhoto]

Perhaps APS-H (1.3x) would be a good compromise between reach and higher quality. APS-C sensor quality, while not bad, really isn't worth more (IMO) than about $2K even with all the bells and whistles.

So in short - I'd say yes to 1.3x but no to 1.6x.

APS-H was awesome. The 1D mark IV is a great camera that has held up well love the years. My favorite aspect was that Canon crop lenses would not mount, but 3rd party crop lenses like the Tokina 11-16 f2.8 worked great! Felt like you were getting away with something.

As long as we are putting a small sensor in a big camera, let's think outside the box. How about a rolling shutter like a movie camera and maybe 30fps?

 

[pwp]

Of course it's never going to happen, but while we're in Dreamland, let's make it APS-H.

-pw

 

[axtstern]

Not sure if I'm fully qualified to answer as I never had a digital APS H camera but...
15 years ago I was shooting with the analog Canon EOS SLR called IX. You could choose between APS H, C and W. Of course that was only emulated as it always was the standard crop of space on a fil you used but still you had your choice and the viewfinder did adapt.

Unlike on the EOS 1 IV you did not gain advantages in mirror slapping, shutter or processing speed. You were also not tempted with EF-S glass as it did not exist at that time.

My experinece from that time however was to almost never change to APS H. Like with a motorcycle with a sidecar you gain some advantage in very special situations but you also get all disadvantages of a car and a bike joined up in one chassis.

So yes I would like a high end crop. High end in regards to be able to beat the 7DII in its sport abilities but with the versatility of a 1D especialy with the 1D form factor. Just please let it be a standard APS capable of using the lightweight lenses rather the APS H compromise.

 

[9VIII]

What I really want is an SL1 with an integrated grip. Make a sports version and a high MP portrait version, both applications use the grip.

I know the 760D with battery grip is getting close, but I want it slimmed down even more, using an integrated battery grip should shave at least half an inch off the vertical size.

 

[eml58]

For quite a while my main stay cameras were the 1Ds Mk III & the 1D Mk IV, both great Cameras, I still own the 1DsMk III sold the 1D Mk IV.

Smartest thing Canon did was combining these Cameras into the 1Dx (my opinion only), I no longer use the 1Ds Mk III as I have the 5DsR, the APS 'H' of the 1D Mk IV I sometimes miss, but not that much, nothing like a FF sensor, unless it's a MF sensor.

 

[ahsanford]

A 1DX II where the only change is to a crop sensor? Will never happen without major deliberate nerfing/limitation of that rig, and I'll tell you why.

For a long time, the 1D brand had to have features that the 5D brand's users would drool for. Let's take spot metering at any AF point or perhaps a dedicated AF/metering module, for example. Were they to put this functionality into a new 5D model, it could (in some small way) threaten 1D sales and the premium that it asks for.

Now extend this analogy to the 7D brand. For this camp of shooters, the killer apps / features would be an integral grip, the next-gen of tracking AF, expanded teleconverter use and 16 fps. Were Canon to offer this rig even at the same price as the 1DX II, they'd lose money on people not needing as much reach, which would hurt their supertele lens sales.

Now, would they stuff a crop sensor into 1DX II body and deliberately nerf it, perhaps capping at 10-12 fps, sticking the current 7D2 AF module in there, etc.? Possibly, sure, but I'd peg it as unlikely.

But I still think there is a far larger market (and money to be made) by Canon putting a high res / low fps setup into a 1D body a la the old 1Ds line. Right now prior 1Ds owners have a choice of a 1D feature set or a 50 MP sensor. Canon's leaving a ton of money on the table with each studio or landscape photographer buying a 5DS instead of a pricier 1D rig with that same sensor in it.

- A

 

[j-nord]

But I still think there is a far larger market (and money to be made) by Canon putting a high res / low fps setup into a 1D body a la the old 1Ds line. Right now prior 1Ds owners have a choice of a 1D feature set or a 50 MP sensor. Canon's leaving a ton of money on the table with each studio or landscape photographer buying a 5DS instead of a pricier 1D rig with that same sensor in it.

- A

I completely agree, I see a much bigger market for a very high m-pix but much slower fps 1D series body. The question is, would canon run 2 tangent high m-pix FF lines (5Ds and 1Ds)?

 

[ahsanford]

I completely agree, I see a much bigger market for a very high m-pix but much slower fps 1D series body. The question is, would canon run 2 tangent high m-pix FF lines (5Ds and 1Ds)?

I think they s--- the bed with the 5DS decision making.

• They put out a first / best-in-class offering (on one spec: resolution) into a 2nd tier product. Premium money has been left on the table.
  
  
  
• They've built a market expectation that the 5D line will have a high MP rig on a go-forward basis. It's hard to push something upmarket once it's been accomplished downmarket.
  
  
• Course correcting with a newhigh MP 1D body now may not sell well, as people pining for high res may have just spent their money on a 5DS or two. 50 MP may not be enough to sell that unit now.
  
