Are National Parks Going to Charge to Take Photos?

It's been a rule / policy for years that organized groups or professional image and movie-makers require a permit, pay a fee, and hire a ranger to accompany production crews on a shoot.

The ranger serves as a guide in sensitive areas, and observes that the proper environmental protection rules are followed, and that 'out-of-bound' restrictions.

it does not apply to 'individuals' that are shooting 'the scene as it appears' at that point in time -- unless it will at some point disrupt operations of the park. Any time production images will be created for "commercial applications", it requires a permit ... that is, "commercial application", not the same as journalists or individual hobbyists or travelers ... For example: If you shoot images of Elk, Bear, Old Faithful, and print it for family or wall hang it, -- or even publish it in a magazine back home (news, journalism)... no permit. If you shoot that same image and create a calendar for sale, or use it in a magazine advertisement, then it will.
 
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monkey44 said:
It's been a rule / policy for years that organized groups or professional image and movie-makers require a permit, pay a fee, and hire a ranger to accompany production crews on a shoot.

The ranger serves as a guide in sensitive areas, and observes that the proper environmental protection rules are followed, and that 'out-of-bound' restrictions.

...For example: If you shoot images of Elk, Bear, Old Faithful...

The article relates to the National Forest, I believe the title of this thread needs to be changed as yes the National Parks have had that taxation.

Many years ago I was visiting a park in Paris with my father (we were on vacation) a lady ask him if I was a professional, my Dad being all proud said yes. She freaked out demanding money (I wasn't even photographing her or her toy sailboat. The more rules like this the greater chance a USFS employee can shut an individual down while you wait for their superior to educate the employee. Require paying for an escort service by the USFS if it's a large production, but this reads more like a way to control media images of forest fires.
 
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Steve Todd

Canon SLR/DSLR user since 1976
Jul 20, 2010
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Here in the Southwest US, we are used to paying camera fees for non-commercial photography. Most of the Indian Pueblos here charge a fee, even for people only taking pictures with their cell phones! It's no big deal and usually doesn't amount to much. However, I'm sure some of the pictures taken at those places end up being sold.

I just hope the current policy doesen't change in the future because of people taking advantage of the current rules like it has in other places. I remember the first time I went to Egypt, photography (with fees at certain places) was allowed everywhere with the only exception, that flash photography was prohibited in the tombs and museums.

Now, they charge camera and video fees for just about every historical site. And at some of the best places there (probably due to people using their photos commercially), they prohibit photography altogether.
 
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DominoDude

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Feb 7, 2013
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*shakes head in disbelief* Thankfully I live in a country (Norway, Iceland, and Finland has the same concept) where I can go out to any place I want in nature without having to pay for shooting (worst case scenario would be that I would have to pay for parking my car near the site). Unless a site is on private property I can do pretty much as I like.
We have something called "Allemansrätten" (literally "Every mans right", or the freedom to roam) - the short way of explaining it would be: Don't destroy, and don't disturb! - that are guidelines on what we are allowed to do in nature. National parks often have some additional rules so as to restrict visit during birds breeding season. Money is never involved in these equations.
 
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DominoDude said:
*shakes head in disbelief* Thankfully I live in a country (Norway, Iceland, and Finland has the same concept) where I can go out to any place I want in nature without having to pay for shooting (worst case scenario would be that I would have to pay for parking my car near the site). Unless a site is on private property I can do pretty much as I like.
We have something called "Allemansrätten" (literally "Every mans right", or the freedom to roam) - the short way of explaining it would be: Don't destroy, and don't disturb! - that are guidelines on what we are allowed to do in nature. National parks often have some additional rules so as to restrict visit during birds breeding season. Money is never involved in these equations.

Thanks for posting. :)

In this age of greed, such a policy is a refreshing statement of comparative values.
 
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c.d.embrey said:
Ya gotta luv clueless bloggers. Always ready to create a controversy about something they know absolutly nothing about. Meh :(

I just don't understand this negative post. Someone wants to info the photography community of a proposed fee aimed at photographers and you dis them as clueless. -tiny rant here- but it's my pet-peeve when I hear camera companies marketing certain bodies as being "professional". They cripple nice sized bodies so we have to buy some over bloated dslr body the size/weight of a 4x5. Pull out a Cinema series camera or large white lens and you already get harassed by rent-a-cops, the do-gooder public, and officials. What happens when the National Parks and National Forest employees start requiring these ridiculous fees just because you splurged on some camera gear for your summer vacation? Slippery slope what happens when it's any dslr on a tripod

I recently spent most of a day (wasting my vacation time) so some fat lady who has never hiked into the back county could ask me a bunch of stupid and I mean STUPID questions to get a backcountry permit and charge me a fee. A time wasting process that was NEVER there when I was back in school. But we the stupid (people) have bought into our government knows best.

Like I said before this is written as a slippery slope fee. If the USFS wants to charge media outlets that need escort services to get images of forest fires, or need escort services because they are going to have a 70 person crew, etc.. then write it up specific for the need of the escort services. I wish I could say some landscape image I photographed netted me thousands upon thousands of dollars or that I knew there was a very lucrative market selling wildlife images. That seems to me more of a fantasy created by Camera companies, workshop instructors, and the cube worker wanting to believe in a fanciful lifestyle.

