Are EOS cameras perfect? Which design changes would you implement?

[dropslash]

It's funny, I just wrote up an entire blog post about this very subject as a struggle to decide on a solid, mid-range, prosumer DSLR to replace my aging 60D.

http://dropslash.com/journal/2014/03/fire-the-canons/

It's not so much design changes that Canon really needs to get under control, it's their entire approach to the DSLR product line. They have been so wildly inconsistent and (pardon the pun) unfocused as of late that it's impossible to suss out a clear upgrade path through their offerings. They keep piling onto the low-end, completely cannibalizing their own offerings while not committing any kind of effort to the midrange, then ridiculously out-pricing the high-end next step with current the pro lineup.

There needs to be some serious thought given to direction and focus moving forward. i.e.

• DO redefine each consumer field, Entry, Prosumer, Professional to include 3 main bodies with room for a niche/outlier so they make sense for consumers, novice and experienced alike. Leave room for growth as bodies get discontinued and new ones are introduced.
• DO identify clear, defined, value for each body along a logical path for upgrading, with logical price points, both within the field and to another field.
• DO be innovative and future forward with hardware while continuing to add value via firmware.
• DO confidently price each body in line with the previous guidelines.
• DO NOT impose artificial restrictions and limitations, especially on hardware, out of unfounded upgrade cannibalization fears.
• DO NOT release constant minor iterative hardware updates.

A better lineup might look like:
Prices listed as – Current (New)

Entry Level: (APS-C)
Wifi, Touch screens, 14-18mp, up to 5FPS, 3in screen, built in flash, full HD video, etc
[list type=decimal]
[*]T5 – $549.99 ($449.99) – Basic Entry Level.
[*]SL1 – $749.99 ($549.99) – Mid-Range Entry Level, small size.
[*]T5i – $849.99 ($649.99) – Advanced Entry Level. The step below Prosumer.
[*]EOS M – $599.99 ($399.99) – Mid-Range Entry Level, mirrorless, different lens system.
[/list]

Prosumer: (APS/-C)
Wifi, GPS, dual card, 18-24mp, 5+FPS, 3+in screen, 1/8000, 19+ AF points, advanced construction, etc
[list type=decimal]
[*]70D – $1199.99 ($1199.99) – Basic Prosumer APS-C. Logical upgrade from T5i.
[*]7D Mk.II – N/A ($1599.99) – Advanced Prosumer APS-C. Great 2nd body for Pros.
[*]6D Mk.II – N/A ($1899.99) – Advanced Prosumer APS. Great 2nd body for Pros.
[*]APS Mirrorless – N/A ($1499.99) – Mid-Range Prosumer APS, mirrorless.
[/list]
Professional: (APS)
Dual card, 18-34+mp, 6+ FPS, premium construction, serious hardware, etc
[list type=decimal]
[*]5D Mk.III – $3499.99 ($2799.99) – Primary APS Body, logical upgrade from 6D Mk.II.
[*]Large MP Studio N/A – ($3499.99) – Premier Studio APS Body.
[*]1D-X – $6799.99 ($5899.99) – Premier Field APS Body.
[*]1D-C – $11,999 ($9999.99) – 4K HDSLR
[/list]

There's room for adaptation and growth while still providing a clear path through each line. Even varying from this structure, it's better than the complete disaster they have on their hands right now.

 

[sdsr]

[....]

There's room for adaptation and growth while still providing a clear path through each line. Even varying from this structure, it's better than the complete disaster they have on their hands right now.

Whatever else one may think about Canon's line-up, in light of its commercial success compared to its competition your use of the phrase "complete disaster" seems a tad idiosyncratic.

 

[dropslash]

Whatever else one may think about Canon's line-up, in light of its commercial success compared to its competition your use of the phrase "complete disaster" seems a tad idiosyncratic.

That's fair. I mean, most of this is based on personal frustrations with the lack of cohesiveness in the DSLR lineup. I think it's pretty objectively a mess, but "complete disaster" is a bit of a reach.

I also personally think we're in the beginning phases of seeing that success wither under the constant attacks and innovations from more nimble camera systems. Canon is all over the place right now with no real coherent DSLR narrative and that is going to hurt, a lot, if it continues.

 

[wickidwombat]

I disagree on your statement that the 6D is a great 2nd body for pros
if you shoot a 1D or 5D3 then the 6D ergonimics and AF make it a total non starter
i notice you put in some mythical cameras in the list including a 6DII not really sure why you did this

if the 6D ergonomics and af a fine for a particular persons pro use then they would be far better served having 2 6D bodies rather than mixing the egonomics up as they are vastly different having a 5D3 or 1D and a 6D would just be a PITA IMO even the 5Dmk2 is better in this regard than the 6D even though the 6D is superior in many ways

when under the pump being able to do things fast without messing around is key and having similar ergonomics on all bodies is very important to achieve this

 

[digital paradise]

A dedicated or an assignable button that when you press and release it switches from One Shot to AI Servo or back with an an indicator in the viewfinder. You only send one indicator. Tells you when you are in AI Servo.

