Appreciated Simple Request from 5DIV Owners

[Josh Denver]

Could any 5D4 please kindly post frame grabes
from the camera's video mode?

Watching comppressed YT is not acceptable for me.


The frame grabs should be as following:


-A wide lens (11 to 35mm) at infinity or near
infinity from your window. Not looking for a
pretty image here! Follow the following list please to give us the best
quality:

-Set camera to 1080p 24p ALL-I

-Highlight tone priority OFF

-Shadow optimizer OFF

-Picture style:

Neutral,

Sharpness -4 Contrast -4 Saturation(yes) -4 Color tone at middle

-exposed to the highlights, as in no clipped
highlights. Up your shutter as wanted to get to
the point juuuuust after clipping is gone and
shoot a second.

Export as JPEG frame and upload Here/Imgur/flickr (imgur preferred)

(don't worry about JPEG being compressed, video
is WAY more compressed so it's actualy an
upscale in format quality)

These settings just insure best quality.

It sounds like a lot to ask but it's really just shoot a second off your window and upload a frame.




If you have the time and are kind enough. Do at
the same time 1080p 60p, 720p 120p, 4K 24p.


That would be HUGELY helping for me on
deciding.


to buy the camera. Thanks, Josh,

 

[zim]

That's an interesting request, I hope you get a taker.
That's the sort of thing I'd hope reviews would have but they seem to be fixated in worst case scenarios and edge cases mostly.

 

[Josh Denver]

EXACTLY!

As someone who uses many cameras including the mk III, C100/II and C300, Sony a7s/r/ GH4/ I WANT TO SEE THE IMAGE OF THE DAMN THING. not hear you talk about if it's numerical 1.64896x crop or 1.64895x, or that it ''has'' rolling shutter (DUH!), to reviewers: we want to see and assess the image compared to the MK III.

Even when a site uploades a clip, it's 1- on Compressed YT/Vimeo. 2- It's shallow DOF (No way to see any IQ information) 3- It's Shot at something entirely moronic like landscape picture style with default settings.

I appreciate the time it takes them but, come on, only a wide seen, a single JPEG grab (Saves uploader and downloader's time), will tell me the resolution, the colour, the minimum added sharpening Canon put at zero with this model (none on t3i and +1 on t4i for example), the dynamic range and grading lattitude, the colours, see moire, see aliasing, banding noise pattern, basically tell me how the image is.

And I need to know the image before I go out and buy one. (It's just like having no RAW samples at all photography people, just compressed JPEGs edited differently)

 

[davidj]

I too would be interested in seeing this.

 

[dak723]

Not sure where you live or what store options you have, but why not buy one, test it to your hearts content, and then return it if isn't to your liking. Many stores offer no-hassle returns including internet options.

 

[LordofTackle]

Not sure where you live or what store options you have, but why not buy one, test it to your hearts content, and then return it if isn't to your liking. Many stores offer no-hassle returns including internet options.

Or, depending where you live and what options you havem just go ahead an rent it! Try it out for a weekend. This will also give you the opportunity to test all the other features of the camera.

 

[Christianstella]

Josh,

I'll try to do this for you when the sun comes up here. Spoiler alert: it isn't going to be very good. I ran basically that exact test of settings on the camera on day 1... shooting a tree and brick wall. Tree was mushy and brick wall was a mess of moire.

Honestly, it looks like 1080p from the 5D 2. Still lacking true 1080p detail. I say 5D 2 because the 3 controlled moire better (but was somehow even softer). 1080p has been completely stagnant for 2 generations now and it's a bummer, as I really love the full frame with wide angle look.

I upgraded to the mk iv because I make my living off food photography. However, I shot a whole feature on the 5D2 in 2012 called The Battery. It played 60 film festivals, won a ton of awards, topped a bunch of best-of the year lists for horror, and got a release from many distributors all over the world. It was one of the true 5D success stories. A $6,000 movie that even ended up on the shelf of every Wal-Mart.

I've got every reason to appreciate the 5D, but it is simply stagnant. I'd highly suggest you look into a used C100 mk 1 with a Ninja external recorder. For 1080p you can get that for about $1,000 less than the 5D and the picture is sharp as a tack, with great (compared to the 5D) dynamic range. I'm shooting a feature on it next month.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Josh,

I'll try to do this for you when the sun comes up here. Spoiler alert: it isn't going to be very good. I ran basically that exact test of settings on the camera on day 1... shooting a tree and brick wall. Tree was mushy and brick wall was a mess of moire.

Honestly, it looks like 1080p from the 5D 2. Still lacking true 1080p detail. I say 5D 2 because the 3 controlled moire better (but was somehow even softer). 1080p has been completely stagnant for 2 generations now and it's a bummer, as I really love the full frame with wide angle look.

I upgraded to the mk iv because I make my living off food photography. However, I shot a whole feature on the 5D2 in 2012 called The Battery. It played 60 film festivals, won a ton of awards, topped a bunch of best-of the year lists for horror, and got a release from many distributors all over the world. It was one of the true 5D success stories. A $6,000 movie that even ended up on the shelf of every Wal-Mart.

I've got every reason to appreciate the 5D, but it is simply stagnant. I'd highly suggest you look into a used C100 mk 1 with a Ninja external recorder. For 1080p you can get that for about $1,000 less than the 5D and the picture is sharp as a tack, with great (compared to the 5D) dynamic range. I'm shooting a feature on it next month.

Good feedback! If you're so inclined continue with your insights that can help those of us that are new to DSLR video. Many of us are not experienced enough or that focused on video to want to go for a separate video camera. What about the suggestion of 4K output as 2K?

