BUY 5d MkII now or WAIT for 5d MkIII????

[chrismartinez.co.uk]

i would like to go full frame ASAP too, and i dont really know why im holding out for the mkIII...but i am

i have a 7D at the moment and the only real advantage of the 5DII over the 7D seems to be that it's full frame (i apprecaite that's a pretty big advantage )

im sure im missing some others things too but the 5DII seems like a small step backwards in some areas vs the 7D (for my requirements), which i probably why im holding out, plus im not sure i really need to go full frame yet, but would just like to.

i guess that's what it comes down to, if you need a great (FF) camera now then the mkII is a great camera, if you can wait then wait (and wait...and wait)

 

[jeremymerriam]

ill wait a bit longer for 5dIII but not into 2012, i think its time to start looking at nikon. Im not too heavily invested in canon.

A good photographer isn't the guy in line always waiting for the newest, greatest technology. A good photographer is someone who can shoot with any old camera and still make great pictures.

Maybe you should stop worrying about camera updates and the company to go with and start focusing on just shooting to become a better and better photographer?

 

[Ghostdive]

Thats correct. Last time I get better pictures with my old 400D as another with his 7D. It has also a lot todo how you know you camera.
And on top I forgott my 24-105 and had only the 70-300
But think also about an replacement to do the noise(you see it at iso200 starting) and focus-speed in low-light.
But the most time, it works as expected. So I can wait.

 

[steven63]

A good photographer isn't the guy in line always waiting for the newest, greatest technology. A good photographer is someone who can shoot with any old camera and still make great pictures.

True enough. But I don't know many that would pass up the opportunity if given the chance to shoot with the latest technology for something 3 -4 years old.

I just bought the Mii yesterday - because it was in town (only one I saw) and the price was back to 'normal'.

Playing with it last night made me wonder why I waited. I have a 7d and thought it was good enough until I looked at the files from the Mii.

 

[gene_can_sing]

All I know is, keep buying 5D2, and it's a safe bet that the 5D3 will take longer and longer to come out. Simple laws of corporate economics. No reason to update if the current product (which is about 3 to 4 years old depending on the camera) still sells well.

 

[steven63]

All I know is, keep buying 5D2, and it's a safe bet that the 5D3 will take longer and longer to come out. Simple laws of corporate economics. No reason to update if the current product (which is about 3 to 4 years old depending on the camera) still sells well.

While I would agree with that IF the company in question had a monopoly over the market, I can't agree with it here. In order for this to be true both Nikon and Sony would have to be in the same boat. But even then would any one of them be willing to take the chance that the other two are content relying on old technology? I'm convinced that all top end camera manufacturers are committed to providing the best, latest, and greatest they have to offer (at price points) in order to continue to be relevant.

THAT is a simple law of corporate economics.

 

[aldvan]

Playing with it last night made me wonder why I waited. I have a 7d and thought it was good enough until I looked at the files from the Mii.

That's the point. You can speak about AF system, DR, S/N etc... but try to compare, visually on a big monitor, 7D and 5DMkII files and any doubt will disappear. I have a 5DMkII and a 7D, but my strong decision is to sell the second and go FF with both my bodies. The only reason tha holds me to buy a second 5DMkII is not to put money on a second body that is going to be replaced, so just a psycocommercial reason. But to have to 5DMkII perfectly identical should be a great kit...

 

[UncleFester]

i have a 7D at the moment and the only real advantage of the 5DII over the 7D seems to be that it's full frame (i apprecaite that's a pretty big advantage )

Image quality + file size + DOF + low-light performance (simply amazing) .

 

[dr croubie]

Image quality + file size + DOF + low-light performance (simply amazing) .

Image quality + file size + DOF + low-light performance + FF - 8fps - €700 - AF - 60fps video - pixel density (i think it's been proven a 7d takes a better long shot than the same lens on a 5d, cropped and up-ressed).

all depends on where your priorities lie. the extra €700 in that equation swung it for me, or i'd have gone a 5d2...

 

[UncleFester]

Image quality + file size + DOF + low-light performance (simply amazing) .

Image quality + file size + DOF + low-light performance + FF - 8fps - €700 - AF - 60fps video - pixel density (i think it's been proven a 7d takes a better long shot than the same lens on a 5d, cropped and up-ressed).

all depends on where your priorities lie. the extra €700 in that equation swung it for me, or i'd have gone a 5d2...

I'll agree that the 5D is missing the 60fps, which I could actually use. But, what do you mean by a "better long shot"? More reach for the 1.6x with 18 megapixels? That's understandable.

I'd get a 7d in a heartbeat if I thought the IQ was at least as good as (in all situations) the 5D II. But I've seen nothing that proves that in real shooting (wildlife for me).

