Camera setup for dental clinic

[Perio]

Hello guys, I hope you all are doing great. I need a camera+macro lens+macro ring combo to photograph teeth and other stuff in the mouth in dental patients. So, I have two options and I need your help.

1. I have an old 5di which I can use in the clinic. But I need macro lens and macro flash. For a lens, I'm deciding between 100mm f2.8L and non-L. How good is the quality of the non-L lens, which is much cheaper than L one? What macro ring would you recommend besides the one Canon makes ($500)?

2. Get a crop camera, 60mm f2.8 EF-S and macro ring. How good is 60mm f2.8 lens?

I don't need top quality of the pictures, but it should be at least very good. All other people in the clinic use Nikon

Thanks!

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

A camera with LIVE VIEW will greatly facilitate to photograph the teeth inside the mouth. An APS-C camera makes it even easier because of the depth of field wider. If the camera has an articulated LCD, will be great. I recommend Canon 70D + EF-S 60mm macro + ring LED continuous light.
See the link for a suggestion LED light ring.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/902798-REG/Interfit_str172_Strobies_LED_Macro_Ring.html/ul/P/umse/0

However, any current Rebel model will do a decent job. Both Canon 60mm and 100mm macro has great picture quality. The advantage of the 100mm L is the Image Stabilizer, and sharpness a little higher, and the BOKEH when used in F2.8. But for the photos of the teeth you will often use F11, and then the quality of the lens will be the same.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

I think I have a good EF 60mm Macro lens if you're interested. I agree that live view + articulated screen would be a good setup. I also have a 60D to go with the 60mm!

IMHO, you could probably do fine with a 3rd party macro light, at least until you're sure that the equipment setup is working the way you expect.

Question: How do you plan to get the image files transferred over to the computer/dental software? Eye-Fi perhaps??

I'm an IT Guy and I've worked with a few dental offices. Does your dental office software have a easy to use photo import feature to attach photos to the patients' record files? Do you already have an iCat or other type of x-ray device that your dental software manages the image files from?

My thought is that the camera might be the easiest part. The hard part is getting the photos imported and attached to the patient records correctly and easy enough that the entire staff can do it correctly every time.

Don't forget that whatever workflow you come up with should adhere to the HIPAA laws. (Like the WiFi must be encrypted and ideally the SD cards never leave the camera to avoid loss/theft/confusion.)

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Canon sold a 10D with 100 macro and ring flash that is still the standard in many dental clinics.


I'd suggest a 70D plus a 100mm L with a ring flash as being a little more modern. The live view insures that you get what you need in one shot, and the IS helps stabilize the image so you can focus on the right spot.


With the 5D MK I, you will need a longer macro lens, look for a 150-200mm macro lens for the approximate same FOV on a FF camera.


All the Macro lenses tend to be excellent, so don't fuss over the brand.

 

[Perio]

All right, I completely forgot about the live view. I guess now it's time to look for a good deal on some crop cameras. Did you have a chance to use that LED light ring?

A camera with LIVE VIEW will greatly facilitate to photograph the teeth inside the mouth. An APS-C camera makes it even easier because of the depth of field wider. If the camera has an articulated LCD, will be great. I recommend Canon 70D + EF-S 60mm macro + ring LED continuous light.
See the link for a suggestion LED light ring.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/902798-REG/Interfit_str172_Strobies_LED_Macro_Ring.html/ul/P/umse/0

However, any current Rebel model will do a decent job. Both Canon 60mm and 100mm macro has great picture quality. The advantage of the 100mm L is the Image Stabilizer, and sharpness a little higher, and the BOKEH when used in F2.8. But for the photos of the teeth you will often use F11, and then the quality of the lens will be the same.

 

[Perio]

I wish I knew the answers, but I just started my residency 2 weeks ago and didn't have a chance to figure out all these details. I'll ask current residents and faculty how they transfer the images

I think I have a good EF 60mm Macro lens if you're interested. I agree that live view + articulated screen would be a good setup. I also have a 60D to go with the 60mm!

IMHO, you could probably do fine with a 3rd party macro light, at least until you're sure that the equipment setup is working the way you expect.

Question: How do you plan to get the image files transferred over to the computer/dental software? Eye-Fi perhaps??

I'm an IT Guy and I've worked with a few dental offices. Does your dental office software have a easy to use photo import feature to attach photos to the patients' record files? Do you already have an iCat or other type of x-ray device that your dental software manages the image files from?

My thought is that the camera might be the easiest part. The hard part is getting the photos imported and attached to the patient records correctly and easy enough that the entire staff can do it correctly every time.