I imagine the same criticism applies to the 1DX II.

Jack

 

[Josh Denver]

The 1DXII 4k is a wonderfull image. One of the best out there. Shown at glorious 4K or oversampled to 1080p.

I just want to make sure this is the same. In terms in lack of moire/aliasing, lack of compression artefacts, robust colours that take heavy grading, etc

So please I want a 5DIV 4K Frame grab at neutral with sharpness and contrast all the way down. Just to get an impression of how it looks (the purpose of the thread)

You can even take the JPEG frame grab in-camera and post it here and it will represesnt the quality 100% correctly as it records in motion jpeg. Brick wall and a face would be great!

 

[Christianstella]

Josh, sorry for the delay. Attached are some samples at full size. I went through and picked the clearest frames. Tried to show a good mix of highlights and shadows, grass, tree, and a brick wall. Shot with a Sigma ART 24-35 f/2 at 24mm... it is a very, very sharp lens. Focus was on the brick wall on the right to try to create moire.

Here is the GOOD news. The moire and aliasing I was seeing was just the sharpening settings. Moire was pretty much non-existent in these samples. The bad news is that it is very mushy. I'm just not impressed at all. The 4K looks like it may BARELY resolve details as well as my c100 at 1080p, but with worse dynamic range.

For an added bonus, I've included a final graded shot from my old movie shot on the 5D2. This screenshot was taken from a compressed source (I didn't want to pull out the hard drives). It was originally shot with similar settings as this 5D4 test (neutral with most settings dialed down). There was film grain added in post to try to dither away some of that mushy, plastic look. After 2 camera generations, I'm just not seeing much of a difference at 1080p in the 5D4 today.

For another bonus, I've included a screen grab from something I shot on the c100 in C-Log with the Atomos Ninja 2 external recorder. Look for the detail in his beard hairs, as well as nothing even coming close to the far sides of the histogram.

I just see no point in shooting 4K if that 4K (even once downscaled) doesn't look as good as 1080 on my c100 mk 1.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Josh, sorry for the delay. Attached are some samples at full size. I went through and picked the clearest frames. Tried to show a good mix of highlights and shadows, grass, tree, and a brick wall. Shot with a Sigma ART 24-35 f/2 at 24mm... it is a very, very sharp lens. Focus was on the brick wall on the right to try to create moire.

Here is the GOOD news. The moire and aliasing I was seeing was just the sharpening settings. Moire was pretty much non-existent in these samples. The bad news is that it is very mushy. I'm just not impressed at all. The 4K looks like it may BARELY resolve details as well as my c100 at 1080p, but with worse dynamic range.

For an added bonus, I've included a final graded shot from my old movie shot on the 5D2. This screenshot was taken from a compressed source (I didn't want to pull out the hard drives). It was originally shot with similar settings as this 5D4 test (neutral with most settings dialed down). There was film grain added in post to try to dither away some of that mushy, plastic look. After 2 camera generations, I'm just not seeing much of a difference at 1080p in the 5D4 today.

For another bonus, I've included a screen grab from something I shot on the c100 in C-Log with the Atomos Ninja 2 external recorder. Look for the detail in his beard hairs, as well as nothing even coming close to the far sides of the histogram.

I just see no point in shooting 4K if that 4K (even once downscaled) doesn't look as good as 1080 on my c100 mk 1.

Really good feedback here. Thanks for the effort! I'm interested in hearing more in contrast to the 1DX II.

Jack

 

[Christianstella]

On another note, none of the 60 film festivals we were in, or the 20 distributors that released our movie in different countries ever asked for 4K. Of the 7 countries that released on disc, only 2 even released on bluray, one of those being the US, where only the standard DVD was available in stores. 80% of all digital sales/rentals were on iTunes, which does not offer 4K either.

Obviously 4K is exploding in the TV world right now though and it's best to future-proof your work. The good news for now, at an indie level, is that the look of cult classics tend to just add to their legacy. Our movie The Battery kind of has that status. Before the major distribution round (but after the film festivals) I actually wanted to take out a loan to re-mix the audio professionally (I had done it before). However, the distributors advised me not to do that. It was a $6,000 movie and they didn't want me to mess with the "charm" that comes along with that.

 

[Josh Denver]

The image I see is very very encouraging. Looks identical to the 1DXII and 1DC.

The terms resolution and sharpness are commonly confused. The 4K image I see here is incredibly detailed,

BUT does not have any edge enhancement, sharpening, it is indeed soft.

Try and apply a sharpening filter in your video editor and you'll see that Sony/Panasonic 4K POP that you're after.

If you grade Red 6K files or Arri 2.8k files they are very soft. Canon takes the same approach. Which gives it a widely common misconception of being less that 4K.

Of course when you downscale it, sharpen it, it has 100% 1080p lines of resolution. Just like the C100, which also takes a 4K image and downscales it to 1080p.

I am quite sure your observations are about sharpness settings in the C100. Out of the box the C100 does have quite high sharpness setting (a good sharpening algorithm) and straight of the box the 5D has a high sharpnss setting (bad algorithm). If you shoot both at at zero sharpness (how they should be shot to get highest aliasing performance) you'll get the same C100 crispiness.

The C100 has 12 stops of DR, this is like all Canon Neutral PS, about 10. This is due to c-log. This makes the C100 a better HD camera while the 5D does 4K and slowmotion and of course 30mp stills.


Any more 4K grabs are reaaaally appreciated.