AutoISO messed up.... AGAIN? arrrrrrr it's just not that difficult

[AvTvM]

We have gotten lazy as photographers in this sense and this whole thread proves it to a T.

Well, that is one narrow way to look at it. I have situations, where I got all the time at hand to set everything up peacefully and figure out all exposure parameters myself or at least without using Auto-ISO. If taht is all you do, and you don't need it, just don't ever switch the camera into Auto-ISO.

However, I have aother situations too, were the light is constanly changing and there is a flurry of action around me and were I DO want the camera to take care of most if not all "technical aspects" of photography .. superb autofocus to instantly nail focus , smart metering to determine suitable exposure settings, and automatic modes that intelligently control and balance all three exposure relevant parameters ... most important aperture, then time, then ISO (kee it as low as possible within the framewrok of the other two paramters). I am FULLY occupied with anticipating whats happening, seeing it happen, framing it in the best possible way and following the action.

I don't care, if a landscape photographer calls this "lazy" or not. I want it that way. I pay for it. I want it fully funtioniong. ANd I am not going to spend 4k or 6k for a 1 series camera just to get a firmware feature that cCanon is withholding from its cliebnts who are buying "lesser" cameras. And even worse, Canon does not even manage to implement the feature really right in its flagship DSLRs.

As long as I am a paying Canon customer I will continue to criticize this ... until Canon finally puts it right.
So Canon employees, Canon fanboys and "HCB and Ansel Adams had no Auto-ISO"-old-schoolers ... brace yourself, but don't hold your breath.

 

[zim]

I’m really finding this Auto-ISO thing confusing so I have to admit I don’t use it. If in M mode Auto-ISO is fixed at 400 for some reason (500D), what’s ‘auto’ about that? In Av mode I fix f-stop, camera works out shutter speed for selected ISO but if in Av with Auto-ISO it does some kind of black magic to balance two variables instead of one? that just sounds like loosing control? What seems missing to me is some kind of ‘Iv’ mode where given two fixed settings f-stop and shutter speed the camera calculates ISO whatever that value turns out to be. All exposure compensation and bracketing functions would therefore work as other modes. Isn’t an Iv mode a logical extension of digital especially now that the higher ISO ratings are getting so good?

 

[meli]

If you really need autoiso buy a 1 series . I have and I use it by default, works perfectly and gives me ec for fine tuning.

I suppose you my say that this should come as default like it does in the D800 - to which I would say why doesn't the D800 give me 10fps. We could carry on forever that way.

The 5DIII has a limited AutoIso
The 1 series has the full AutoIso

Just buy the camera that suits you best and stop whining

Its a valid whining, 10fps is a hardware issue and one expects to pay the premium; deliberately crippling software you already have to make it unusable is just ridiculous.

Assuming it is just a firmware tweak, and I think you said you can do that in a few minutes or so... why dont you email canon and while you are at it, send them your resume.... surely what canon needs is forward thinking and innovation that they lack...

Yes surely, cause Canon has a trackrecord of incorporating user tweaks, ML for example, or i remember couple of years ago a hacked 400d (400d!) with features ranging from intervalometer to motion sensing.

And maybe a rebel model doesnt really need bells & whistles to sell, but 5d could take advantage of soft tweaks & it would be really cheap for Canon to do so, but no..., well they cheaped out the few pennies for a usb3 controller cant really see them try that hard for the rest...

 

[briansquibb]

If you really need autoiso buy a 1 series . I have and I use it by default, works perfectly and gives me ec for fine tuning.

I suppose you my say that this should come as default like it does in the D800 - to which I would say why doesn't the D800 give me 10fps. We could carry on forever that way.

The 5DIII has a limited AutoIso
The 1 series has the full AutoIso

Just buy the camera that suits you best and stop whining

What about this little problem: I can afford a 1 series but it's too loud in church for my preference. What do I do then? Suddenly, because someone decided to leave out a few thousand $ of software deliberately I cannot have the camera I would like.

Both the 5d and 1d are pro cameras. Canon need to learn that.

Let me think - did the 5DII have AutoIso?
Did the pros take good wedding photos?

