AutoISO messed up.... AGAIN? arrrrrrr it's just not that difficult

[awinphoto]

Some more years ago movies had not color and sound..some more, people made paintings...who cares what was.

Real fixes are always better than workarounds. Sure you can press 2 buttons for focusing to have it illuminated before AF start...but with the MII it was all in one button. BTW the problem with the non-illuminated AF points occurs when its dark. And this is the AutoISO wish thread.

and yet the 7d has been around nearly as long and no one had any issues until now?

 

[awinphoto]

Some more years ago movies had not color and sound..some more, people made paintings...who cares what was.

Real fixes are always better than workarounds. Sure you can press 2 buttons for focusing to have it illuminated before AF start...but with the MII it was all in one button. BTW the problem with the non-illuminated AF points occurs when its dark. And this is the AutoISO wish thread.

And since you brought up the 5d2, how did that AF work for ya? I'd rather take all the benefits of the AF/level, ability to turn points on and off from view, etc than worry about dots that illuminate as you move your points on the one touch application to track moving subjects... cant believe all the griping people do over the silliest things...

 

[PhilDrinkwater]

yawn... shot several paid shoots so far with the 5d3, a few using auto iso.... no problems so far... got my min shutter set to 125 when using my 24-105, and auto iso does the rest. but just think of it, seriously, 10 years ago there was no auto iso, you had to dial it in, use an external meter because in camera meters, if any, were crap, and even with that, you would buy a brick of film, waste the first roll of the brick testing it so you can dial in exactly how it will expose with your meter, and compensate from there... gasp... whatever did we do? Going between indoor and outdoor scenes... you had to gasp, use more light, waste the rest of the roll to change film, or if you were the bomb, you kept notes on how far you were so when you went back to a roll you can auto advance by manually shooting blanks to get back to where you were without wasting rolls. Dont get me wrong, I appreciate auto ISO, but i'm not going to blame it if i miss an exposure, afterall it is picking up after my lazy butt because i chose not to crunch the math and do it myself.

I think this is missing the point. We can all take well exposed shots. We can all use a lightmeter. What we did was limit photography to those situations where we could take the photograph. Using manual methods, if I swing round and see a shot that I want and it's outdoors and I'm indoors, I physically won't have time to take the shot using the minimum ISO I could - or maybe even not at all if I hit 1/8000th.

I could easily go back to a 20 year way of shooting and my work would suffer for it. I'd rather move my photography onwards and expand my creative options as I go. 100 years ago people took 5 photos at a wedding and everyone had to stay very still. We don't want to move back to those times either. Computers are good at calculating things if the producers of technology see the opportunity it offers.

Auto ISO (if correctly implemented) does offer new opportunities. It gives you the option of taking shots you couldn't otherwise, as have many of the other technological advances.

"whatever did we do?" - we took a shot which isn't as good as the shot we could have taken today or we missed the opportunity. And it's not laziness - it's actually creativity and a desire to produce better work which drives this technology ... at least for me. It can do something in 1/1000th of a second which would take me *at least* 2 seconds to achieve and those 2 seconds matter sometimes.

Also, 1/125th isn't suitable for everyone - that's barely adequate for my 135f2 so now I have to go to 1/250th whereas 1/160th would be fine.

 

[awinphoto]

OMG the camera cannot read my mind! WTF

yawn... shot several paid shoots so far with the 5d3, a few using auto iso.... no problems so far... got my min shutter set to 125 when using my 24-105, and auto iso does the rest. but just think of it, seriously, 10 years ago there was no auto iso, you had to dial it in, use an external meter because in camera meters, if any, were crap, and even with that, you would buy a brick of film, waste the first roll of the brick testing it so you can dial in exactly how it will expose with your meter, and compensate from there... gasp... whatever did we do? Going between indoor and outdoor scenes... you had to gasp, use more light, waste the rest of the roll to change film, or if you were the bomb, you kept notes on how far you were so when you went back to a roll you can auto advance by manually shooting blanks to get back to where you were without wasting rolls. Dont get me wrong, I appreciate auto ISO, but i'm not going to blame it if i miss an exposure, afterall it is picking up after my lazy butt because i chose not to crunch the math and do it myself.

