Are These The EOS 7D Mark II Specifications?
- Thread starter Canon Rumors
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Couple of things.
1. Build quality was not mentioned. Only stated that it didn't have the 1D style top plate.
2. "Fine Detal" CMOS is being read as removing the AA filter. The bit above the specs state that the sensor does have new technology. Removing an AA filter is NOT new tech.
3. Confused personally by the ISO 16,000 upper limits which is 1 1/3 stops. Odd but I guess not unbelievable.
4. Spot metering is 1.8% To me that does help the sports segment some on a dark field.
5. Dual Digic 6 . . . . . . . makes me think/hope their may be a bit more magic cooked into the sensor than a mild 70D upgrade
1. Build quality was not mentioned. Only stated that it didn't have the 1D style top plate.
2. "Fine Detal" CMOS is being read as removing the AA filter. The bit above the specs state that the sensor does have new technology. Removing an AA filter is NOT new tech.
3. Confused personally by the ISO 16,000 upper limits which is 1 1/3 stops. Odd but I guess not unbelievable.
4. Spot metering is 1.8% To me that does help the sports segment some on a dark field.
5. Dual Digic 6 . . . . . . . makes me think/hope their may be a bit more magic cooked into the sensor than a mild 70D upgrade
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zim said:
There really isn't anything special about moving up to 16000 "native", especially if it's the same sensor as the 70D. It won't be any better than a digital push...its going to be using the downstream analog amp anyway for that, which is really no better.
If Canon doubled Q.E., then high ISO would be better for sure...but I would be surprised if Q.E. on this thing is over 50%.
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jrista said:
I have always wondered about this, and you may be the guy to answer. Intel's next series of chips is what, 14nm process? I understand that Intel is purely in the microprocessor business, and Canon has to do a lot more than just optimize processes for sensors, but is there any practical reason why sensor transistors are / should be / need to be on such a different scale? Or is it just a matter of business and not wanting to make the necessary investment to keep shrinking? The fact that intel shrinks every other year has just made me wonder... because clearly there's an advantage to a smaller process.
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timarrick said:
Actually, the use of Dual DIGIC 6 makes me really think that there is NO more magic cooked into the sensor, and that all the "magic" is happening after the signal is pulled OFF the sensor. It's probably roughly the same sensor that employs a slightly new DPAF design, and probably has a very weak or no AA filter, but is otherwise unchanged from the 70D. DIGIC 6, which actually came out before Sony BionzX, actually has a LOT of the same capabilities, and is the primary reason the IQ on their smaller form factor cameras is good. They really cook the signal coming off the sensor.
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Let's see what the final specs AND the final performance (noise, DR) will be.
I had expected a big higher MP count (around 24) and had hoped for a bit higher ISO range. Butbstill, 10 fps with 61 AF poits can be a very good camera for birding, if noise is improved over the 7D1 and if the price is right (around 6D price).
I had expected a big higher MP count (around 24) and had hoped for a bit higher ISO range. Butbstill, 10 fps with 61 AF poits can be a very good camera for birding, if noise is improved over the 7D1 and if the price is right (around 6D price).
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Lightmaster said:
LOL. Extremely high grade sensors that cost a TON of money reach 90% Q.E. The DSLR camera with the highest Q.E. on the market right now has 60% Q.E. The 70D has 45% Q.E. There is absolutely NO WAY that Canon sensors will suddenly hit 90% Q.E. You have to spend at least $5000 on a thermally regulated CCD camera to get over 90% Q.E., and then, it IS a CCD, and those sensors are usually non-anti-blooming CCDs (so charge from each pixel spills over into neighboring pixels when they reach their capacity).
Getting that much quantum efficiency is not easy. It requires very high grade materials and careful construction. Canon has apparently not changed their manufacturing process, so seeing a 5% increase in Q.E. over the 70D sensor in the 7D II would be about as much as I could expect.
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Lee Jay said:
From what I've read about DIGIC 6, a lot of the processing power is dedicated to image processing, not just your basic readout and write to RAW. I would be willing to bet that any IQ improvement in the 7D II comes from the pair of DIGIC 6 chips. As for frame rate, as I mentioned in my original post, Canon probably wants to reserve frame rates greater than 10fps for their premium 1D line, which is understandable IMO.
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These specs look good to me for several reasons. By omitting GPS, Wi-Fi and the touch screen, I may be able to afford to buy one. I hope it is weather sealed with a rubber ring at the lens mounting plate and can be bought in “Canon White” to avoid over heating in the sun. That would make it a great camera for those who do shooting at sports events and outdoors.
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Hmm is a fine detail sensor just the same as the 70D bit without AA filter??? To be honest, that would make the sensor WORSE than the 70D sensor in my mind. I just don't think the densities are high enough yet to simply drop the AA filters. That is way place where I think Nikon and SONY are going off the rails a little and it would be a shame to see Canon fall into that marketing nonsense trap. So Canon goes for the AA-less trend but doesn't bother about the super great low ISO DR trend??? Seems like the worst of two world's decisions. (if all true)
Hmm no 4k....
I guess the talk about how the main IQ improvements and 4k may be held for the 5D4 and the 7D would all be about new stills AF and video AF were the true early rumors?
It certainly sounds good and yet if it doesn't do more than just give a 70D sensor without AA (and maybe it does do more) and no 4k it seems like it's something they could've produced, as is, some time ago already (other than perhaps for some super souped up dual pixel AF 2).
Personally I'd way rather be shooting 4k video with old or even no dual pixel AF than 1080p with souped up dual pixel AF.