No and yes - and you cant do it without AutoIso - says a lot about your ability

Even I managaged it as an amateur with a 5DII - makes you technically incompetant then I guess.

I suggest you go back to using P mode when it will all be taken care of for you

 

[awinphoto]

I’m really finding this Auto-ISO thing confusing so I have to admit I don’t use it. If in M mode Auto-ISO is fixed at 400 for some reason (500D), what’s ‘auto’ about that? In Av mode I fix f-stop, camera works out shutter speed for selected ISO but if in Av with Auto-ISO it does some kind of black magic to balance two variables instead of one? that just sounds like loosing control? What seems missing to me is some kind of ‘Iv’ mode where given two fixed settings f-stop and shutter speed the camera calculates ISO whatever that value turns out to be. All exposure compensation and bracketing functions would therefore work as other modes. Isn’t an Iv mode a logical extension of digital especially now that the higher ISO ratings are getting so good?

Auto ISO in the 7d and 5d3 works properly in all modes including M. the 5d2 and other xxd and xxxd cameras had the iso on manual locked at 400 for auto. When used in Av/ Tv/ and now M in the 7d and 5d3 plus 1 series, it tries to get correct exposures natively in the lowest ISO's possible but if it deems it too slow or to low light, it will jack your ISO's up until it can get a decent handholding exposure... decent being the key word. On the 5d3 you can set the minimum shutter speed so if in Av, you set f4 or whatever you want, and the camera will try not to go below your set minimum shutter unless it's maxed out at ISO and it's still to dark. Some people want faster minimum shutter speeds, which on the 5d3 is set at 1/250 and slower. But that's the crux of the griping on this thread.

 

[awinphoto]

We have gotten lazy as photographers in this sense and this whole thread proves it to a T.

Well, that is one narrow way to look at it. I have situations, where I got all the time at hand to set everything up peacefully and figure out all exposure parameters myself or at least without using Auto-ISO. If taht is all you do, and you don't need it, just don't ever switch the camera into Auto-ISO.

However, I have aother situations too, were the light is constanly changing and there is a flurry of action around me and were I DO want the camera to take care of most if not all "technical aspects" of photography .. superb autofocus to instantly nail focus , smart metering to determine suitable exposure settings, and automatic modes that intelligently control and balance all three exposure relevant parameters ... most important aperture, then time, then ISO (kee it as low as possible within the framewrok of the other two paramters). I am FULLY occupied with anticipating whats happening, seeing it happen, framing it in the best possible way and following the action.

I don't care, if a landscape photographer calls this "lazy" or not. I want it that way. I pay for it. I want it fully funtioniong. ANd I am not going to spend 4k or 6k for a 1 series camera just to get a firmware feature that cCanon is withholding from its cliebnts who are buying "lesser" cameras. And even worse, Canon does not even manage to implement the feature really right in its flagship DSLRs.

As long as I am a paying Canon customer I will continue to criticize this ... until Canon finally puts it right.
So Canon employees, Canon fanboys and "HCB and Ansel Adams had no Auto-ISO"-old-schoolers ... brace yourself, but don't hold your breath.

narrow or not narrow, we are griping about an auto function!!! If I'm the only one that see's the irony in that, then god help this forum. I use auto ISO every few days when i'm out and about shooting for commercial mortgage companies, one of my bigger clients... Going inside, outside, here, there, everywhere around the properties they own notes for, it's easier to let the camera do the heavy lifting there... but in the end of the day, from the 10D and 30D days where my camera was full manual everything to now, I make sure I know my camera intimately, I dont blame my gear if I miss a shot (with the exception of the 5d2's horrid AF), and I improve myself to make sure my gear and I get the best results for my clients. If the 1d series had software where it could read your eye, read your brain, and pump out award winning shots click after click, as far as I'm concerned with the gear I have, it doesn't phase me a bit. If nikon has "fully functioning auto iso" whooptie freaking doo. Auto ISO has never slowed me down in the past so what do I care if there's a better version out there. Evolve as a photographer, save up and buy better gear, or quit your whining because if I have to listen to this drivel for the next 2 and a half years so help me god.

 

[zim]

Thanks awinphoto, I actually understood that! ;D
So what I was describing was actually off topic, apologies for that.