I think this is missing the point. We can all take well exposed shots. We can all use a lightmeter. What we did was limit photography to those situations where we could take the photograph. Using manual methods, if I swing round and see a shot that I want and it's outdoors and I'm indoors, I physically won't have time to take the shot using the minimum ISO I could - or maybe even not at all if I hit 1/8000th.

I could easily go back to a 20 year way of shooting and my work would suffer for it. I'd rather move my photography onwards and expand my creative options as I go. 100 years ago people took 5 photos at a wedding and everyone had to stay very still. We don't want to move back to those times either. Computers are good at calculating things if the producers of technology see the opportunity it offers.

Auto ISO (if correctly implemented) does offer new opportunities. It gives you the option of taking shots you couldn't otherwise, as have many of the other technological advances.

"whatever did we do?" - we took a shot which isn't as good as the shot we could have taken today or we missed the opportunity. And it's not laziness - it's actually creativity and a desire to produce better work which drives this technology ... at least for me. It can do something in 1/1000th of a second which would take me *at least* 2 seconds to achieve and those 2 seconds matter sometimes.

Also, 1/125th isn't suitable for everyone - that's barely adequate for my 135f2 so now I have to go to 1/250th whereas 1/160th would be fine.

Phil, I get your point and i'm all about innovation, or i wouldn't have gotten to where i am. You have auto ISO, you have a minimum shutter speed you can set and the camera will abide by as long as it can get an accurate exposure, but in the end it is not a mind reader... For what i'm concerned, the camera can do so much, it can calculate the exposure, calculate exposure based on the parameters of the min shutter THAT YOU SET, and there you go... unless you are shooting 400mm lenses or bigger and or teleconverters, the 1/250 minimum is plenty adequate unless you are shooting some oddball thing like races or whatever... then in those situations where shutter is important, one click from AV to TV solves the shutter requirement issues. This thread can be retitled.

 

[PhilDrinkwater]

Re: OMG the camera cannot read my mind! WTF

For what i'm concerned, the camera can do so much, it can calculate the exposure, calculate exposure based on the parameters of the min shutter THAT YOU SET, and there you go...

I guess my background (which is a lot about usability) has made me look deeper for the ways that systems can help.. whether others want to use them is up to them, but I can guarantee that I could spec a system which would help some users much more than the current system.

It feels like the old "programmer spends 90% of the time making a system and then 10% of the time making it usable".

If Canon asked their customers what they want or took notice of feedback (I sent in feedback 3 years ago when I got my 5d2) then this thread and all of the other 5d3 auto ISO threads wouldn't exist.

For me, it's not a lesson for the users in how to live within what we're given, but for manufacturers to listen to their customers needs and satisfy them, especially in the face of competition (not just Nikon) which seems to have got it right.

 

[awinphoto]

Re: OMG the camera cannot read my mind! WTF

For what i'm concerned, the camera can do so much, it can calculate the exposure, calculate exposure based on the parameters of the min shutter THAT YOU SET, and there you go...

I guess my background (which is a lot about usability) has made me look deeper for the ways that systems can help.. whether others want to use them is up to them, but I can guarantee that I could spec a system which would help some users much more than the current system.

It feels like the old "programmer spends 90% of the time making a system and then 10% of the time making it usable".

If Canon asked their customers what they want or took notice of feedback (I sent in feedback 3 years ago when I got my 5d2) then this thread and all of the other 5d3 auto ISO threads wouldn't exist.

For me, it's not a lesson for the users in how to live within what we're given, but for manufacturers to listen to their customers needs and satisfy them, especially in the face of competition (not just Nikon) which seems to have got it right.