 

[dropslash]

I disagree on your statement that the 6D is a great 2nd body for pros
if you shoot a 1D or 5D3 then the 6D ergonimics and AF make it a total non starter
i notice you put in some mythical cameras in the list including a 6DII not really sure why you did this

if the 6D ergonomics and af a fine for a particular persons pro use then they would be far better served having 2 6D bodies rather than mixing the egonomics up as they are vastly different having a 5D3 or 1D and a 6D would just be a PITA IMO even the 5Dmk2 is better in this regard than the 6D even though the 6D is superior in many ways

when under the pump being able to do things fast without messing around is key and having similar ergonomics on all bodies is very important to achieve this

I included "mythical" bodies because they represent logical progressions along each line that would make sense in unifying the upgrade paths and making them much more coherent. The 7D Mk.II is still speculative in terms of what it will be able to do, the 6D Mk.II obviously is just a dream at this point, but they represent what could be included in these line ups to really bring each category together. Same with an APS mirrorless. The 7D Mk.II represents a premium APS-C Prosumer body and falls in line as an APS-C 2nd body capable of performing professional duties. The 6D Mk.II represents a premium APS Prosumer body and falls in line as an APS 2nd body capable of performing professional duties.

I didn't say the 6D is a good second body for pros, in fact, I feel the exact opposite. The 6D represents a huge failure in the Prosumer lineup in regards to an upgrade path. I actually feel kind of bad about how hard I've come down on the 6D, but that's probably because I really wanted it to be more than it was. It's failures were what actually prompted me to write everything up in the first place.

 

[wickidwombat]

I disagree on your statement that the 6D is a great 2nd body for pros
if you shoot a 1D or 5D3 then the 6D ergonimics and AF make it a total non starter
i notice you put in some mythical cameras in the list including a 6DII not really sure why you did this

if the 6D ergonomics and af a fine for a particular persons pro use then they would be far better served having 2 6D bodies rather than mixing the egonomics up as they are vastly different having a 5D3 or 1D and a 6D would just be a PITA IMO even the 5Dmk2 is better in this regard than the 6D even though the 6D is superior in many ways

when under the pump being able to do things fast without messing around is key and having similar ergonomics on all bodies is very important to achieve this

I included "mythical" bodies because they represent logical progressions along each line that would make sense in unifying the upgrade paths and making them much more coherent. The 7D Mk.II is still speculative in terms of what it will be able to do, the 6D Mk.II obviously is just a dream at this point, but they represent what could be included in these line ups to really bring each category together. Same with an APS mirrorless. The 7D Mk.II represents a premium APS-C Prosumer body and falls in line as an APS-C 2nd body capable of performing professional duties. The 6D Mk.II represents a premium APS Prosumer body and falls in line as an APS 2nd body capable of performing professional duties.

I didn't say the 6D is a good second body for pros, in fact, I feel the exact opposite. The 6D represents a huge failure in the Prosumer lineup in regards to an upgrade path. I actually feel kind of bad about how hard I've come down on the 6D, but that's probably because I really wanted it to be more than it was. It's failures were what actually prompted me to write everything up in the first place.

"6D Mk.II – N/A ($1899.99) – Advanced Prosumer APS. Great 2nd body for Pros."

sorry I was applying your statement to the 6DII to the 6D

but what makes you think they will give a 6D2 better AF?
they might upgrade it to 60D AF

 

[dropslash]

"6D Mk.II – N/A ($1899.99) – Advanced Prosumer APS. Great 2nd body for Pros."

sorry I was applying your statement to the 6DII to the 6D

but what makes you think they will give a 6D2 better AF?
they might upgrade it to 60D AF

No worries! ;D At least the 60D has all 9 Cross Types. Heh. Even the T4i has all 9 CTs.

I can only hope the 6D gets its AF upgraded if there is a next iteration. It is the main serious issue that is keeping that body from playing in the big leagues. Even with the 7/70D 19pt Zone system it would a whole different beast and worth it's place in the lineup and the price tag Canon seems intent on asking for it.

 

[Aglet]

Mirrorless with WYSIWYG live histogram, etc. (like Fuji or Oly)
freeze the button positions or at least make them all programmable with soft indicators on screen if needed
oh, and for my preferences.. stuff an exmor sensor in there with matching front-end circuitry.

 

[unfocused]

I'd like to see consistency of placement of buttons on DSLRs. I have a 6D that I use most of the time, and a 7D for birds/athletic events. Every time I switch back to the 7D I get confused by the button placement. The cameras don't all have the same buttons, but consistent buttons like "menu" and "info" could certainly be consistently located.

I totally agree, switching from a 40D to a 7D was ridiculous because the menu button on the 40D became the Q button on the 7D, and playback was suddenly not the bottom left button, but rather the next-to-bottom-left!

Yes. One reason I chose a 5DIII over the 6D was to have some consistency with my 7D. But, some of the small differences seem random and rather annoying. On the 7D, one button allowed me to enlarge the preview on the screen. With the 5D, it takes two – one for a modest increase and then you have to rotate a dial to increase the magnification. Two steps to do what one did perfectly well before.