 

[awinphoto]

Thanks awinphoto, I actually understood that! ;D
So what I was describing was actually off topic, apologies for that.

No prob... glad to help

 

[briansquibb]

I’m really finding this Auto-ISO thing confusing so I have to admit I don’t use it. If in M mode Auto-ISO is fixed at 400 for some reason (500D), what’s ‘auto’ about that? In Av mode I fix f-stop, camera works out shutter speed for selected ISO but if in Av with Auto-ISO it does some kind of black magic to balance two variables instead of one? that just sounds like loosing control? What seems missing to me is some kind of ‘Iv’ mode where given two fixed settings f-stop and shutter speed the camera calculates ISO whatever that value turns out to be. All exposure compensation and bracketing functions would therefore work as other modes. Isn’t an Iv mode a logical extension of digital especially now that the higher ISO ratings are getting so good?

In AV mode the 1 series allows you set the aperture and the minimum shutter speed(without the 1/250 restriction as in the 5DIII). As ISO is automatic, it adjusts the iso correct to get the correct exposure. If the ISO is calculated to be less than ISO 100 then the camera increases the shutter speed so the ISO goes to 100 or above. If the ISO is calculated to be 12800 or above then it slows the shutter speed even if that means the shutter speed goes below the minimum. As the camera is in AV mode then exposure compensation is also available for fine tuning.

The ISO 100 and ISO 12800 are the default ISO minimum and maximum - which are also configurable to, say ISO 200 and ISO 1600.

 

[PhilDrinkwater]

If you really need autoiso buy a 1 series . I have and I use it by default, works perfectly and gives me ec for fine tuning.

I suppose you my say that this should come as default like it does in the D800 - to which I would say why doesn't the D800 give me 10fps. We could carry on forever that way.

The 5DIII has a limited AutoIso
The 1 series has the full AutoIso

Just buy the camera that suits you best and stop whining

What about this little problem: I can afford a 1 series but it's too loud in church for my preference. What do I do then? Suddenly, because someone decided to leave out a few thousand $ of software deliberately I cannot have the camera I would like.

Both the 5d and 1d are pro cameras. Canon need to learn that.

Let me think - did the 5DII have AutoIso?
Did the pros take good wedding photos?

No and yes - and you cant do it without AutoIso - says a lot about your ability

Even I managaged it as an amateur with a 5DII - makes you technically incompetant then I guess.

I suggest you go back to using P mode when it will all be taken care of for you

Excuse ME! What an incredibly rude thing to say! As a pro I want to continue to improve my work. And when did I say I can't do without it? Please dont put words into my mouth.

Some people seem to believe there is a correlation between the quality of ones work and the mode used to capture it. You are clearly one of them. A little education for you: there isn't. Any one can expose an image - that I learned in an afternoon - but getting the best from people takes skill, personality and - above all - concentrating on the couple. By using auto tools I get this.

If you didn't understand this, all you had to do was ask. Instead you come out and accuse me of incompetency?

Feel free to click my links below to see my work. No flies on me. How about yourself?

And one of the Uks top paid photographers uses p mode so clearly you don't know what's important in wedding photography. Maybe stick to things you know about huh?

I'm out of here. I'm sorry to say that I didn't come onto this board to be publically accused of incompetency.

 

[briansquibb]

I suggest you go back to using P mode when it will all be taken care of for you

Excuse ME! What an incredibly rude thing to say!

And one of the Uks top paid photographers uses p mode so clearly you don't know what's important in wedding photography. Maybe stick to things you know about huh?

I can't win here - I am being rude suggesting you use P mode and then you tell me that one of the Uks top paid photographers uses p mode, and then tell me that I dont know whats important in wedding photography.

So I suggest doing what one of the Uks top paid photographers does and you tell me to stick to things I know about.

So is one of the Uks top paid photographers wrong then? Or are you just looking to insult me?

 

[AvTvM]

It is a shame this thread has gotten so out of hand!

We may have different opinions regarding use and usefulness of Auto-ISO per se and more specifically regarding Canon's implementations in the 5D 3 and other DSLRs. And we may state facts and opinions quite strongly and have a heated debate at times. That's certainly ok with me.