I'm not knocking the 7D as I'm sure it's a great cam. I went through thousands of images weighing whether I should get a the 7D over the 5D II. And I knew I was giving up some hi-tech features by choosing the 5D. But Image quality was the biggest deciding factor. Esp in low light.

 

[dr croubie]

But, what do you mean by a "better long shot"? More reach for the 1.6x with 18 megapixels? That's understandable.

Basically, take any lens (although it makes more sense with a long/telephoto). put it on the 7D, take a shot.
put the same lens on a 5d2, take the same shot at the same iso/f/shutter.
crop the edges off the 5d2 shot so that they have the same framing.
increase the resolution of the 5d2 shot to the 18MP of the 7d shot, and compare.
the 7D has better IQ (i'm sure i've seen this tested, but can't find it right now).


note: *not* the same test as this one, that's testing a lens+body combination to get the exact same shot. my test above is a "you already own a lens, what body is better?" question...

 

[Loswr]

note: *not* the same test as this one, that's testing a lens+body combination to get the exact same shot. my test above is a "you already own a lens, what body is better?" question...

Actually, I did that flavor of the comparison in this other one - same scene, same distance, 7D vs. 5DII, using both the 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS and the the 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS @ 400mm. Some reprocessing of the RAW files by others confirms that the 7D is the winner in that scenario.

Sure, if you can get closer to the subject or use a longer lens, instead of having to crop, the 5DII will produce better IQ. But that's from a reductionist standpoint - the IQ will be better assuming the 5DII can accurately focus and track the subject if motion is involved, and that the frame rate is adequate to capture 'the moment'. Here's a shot with my 7D that would have been a real challenge for a 5DII, perhaps too much of a challenge:


EOS 7D, EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM @ 400mm, 1/1600 s, f/6.3, ISO 1600

 

[steven63]

Both the 7d and 5dMii are excellent cameras that serve different purposes. If you are lucky enough to own both, you've pretty well covered any situation where you wouldn't otherwise get the shot and you'll be happy for years.

Alternatively, you could buy the 1dsMiii and the 1dMiv to cover your bases and spend 3 times as much. Personally, I'd rather spend the savings on lenses.

1dsMiii = 1dmii sensor (some would argue the mii sensor is a bit better).

1dMiv > 7d with two more fps and a little bit better AF system but NOT $US3500.00 more.

I know both of these flagships offer other benefits but unless you really, really, REALLY need them the 5dMii and 7d are more than up to the challenge.

With all of that said if the 5dMiii (when released) has anything close to the abilities of the 7d with FF I'd consider getting rid of my 5dMii and 7d for it.

Just my 2c.

 

[dwward]

Here is my situation,
If i am going to buy the 5d mark II now, i still have to wait for a month at least because all stocks are out currently....

A quick check at Amazon indicates they have both the body only and the kit in stock and can deliver tomorrow if you want to pay the extra shipping.

 

[aldvan]

Both the 7d and 5dMii are excellent cameras that serve different purposes. If you are lucky enough to own both, you've pretty well covered any situation where you wouldn't otherwise get the shot and you'll be happy for years.

Unfortunately, until now, in MY real world, always I had to regret to have the right lens on the 7D instead of the 5DMkII...

 

[gene_can_sing]

All I know is, keep buying 5D2, and it's a safe bet that the 5D3 will take longer and longer to come out. Simple laws of corporate economics. No reason to update if the current product (which is about 3 to 4 years old depending on the camera) still sells well.

While I would agree with that IF the company in question had a monopoly over the market, I can't agree with it here. In order for this to be true both Nikon and Sony would have to be in the same boat. But even then would any one of them be willing to take the chance that the other two are content relying on old technology? I'm convinced that all top end camera manufacturers are committed to providing the best, latest, and greatest they have to offer (at price points) in order to continue to be relevant.

THAT is a simple law of corporate economics.

Honestly, do you really think Canon, Nikon and Sony are just going to release their best technology the moment it surfaces? "Committed to providing the best, latest, and greatest they have to offer (at price points) in order to continue to be relevant." That is so completely naive. The corporate game is called making money - and that is the bottom line, not providing the consumer with the best technology the moment it comes out. If that were the case, the current crop of cameras would be far more advanced.

For computers that might be true, but in the camera world there are only a handful of manufactures, and even fewer major players (basically Canon and Nikon, and sort-of Sony). They can afford to sit on tech for a lot longer than say... Apple or Microsoft who have numerous competitors.

Also, Canon knows that once you've invested heavily into their system, you are at their mercy and they do use that to their advantage. It's not like Dell, where if you don't like the computer, you can basically just toss it and there are 100 different identical computers out there. With Canon, you're stuck with their lenses, so you have to keep buying their bodies. And that also allows them to sit on their products and milk you for a lot longer.