  
• They made their 5DS framerate goal a shade too high and had to put a second DIGIC chip in there to do it, which is typically reserved for 1D rigs. To some extent, this limits Canon's ability to differentiate a future sexy 1D high res rig as that card has already been played on the 5DS, i.e. if they went with one chip in the 5DS and said "Here's a 50 MP x 2.5-3 fps rig for you resolutionatics, have at it!", a follow-up with 50 MP x 5-6 fps in the 1D form factor would have an easier time distinguishing itself as a more premium option.
  

I'm no enemy of the 5DS by any stretch, but I think that unleashing 50 MP with nearly the 1DX I's throughput in the middle the FF space (instead of the top of it) will create problems for Canon as time goes on.

But who knows -- they may be printing money from all the enthusiast resolution-obsessives or wedding photogs that stayed with them instead of going to a D810 for more pixels. I have faith that Canon made this offering with everything thought through, but I still scratch my head on this one a bit.

- A

 

[Mikehit]

Are they leaving money on the table?

Way before the Canon 5D3 came out I was speaking to a shop owner in Vancouver who mentioned the plans to scrap the APS-H range so they could rationalise their sensors and have only 2 platforms to worry about. And thta came to pass.
Similarly the broad strategy was for a rugged sports/outdoor camera (1Dx) and a lighter version that was not only studio but also some capability of the 1Dx. A FF '1Dx-lite' as he put it. And that pretty much came out.

I mention that only because of the apparent rationalisation of lines (OK, I know the 6D and the 5DS came out since....) so although it makes sense for us mere mortals that some people would buy a high-MP 1Dx they may not see the cost-benefit at corporate level.

The 7D2 was delayed and eventually came out 5 years after the MkI and all rumours suggested they would rather not release a model than release a half-assed one. Maybe the high-MP 1Dx was on the cards but in early testing it may have compromised other functions unacceptably - I am sure they have consulted many professionals and from reviews so far the image quality is already fantastic and higher MPs is low down the list.

 

[ahsanford]

Maybe the high-MP 1Dx was on the cards but in early testing it may have compromised other functions unacceptably - I am sure they have consulted many professionals and from reviews so far the image quality is already fantastic and higher MPs is low down the list.

Entirely fair. It's also possible that the higher end folks asking for more resolution just moved up to medium format to get it.

- A

 

[Mikehit]

Entirely fair. It's also possible that the higher end folks asking for more resolution just moved up to medium format to get it.

- A

Unless I misunderstood your comment, I would say that if they went to MF instead of choosing the 5DSr, then it means having a high MP 1Dx2 would not have been sufficient to keep them with Canon anyway. People buy the 1Dx2 primarily for AF speed, framerate and whole bag of other tricks. MF does not come close on any of those so again there is no market overlap for Canon to address.

 

[ahsanford]

Entirely fair. It's also possible that the higher end folks asking for more resolution just moved up to medium format to get it.

- A

Unless I misunderstood your comment, I would say that if they went to MF instead of choosing the 5DSr, then it means having a high MP 1Dx2 would not have been sufficient to keep them with Canon anyway. People buy the 1Dx2 primarily for AF speed, framerate and whole bag of other tricks. MF does not come close on any of those so again there is no market overlap for Canon to address.

Remember the old split Canon had years ago?

1D line: APS-H + speed
1Ds line: FF + highest resolution

They then put out the 1DX as the 'fusion' / crossover product for both camps. 1D4 people bought into the 1DX and the 1Ds people were only lukewarm to it. Now, 4 years later, the 1DX II seems to be hitting all cylinders for the action crowd and 1Ds folks feel a bit abandoned on the detail front.

I'm saying folks who want high-res in a 1D feature set for non-action / framerate reasons (i.e. they like the 1D for it's metering, integral grip, build quality, etc.). So a medium format rig might be an option for them if Canon won't give them what they want.

Old 1Ds studio and landscape folks have three options:

• Enjoy the 1DX or 1DX II and wish you had more pixels
• Enjoy the 5DS and wish you had the 1D feature set
• Go medium format to cover your high detail needs
• Bounce to Nikon

As the third and fourth options are not particularly reasonable ones (some may entertain an MF rig), I contend that there are a number of 1Ds owners who would pony up $6-7k on the spot for a 50 MP FF sensor sitting in a 1DX II body (obviously at a lower framerate).

- A

 

[romanr74]

I like the feel and function of the 1D bodies. Yes they are large and heavy but for the most part I can live with the size.

I would like to see Canon place an APS-c Sensor in a 1Dx M2 body. Best AF possible, best ergonomics, S/N, ...

Would anyone else be interested in this. Hopefully the price would not be $6,000.

Can someone explain me why on earth you would even want that????

 

[ahsanford]

I like the feel and function of the 1D bodies. Yes they are large and heavy but for the most part I can live with the size.

I would like to see Canon place an APS-c Sensor in a 1Dx M2 body. Best AF possible, best ergonomics, S/N, ...

Would anyone else be interested in this. Hopefully the price would not be $6,000.

Can someone explain me why on earth you would even want that????

Three reasons:

1) Reach
2) Reach
3) Reach

Seriously, though, you can spin APS-C and reach two principal ways (if you have good light): you can go longer with the big superwhites you already own, or you can get as far as you used to with FF with a less expensive and less heavy/large superteles.

- A