It could be said that canon did listen to their customers... people wanted better ISO, canon gave it to them, people wanted much better AF, they gave them the best AF they have, people wanted more customization, no more MP, 100% VF, people wanted horizon level, people wanted weathersealing, people wanted more usability, canon gave them all of that and then some. Canon gave everything people wanted yet people still aren't happy, ad regarding the feedback, give feedback, but all the gripes are about new features, the new AF, the new implementation of the auto ISO... in the last, lets say 4 years, that i've even dared to use auto iso, because before that, with the 30d and such, ISO was so awful you didn't WANT your camera to bump up past ISO 1000 if you can help it. Now it isn't as much as issue. But in that time, I would guess auto ISO maybe cost me a handful, ok, maybe a dozen images total because shutter was too slow for the scene, but in the end, I take responsibility for not having the camera in full manual or Tv to make sure that wasn't an issue. Then again how I shoot isn't the same as you, so...

 

[AvTvM]

Re: OMG the camera cannot read my mind! WTF

For me, it's not a lesson for the users in how to live within what we're given, but for manufacturers to listen to their customers needs and satisfy them, especially in the face of competition (not just Nikon) which seems to have got it right.

+1 ... exactly!

It took Nikon also a long time to get to the "almost right" D800 version of Auto-ISO... users cannot set their own "rules" to balance the 3 parameters as desired. But even then it is 2 steps ahead in functionality of Canon and it has a way better user interface for Auto-ISO than Canon (including 1 series cameras) ... looking at the menus shows this very nicely. This came as a bit of a surprise to me, because in general I consider Canon's UI to be superior to Nikon's ... e.g. interms of "3 full custom setups" (Canon, except most 1 series cams) vs. "2 separate parameter banks" (all Nikon).

 

[bloodstupid]

Re: OMG the camera cannot read my mind! WTF

.. then in those situations where shutter is important, one click from AV to TV solves the shutter requirement issues. This thread can be retitled.

Yes if you have a screwdriver and glue so you can open up the lens and fix the aperture you want to shoot it in..

 

[TotoEC]

yawn... [snip] [snip], seriously, 10 years ago there was no auto iso, you had to dial it in, use an external meter because in camera meters, if any, were crap, and even with that, you would buy a brick of film, waste the first roll of the brick testing it so you can dial in exactly how it will expose with your meter, and compensate from there... gasp... whatever did we do? Going between indoor and outdoor scenes... you had to gasp, use more light, waste the rest of the roll to change film, or if you were the bomb, you kept notes on how far you were so when you went back to a roll you can auto advance by manually shooting blanks to get back to where you were without wasting rolls. . .[snip] . .

People should be thankful and appreciative of what they have now - AutoISO.

How many members in this forum know anything about the F16 Rule? and no, that's not the jetplane!

 

[AvTvM]

People should be thankful and appreciative of what they have now - AutoISO.

no, I am not at all thankful for semi- or non-functional features in my cameras and I will never be.

My 7D has an Auto-ISO feature but it sucks so much, that I cannot use it at all. 5D 2 is even worse and 5D 3 is only somewhat better. I am paying full price for my cameras and I want them with fully functional photographic features, especially with those which really help me getting better pictures and/or getting them more easily.

 

[awinphoto]

Re: OMG the camera cannot read my mind! WTF

.. then in those situations where shutter is important, one click from AV to TV solves the shutter requirement issues. This thread can be retitled.

Yes if you have a screwdriver and glue so you can open up the lens and fix the aperture you want to shoot it in..

Well a tip from one professional to another, if you shoot on P or that shiney green box setting it will do all the guess work for ya! how bout that? a mind reading camera... we photographers have gotten spoiled... the difficulty, the discipline needed to be a professional has gone by the wayside and whats left? People who want the camera to do it all for them and all they have to do is click a button. It's a sad reality we live in.

 

[awinphoto]

People should be thankful and appreciative of what they have now - AutoISO.

no, I am not at all thankful for semi- or non-functional features in my cameras and I will never be.

My 7D and it has an Auto-ISO feature that sucks so much, that I cannot use it at all. 5D 2 is even worse and 5D 3 is only somewhat better. I am paying full price for my cameras and I want them with fully functional photographic features, especially with those which really help me getting better pictures and/or getting them more easily.