So yes, keep buying 5d2, and the 5d3 will take a lot longer to surface. Canon is not stupid in the money making game and no, they are not here to give you the best for your buck. That is why the models are tiered.

 

[Loswr]

Honestly, do you really think Canon, Nikon and Sony are just going to release their best technology the moment it surfaces? "Committed to providing the best, latest, and greatest they have to offer (at price points) in order to continue to be relevant." That is so completely naive. The corporate game is called making money - and that is the bottom line, not providing the consumer with the best technology the moment it comes out. If that were the case, the current crop of cameras would be far more advanced....They can afford to sit on tech for a lot longer...

Does that explain why Canon has released a new Rebel/xxxD camera every year, like clockwork, for the past several years? With the exception of the most recent release, each has featured a new sensor. Each has received the latest advancements (e.g. wireless flash control in the T3i/600D).

 

[dr croubie]

Does that explain why Canon has released a new Rebel/xxxD camera every year, like clockwork, for the past several years? With the exception of the most recent release, each has featured a new sensor. Each has received the latest advancements (e.g. wireless flash control in the T3i/600D).

maybe it's the shops i look at, but they seem to keep lots of old models in stock a lot longer. my local shop has the 500/550/600 all in stock, it even marks the 500 and 550 bodies as "popular", the 600 as "new".
(but it only has the 1100, not 1000, 60 not 50, and no 1ds3 anymore.)

anyway, releasing new models every year in the xxxD line makes much better marketing sense, noone's really going to upgrade with less than a 150-difference i reckon (ie, 400D or 450D-600D makes upgrade sense, 500d-600d makes less sense), so it really doesn't matter if they repeat the sensor or whatever in a few models.

and throwing the latest sensor into the xxxD lines doesn't cannibalise much from the higher lines, even from the xxD (except those who bought the 550d before the 60d came out, like my sister). i'd be guessing that people going the 60d want a bit better quality, and the 550/600d are generally beginners not wanting to invest too much (or those who don't have the cash for 60d anyway).
the manufacturing benefits of just throwing in the latest sensor are huge, one piece for a lot of products, with no extra r&d costs, the marketing benefits of a low-cost 18mp camera far outweigh the tiny loss they'll make from potential 60d-buyers...

 

[steven63]

So yes, keep buying 5d2, and the 5d3 will take a lot longer to surface. Canon is not stupid in the money making game and no, they are not here to give you the best for your buck. That is why the models are tiered.

Models are tiered to provide customers with options and to help a company diversify so that if one segment tanks the other will hopefully keep your company afloat. The genious in this strategy is that your upper segment feeds your lower segment. So research dollars are spent to 'keep feeding the monster' which is the corporation.

Developing technology at the high end only to withhold it because sales are strong in that segment while hoping your competitors do the same thing results in a company that soon goes out of business.

Holding back technology slows down the cascading affect to your lower product lines. Holding back technology that you've spent millions (billions?) developing and hoping that your competitors are going to use the same business model is suicide.

The only companies that develop technology so that they can lock it in a dark room and not make it available are the companies that never see the light of day: the model is poor and not economically viable.

I am confident that had there been no earthquake or tsunami in Japan you would have seen an announcement for the 5dMiii by now. Or does anyone think that's just a coincidence, and what they are really doing is holding back technology because of strong sales on a product they can't fill the shelves with BECAUSE of the production delays due to the earthquake?

I mean really think about that for a minute.

 

[Loswr]

Holding back technology slows down the cascading affect to your lower product lines. Holding back technology that you've spent millions (billions?) developing and hoping that your competitors are going to use the same business model is suicide.

The idea is return on investment, and if there's too long a lag between investment and return, that's bad. Very bad. Speaking from personal experience, that's one big reason the pharmaceutical industry is under pressure - invest $1B in R&D, wait 10 years, and hope your drug gets approved and achieves blockbuster status. It's not really a viable business model, which is why there's so much M&A (aka cannibalism) occurring across the industry.

The corporate game is called making money - and that is the bottom line

Exactly - the 5DII is still selling well (or so we think, but that's an assumption based on a complete lack of data, AFAIK). But, let's assume it's true. If Canon starts producing 5DIII's instead of 5DII's, they're not using additional resources for production, merely shifting resoures. If they have a 5DIII ready for release, then the R&D money is already spent, and they're not realizing any increase in net present value from it. If they sit on a 5DIII and continue producing the 5DII, then:

• people considering buying a 5DII would buy a 5DII

If they release a 5DIII and discontinue the 5DII:

• people considering buying a 5DII would buy a 5DIII instead
• people waiting for a 5DIII would buy a 5DIII
• people with a 5DII would upgrade to a 5DIII

Logic would indicate that since the former is a subset of the latter, the latter must be a larger population. That means more sales, and more money...and as you correctly stated, that's the whole point of the 'corporate game'.