Another annoyance is you can't set the autofocus points from the quick control menu on the 5DIII.

Small annoyances, but they represent unnecessary changes.

 

[realXCV]

My turn!

Start with a 5D Mark III, upgrade it to get at least the image quality of a 1Dx (keep it the size of the 5D). Add the following:
- In camera IS
- 4K recording. (This one is optional as I don't record anything).
- Fully weatherproof/waterproof. I want to theorically be able to take a shower with it without worring that it might not work after that. A few lenses that share this feature would also be appreciated. Maybe not at a "you-can-take-photos-at-the-bottom-of-your-pool" level but something like "go-take-some-photos-of this-hurricane"
- Something better for manual focusing than guessing (something like the old split-circle).
- Better battery life.
- AC adapter automatically included in the box. Not the charger but the one you can use as a battery.
- Mini-HDMI to HDMI cable or adapter included in the box.
- Even better AF.
- Remove those squares around the AF red spots. I find them useless. What I want to know is where the focus is, not where it could be.
- More AF points or AF points more spread out. Maybe something like the automatic AF only uses the ones that are around the center like it currently does but manual selection of the AF points would allow you to use an AF point outside of that range.

All of it for the same price (or less) than the 5D Mark III.

 

[Grumbaki]

From my current 5d3 pov:
- Spot metering on the selected AF point.
- live histogram in viewfinder.
- GPS (not power hungry)

That's all. I've never been a utopist.

 

[traingineer]

Well then, lets see...

A metering system which is incredibly accurate, has no problems with anything.

A weatherproof battery grip

"smudge" proof LCD screen, it's near impossible to remove all the fingerprints/nose oil that has collected onto my 7D.

Easier ways to manually focus in the viewfinder.

No full auto or "creative" auto mode on the higher end DSLRs, P (Professional) is good enough for anyone who wants Auto mode.

 

[Sporgon]

No full auto or "creative" auto mode on the higher end DSLRs, P (Professional) is good enough for anyone who wants Auto mode.

But P mode doesn't set all camera functions back to 'basic user'. Green box does and this is very useful when handing the camera to someone else (non photographer) to grab a picture, without having to explain BBF etc etc. Doesn't happen often but I say keeping on.

 

[gshocked]

Hi all,

Just got myself a battery grip for the 5d3 and not happy that it compromises the weather sealing capability of the camera.

I would love Canon to implement the same Battery Grip design/attaching system as the Nikon Cameras.
This system only uses a special port on the bottom of the camera body covered by a rubber flap. Then you remove this and screw on the battery grip as normal.

 

[Marsu42]

[I am asking the question mainly for curiosity, and also because I have my own wish list of new features, twists and new products; maybe you can explain why my personal wishes actually won’t work.

An obvious first choice would be for Canon to un-cripple the firmware of the cheaper cameras and undo braindead or made-to-annoy limitations like the limited Av min. shutter speed (6d: only up to 1/250s, but who needs 1"?!). Also distinguishing cameras by the number of C modes doesn't build brand attachment.

Next, there would be some things ML does - not every geek feature needs to be in a widely distributed fw, but these are the things I think need to go into the Canon fw:
* EC in M (currently only 1dx)
* Focus peaking (come on Canon, this isn't nuclear science)
* Auto ISO even with flash enabled (disabling this is soooo dumb)
* Focus patterns (= enable not only one or all af points)

 

[traingineer]

No full auto or "creative" auto mode on the higher end DSLRs, P (Professional) is good enough for anyone who wants Auto mode.

But P mode doesn't set all camera functions back to 'basic user'. Green box does and this is very useful when handing the camera to someone else (non photographer) to grab a picture, without having to explain BBF etc etc. Doesn't happen often but I say keeping on.

Hmm, never thought about that.

 

[Ivan Muller]

Start with the 5Dmk3, then:

1. Add GPS.
2. Add Wi-Fi.
3. Add an articulated screen.
4. Improve the shadow noise to be as good as the 6D.
5. Make the settings lock a lot more intelligent, where you can control what it locks, and in what mode it locks each setting. For example, in manual mode, I'd like the switch to protect the white balance setting, but not the three exposure settings.
6. Prevent accidental changes of settings when pressed by your face. This would require touchscreen-style capacitive touch sensors on the body parts around the buttons so that it can tell whether the button is being pressed by a finger or a cheek.
7. A third wheel. In manual mode, this would let you control exposure time, ISO, and aperture. In the mode you described, this would control exposure time, aperture, and exposure compensation. And so on.
8. Replace the CF slot with a second SD slot, and use a modern SD card controller so performance doesn't suck.

IS THE SHADOW NOISE REALLY BETTER ON THE 6D THAN ON THE 5d?

 

[Marsu42]

IS THE SHADOW NOISE REALLY BETTER ON THE 6D THAN ON THE 5d?

YES IT IS BUT ONLY AFTER RAISING THE SHADOWS A LOT ... wupps, my caps lock key was stuck, sorry.