I think Canon thinks like this: super fast video AF and tracking is MUCH less expensive to produce than fancy new sensor fabs to match Exmor sensors for low ISO quality and it's maybe easier to make a big marketing pitch over to the avg guy on the street and since we have all users locked in with lenses, will just do this and forget about matching exmor. (cryptic message from JapaneseCanonFangirlsGroup appeared to claim that Canon's internal thinking is that they have users so locked in with lenses that they will be OK even though they are going to fall behind compared to other makers for raw stills low iso image quality and even, at the lower end for this round, 4k video and that they have users trapped enough that they don't have to spend for new fabs and push 4k into lower tiers yet)
Granted the 5D series was always canon's main lower tier video push, but I mean competition is out there, GH4.... yeah GH4 is not the camera this is for other things, but leaving out 4k all the same you'd think has to lose some sales to those more in it for video and not at 5D series level. But whatever.
I'm sure this will have amazing AF and handle sports and wildlife super well so it will likely be very good in many ways, but there are some disturbing potential hints that Canon really has not gotten any sort of exmor-matching plans on the line any time soon and that it will all be about cheaper to produce mass marketing things like bragging on no AA filters and having ultra fast video AF for the next round or two of bodies and that they may well see to cripple video on the 5D4. If this got 1080p instead of 4k that means the 5D4 can get 4k but likely a crippled up versions and still no solid built in features like focusing peaking, magic 100% focus boxes, zebras, etc. etc. and they might leave out 1080p RAW and maybe produce a blurry, waxy 4k and leave the real stuff to the 1DX2 or C-line....
Hmm no 4k....
I guess the talk about how the main IQ improvements and 4k may be held for the 5D4 and the 7D would all be about new stills AF and video AF were the true early rumors?
It certainly sounds good and yet if it doesn't do more than just give a 70D sensor without AA (and maybe it does do more) and no 4k it seems like it's something they could've produced, as is, some time ago already (other than perhaps for some super souped up dual pixel AF 2).
Personally I'd way rather be shooting 4k video with old or even no dual pixel AF than 1080p with souped up dual pixel AF.
I think Canon thinks like this: super fast video AF and tracking is MUCH less expensive to produce than fancy new sensor fabs to match Exmor sensors for low ISO quality and it's maybe easier to make a big marketing pitch over to the avg guy on the street and since we have all users locked in with lenses, will just do this and forget about matching exmor. (cryptic message from JapaneseCanonFangirlsGroup appeared to claim that Canon's internal thinking is that they have users so locked in with lenses that they will be OK even though they are going to fall behind compared to other makers for raw stills low iso image quality and even, at the lower end for this round, 4k video and that they have users trapped enough that they don't have to spend for new fabs and push 4k into lower tiers yet)
Granted the 5D series was always canon's main lower tier video push, but I mean competition is out there, GH4.... yeah GH4 is not the camera this is for other things, but leaving out 4k all the same you'd think has to lose some sales to those more in it for video and not at 5D series level. But whatever.
I'm sure this will have amazing AF and handle sports and wildlife super well so it will likely be very good in many ways, but there are some disturbing potential hints that Canon really has not gotten any sort of exmor-matching plans on the line any time soon and that it will all be about cheaper to produce mass marketing things like bragging on no AA filters and having ultra fast video AF for the next round or two of bodies and that they may well see to cripple video on the 5D4. If this got 1080p instead of 4k that means the 5D4 can get 4k but likely a crippled up versions and still no solid built in features like focusing peaking, magic 100% focus boxes, zebras, etc. etc. and they might leave out 1080p RAW and maybe produce a blurry, waxy 4k and leave the real stuff to the 1DX2 or C-line....
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jrista said:
Still it seems like a single DIGIC 6 would do the job for the specs we've been given. Maybe the second one is for faster focusing, faster dual-pixel focusing, or something we haven't been told like dual ISO sampling.
Or, maybe the rumor is wrong.
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L
Lightmaster
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jrista said:
the latest sony sensor has a reported QE of 67%.
http://www.sensorgen.info/
i have edited my post while you were writing. i mixed this up with the ruby sensors we use. they are CMOS not CCD. i kind of had that impressive number in mind.
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jrista said:
mmmm I thought that native meant before digital push hay ho my misunderstand.
To be honest this is still much closer to what I was expecting - 7D build/ergo, 70D sensor and a couple of genuinely impressive head-liner specs (fps/af), price probably just north of the original 7D price I'd imagine.
Still a heck of a camera
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bseitz234 said:
cost.
no one creates large sensors using the latest technology - the A7R / D810E sensor for instance is on 180nm. which is speculated to the be the same as the 70D sensor. D700, D4, etc were even on larger than that (350nm to 250nm)
the toshiba sensor uses 65nm and sony was looking at and just starting to use 90nm for it's APS-C sensors, but unless you're talking the smart phone / compact sensors - there's just no benefit to the smaller geometries over the cost of production with the pixel granularity where it is.
canon's current line of lithography systems can produce chips under 90nm - far exceeding even really what is required by sensors - so it's not as if canon can't if they feel they have to. also to add to that, canon now has the equipment to product down to under 10nm geometries.
To be honest, people are humping on this as the core reason - not really. and most of them don't have a freaking clue, but all of a sudden turn into electronic and chip designers (not to mention camera designers too). canon certainly has a problem "downlevel" from the pixel - but their QE from their current 70D isn't that much off than the D5100's QE and even cutting the pixels in half they improved the QE by 10% over the 7D sensor level spec.
some notables that I'm concerned more about is the lack of 4K on this, and some more information on the viewfinder. also would love to know if uses the EVF addon via the hotshoe. the augmentation of built in radio trigger is awesome though.
the specs are too lose and too premature to jump off the cliff like a few are doing.
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