But I find it definitely uncalled for and totally unacceptable to insult a very civil and knowlegdable forum member by calling him "incompentent as a photographer". I very much regret PhilDrinkwater's decision to leave the forum, but I can fully understand him. He has deserved a full und unequivocal apology - even if he may not ever read it any more.

 

[briansquibb]

But I find it definitely uncalled for and totally unacceptable to insult a very civil and knowlegdable forum member by calling him "incompentent as a photographer".

I suggest you read the thread more carefully

I have suffered a morning of abuse and accusation by people that do not read threads carefully and accurately and then twist the words out of context into something that wasn't said.

 

[Loswr]

Sorry, Brian - as much as I generally disagree with AvTvM, I have to say that I don't think there's any way to interpret:

Even I managaged it as an amateur with a 5DII - makes you technically incompetant then I guess.

...as anything other than rude and insulting (not to mention unwarranted).

 

[briansquibb]

Sorry, Brian - as much as I generally disagree with AvTvM, I have to say that I don't think there's any way to interpret:

Even I managaged it as an amateur with a 5DII - makes you technically incompetant then I guess.

...as anything other than rude and insulting (not to mention unwarranted).

My apologies - this remark was out of order.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Re: OMG the camera cannot read my mind! WTF

Phil, I get your point and i'm all about innovation, or i wouldn't have gotten to where i am. You have auto ISO, you have a minimum shutter speed you can set and the camera will abide by as long as it can get an accurate exposure, but in the end it is not a mind reader... For what i'm concerned, the camera can do so much, it can calculate the exposure, calculate exposure based on the parameters of the min shutter THAT YOU SET, and there you go... unless you are shooting 400mm lenses or bigger and or teleconverters, the 1/250 minimum is plenty adequate unless you are shooting some oddball thing like races or whatever... then in those situations where shutter is important, one click from AV to TV solves the shutter requirement issues. This thread can be retitled.

The whole point of AutoISO other than a few who want it just for pure convenience is to switch things when thigns are going on too fast to do things yourself and in those scenarios 1/250th is usually frightfully too slow. Wayyy slow for wildlife or sports.

And what are you defending it for? It's like a single byte of code difference would fix it and every other manufacturer gets it right and puts in at all tiers top to BOTTOM.

Again autoiso is hardly an end of the world thing, but what on earth is wrong with Canon marketing? Why cripple such a little thing for no reason when all it does is erode customer loyalty. That is one and only thing Canon gets out of doing it.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Re: OMG the camera cannot read my mind! WTF

.. then in those situations where shutter is important, one click from AV to TV solves the shutter requirement issues. This thread can be retitled.

Yes if you have a screwdriver and glue so you can open up the lens and fix the aperture you want to shoot it in..

Well a tip from one professional to another, if you shoot on P or that shiney green box setting it will do all the guess work for ya! how bout that? a mind reading camera... we photographers have gotten spoiled... the difficulty, the discipline needed to be a professional has gone by the wayside and whats left? People who want the camera to do it all for them and all they have to do is click a button. It's a sad reality we live in.

What on earth are you going on about? What does P mode or the camera solves everything for you have to do with anything under discussion here?

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

To be honest I'm disappointed about the attitude here. We aren't talking about a light leak which affects virtually no one ever - we're talking about a feature which is still not right in *3* generations of cameras.

I'm not talking about sending my camera back, switching brands or even moaning if canon made me pay for it: but this is an important feature for me, a 1d is too loud and I don't want to switch brands.

By moaning, maybe someone will notice and give me what *i* want in the camera considering its just a firmware tweak?

Assuming it is just a firmware tweak, and I think you said you can do that in a few minutes or so... why dont you email canon and while you are at it, send them your resume.... surely what canon needs is forward thinking and innovation that they lack...

Of course it's just a couple byte tweak, all it has is some code that stores the limit as 1/250th when it could store it the limit as say 1/2000th, all you do is change the list of options it offers you and add a few more numbers to the list. It probably would take them about 1 minutes of coding to fix. Adding EC in M AutoISO might take a bit more, but likely not much, unless the camera has some sort of mode/dial based interrupt system and they have it set up in some messy way, then it might become a little involved.