I've read your bitching and whining for the last 3 months... jump over to nikon, get over yourself. We get that you dont like canon right now or the 5d3... dont buy it... i'm sure canon will be crying over your lost business.

 

[briansquibb]

If you really need autoiso buy a 1 series . I have and I use it by default, works perfectly and gives me ec for fine tuning.

I suppose you my say that this should come as default like it does in the D800 - to which I would say why doesn't the D800 give me 10fps. We could carry on forever that way.

The 5DIII has a limited AutoIso
The 1 series has the full AutoIso

Just buy the camera that suits you best and stop whining

 

[Loswr]

How many members in this forum know anything about the F16 Rule?

But that only applies to the archaic medium of film, right?

I've read your bitching and whining for the last 3 months... jump over to nikon, get over yourself. We get that you dont like canon right now or the 5d3... dont buy it... i'm sure canon will be crying over your lost business.

It's been suggested. He's already indicated that when (translation = IF, a big IF) he goes FF, he'll be switching to Nikon. At that point, I hope the whining about inadequate features and other issues will move to another forum...

 

[Razor2012]

Wouldn't it be better if someone really likes another brand, just join their forum and praise it rather than sit here and b***h? It's like staying in a relationship that really sucks...or you can do something about it to make things better. That way we don't have to listen to it, lol. Life is too short.

 

[bloodstupid]

Stop complaining about us complaining and go write canon and chuck westfall to make the world better...

This is not about liking a brand...its just a firm that produces tools, why should one be emotional about that. We just want them to improve and think their features through.

 

[PhilDrinkwater]

If you really need autoiso buy a 1 series . I have and I use it by default, works perfectly and gives me ec for fine tuning.

I suppose you my say that this should come as default like it does in the D800 - to which I would say why doesn't the D800 give me 10fps. We could carry on forever that way.

The 5DIII has a limited AutoIso
The 1 series has the full AutoIso

Just buy the camera that suits you best and stop whining

What about this little problem: I can afford a 1 series but it's too loud in church for my preference. What do I do then? Suddenly, because someone decided to leave out a few thousand $ of software deliberately I cannot have the camera I would like.

Both the 5d and 1d are pro cameras. Canon need to learn that.

 

[PhilDrinkwater]

Forget it..

 

[aznable]

I've read your bitching and whining for the last 3 months... jump over to nikon, get over yourself. We get that you dont like canon right now or the 5d3... dont buy it... i'm sure canon will be crying over your lost business.

nahhh...he would start taking some photos to change and improve his technique

 

[awinphoto]

To be honest I'm disappointed about the attitude here. We aren't talking about a light leak which affects virtually no one ever - we're talking about a feature which is still not right in *3* generations of cameras.

I'm not talking about sending my camera back, switching brands or even moaning if canon made me pay for it: but this is an important feature for me, a 1d is too loud and I don't want to switch brands.

By moaning, maybe someone will notice and give me what *i* want in the camera considering its just a firmware tweak?

Assuming it is just a firmware tweak, and I think you said you can do that in a few minutes or so... why dont you email canon and while you are at it, send them your resume.... surely what canon needs is forward thinking and innovation that they lack... Now let me climb off my soap box and say still I dont think i've missed more than a dozen images ever because of auto ISO... But then I dont let the camera try to read my mind... If the aperture and shutter speed is important, shoot in manual with auto ISO and it gets me there. Also i'm not too proud to admit that it is a crutch and basically filling in when I'm too lazy to work out the proper exposure properly manually. There used to be a time when outdoors i could just look at an outdoors scene, and going off of sunny 16 and compensating for clouds, for shade, for whatever the scene was experiencing and be able to nail exposure within a 1/3 of a stop but even I admit that the camera meters are getting good enough where I can trust that and not use my brain to do the equations. We have gotten lazy as photographers in this sense and this whole thread proves it to a T.