By the way while I was in that NPS visitor's center they had a bunch of photos(replicas) on the wall by popular photographers I'd bet they didn't license those images for commercial display. If they did I'm sure they would not of been using those cheap replicas
 
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Jeff said:
c.d.embrey said:
Ya gotta luv clueless bloggers. Always ready to create a controversy about something they know absolutly nothing about. Meh :(

I just don't understand this negative post. Someone wants to info the photography community of a proposed fee aimed at photographers and you dis them as clueless.

Read UPDATE THREE below. He's revised his original article. Looks to me like he did a poor job of reporting and fact checking the original story. As I said before, Meh.
UPDATE THREE: According to the Washington Post, Tom Tidwell, chief of the United States Forest Service says “If you’re news media, it has no effect at all,” he said. “If you’re a private individual, this doesn’t apply. Individuals who want to shoot on wild lands won’t need a permit, even if they plan to sell their photographs, except if it involves props. Fees for permits vary by size. Groups of up to three will pay $10 a day, while crews of 80 shooting movies usually pay around $800 a day”

Ok, so it sounds like we will finally get some clarification on this issue. The question is, why wasn't the above stance conveyed by the first two high ranking officials of the USFS to be questioned?

I've been involved with Commercial Filming and Still Photography since the 1970s. And very little has changed with the proposed new rules. If your photos/videos are part of an Advertising Campaign you will need a permit, same as it ever was -- nothing new here.

Few, if any, people who read the f/stop blog will be effected.
Still photography
Photography of scenery has traditionally been part of a visit to a national park. Photography does not require a permit if it involves only hand-carried equipment (tripod, interchangeable lenses or flash), and does not involve professional crews, product or service advertisement, or use of models, props or sets.
 
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Mar 25, 2011
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If you read the original Forest Service rule, it was worded like a 6 year old wrote it. It could be taken almost any way you wanted.

After lawmakers came after them, they suddenly did a about face from what they said two days earlier. No matter what the hype, unless the wording of the rule is changed, any forest ranger can decide whats commercial. If you want to post a photo on CR, a commercial website, they could require a permit as its now written.

From the Oregonian:

"The U.S. Forest Service's chief backed off proposed restrictions on photography in wilderness areas Thursday after facing sweeping protests from lawmakers, First Amendment advocates and media outlets across the country.
"The U.S. Forest Service remains committed to the First Amendment," the agency's chief, Tom Tidwell, said in a statement. "To be clear, provisions in the draft directive do not apply to news gathering or activities."
Tidwell's statement said he was attempting to "clarify the agency's intentions" and would not require a permit for news-gathering or recreational photographs in wilderness areas.
Tidwell didn't explain why others in his agency told The Oregonian the opposite just two days earlier.
On Tuesday, Liz Close, the agency's acting wilderness director, said the Forest Service would permit reporting in wilderness depending on its subject matter, with exceptions for breaking news. "If you were engaged on reporting that was in support of wilderness characteristics, that would be permitted," Close said.
She acknowledged that reporters shooting videos, even on iPhones, would need special permits.
The agency's news release Thursday said the maximum $1,500 permit fees reported by The Oregonian and widely cited by other publications were "erroneous, and refers to a different proposed directive."
That information had been provided to The Oregonian by the Forest Service's top spokesman, Larry Chambers. The agency didn't say what other directive it referred to.
Critics of the Forest Service plan said they were heartened to hear the agency backing off, but that it needed to do more.
"Unless or until they change the proposed regulations, I don't think what the Forest Service chief says aligns with what they've proposed," said Steve Bass, president and CEO of Oregon Public Broadcasting. "It's easy to say that. Now let's take the action to demonstrate that."
Bass said his organization's reporters, who frequently produce documentaries in wilderness areas, have had permitting problems before with the Forest Service.
"The biggest problem with these regulations are that the exemptions for news are too narrow and the definition of commercial are too broad," Bass said.
Earlier Thursday, the Forest Service said it was extending a public comment period by a month, to Dec. 3, to allow more input on its photography rules. A host of bipartisan lawmakers said the proposal should instead be scrapped.
The agency's policymakers told media outlets in early September that they had little reason to be interested in the policy. When it was announced, Robert Westover, a public affairs specialist, wrote in an email: "This announcement is expected to be non-controversial with very little interest outside of the film industry for both entertainment and educational film makers."
The Forest Service's rules have caused problems before. In 2010, the agency refused to allow an Idaho Public Television crew into a wilderness area to film student conservation workers. The agency ultimately caved to pressure from Idaho Gov. C.L. "Butch" Otter.
 
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Dec 17, 2013
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I would say that the FS has some communications issues, and also needs to provide more guidance to its employees. A lot of obstructionism can be attributed to employees' fear of being called out on the carpet for not doing their job, hence, overzealous interpretation of not-too-specific rules.

As for limiting photos of forest fires: 1. er....satellites? 2. What's Google Earth's fee going to be?

As for "props", what are props? Most of the outdoor industry adverts' props are actual items being used on the trail. Tent, sleeping gear, stove, etc. You, boutique ultralight gear manufacturer, might take a pretty photo of a tent in a nice location - and then use your subject for a good night's sleep.
 
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