Don't forget that whatever workflow you come up with should adhere to the HIPAA laws. (Like the WiFi must be encrypted and ideally the SD cards never leave the camera to avoid loss/theft/confusion.)

 

[Perio]

Thank you! I see prices for 7d are going down quite rapidly these past weeks. Would it be better to get 7d instead of 70d? Do you have any experience with third-party macro ring flashes? I really don't want to pay $500 for Canon's one.

Will check the deals on Nikon and maybe Pentax and see what would be the best bang for the buck.

Canon sold a 10D with 100 macro and ring flash that is still the standard in many dental clinics.


I'd suggest a 70D plus a 100mm L with a ring flash as being a little more modern. The live view insures that you get what you need in one shot, and the IS helps stabilize the image so you can focus on the right spot.


With the 5D MK I, you will need a longer macro lens, look for a 150-200mm macro lens for the approximate same FOV on a FF camera.


All the Macro lenses tend to be excellent, so don't fuss over the brand.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Thank you! I see prices for 7d are going down quite rapidly these past weeks. Would it be better to get 7d instead of 70d? Do you have any experience with third-party macro ring flashes? I really don't want to pay $500 for Canon's one.

Will check the deals on Nikon and maybe Pentax and see what would be the best bang for the buck.

Canon sold a 10D with 100 macro and ring flash that is still the standard in many dental clinics.


I'd suggest a 70D plus a 100mm L with a ring flash as being a little more modern. The live view insures that you get what you need in one shot, and the IS helps stabilize the image so you can focus on the right spot.


With the 5D MK I, you will need a longer macro lens, look for a 150-200mm macro lens for the approximate same FOV on a FF camera.


All the Macro lenses tend to be excellent, so don't fuss over the brand.

I'd go for the better live view performance of the 70D. Since it uses the sensor for phase detect autofocus, it does provide excellent autofocus accuracy and speed. The 70D has some features like many FPS, but you will want focus speed and accuracy more than FPS. The 70D also contains much of the 7D Autofocus module when not in live view, so you basically lose the FPS and the studlier build.


A 70D can be had for less or the same as a 7D.

 

[Halfrack]

Looks like the 100mm non-L macro is what others are using

http://www.photomed.net/components.htm

 

[RustyTheGeek]

Looks like the 100mm non-L macro is what others are using

http://www.photomed.net/components.htm

I did some web searching as well and it appears that just about any decent lens, esp the macro lenses will work. The real trick appears to involve using special mirrors inside the mouth to help expose the target tooth, etc.

Personally, I would probably just get a decent Rebel body, EF (not L) macro lens and a decent aftermarket flash and/or ring light.

 

[Perio]

All right, thanks for your suggestions. Yup, we'll be using special mirrors to take all intraoral pictures. I've asked the same question on N forum as well, and I was told LED light flash is not good. So, I guess I'd have to get a Canon's or Sigma's macro ring flash. Oh well, that's all right.

If someone has a good copy of 60 EF-S and macro ring flash, let me know )

Looks like the 100mm non-L macro is what others are using

http://www.photomed.net/components.htm

I did some web searching as well and it appears that just about any decent lens, esp the macro lenses will work. The real trick appears to involve using special mirrors inside the mouth to help expose the target tooth, etc.

Personally, I would probably just get a decent Rebel body, EF (not L) macro lens and a decent aftermarket flash and/or ring light.

 

[Logan]

my dentist has the canon dentist kit with the 100L (dont think they sell the kit anymore, it used to come all the required accessories in a hard case) and uses it tethered to a laptop on a little rolling cart.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

my dentist has the canon dentist kit with the 100L (dont think they sell the kit anymore, it used to come all the required accessories in a hard case) and uses it tethered to a laptop on a little rolling cart.

it likely did not have the 100L, its a new lens. They used the older 100mm macros, original or USM. They are fine for his purpose, but slow to focus at short distances.

 

[wsmith96]

I have a good copy of the 60 macro, but no ring flash. I can tell you that the 60 macro can produce some amazing photographs. If you choose to use a crop camera, you will be happy with the results of the 60 macro.

 

[KitsVancouver]

Hello guys, I hope you all are doing great. I need a camera+macro lens+macro ring combo to photograph teeth and other stuff in the mouth in dental patients. So, I have two options and I need your help.

1. I have an old 5di which I can use in the clinic. But I need macro lens and macro flash. For a lens, I'm deciding between 100mm f2.8L and non-L. How good is the quality of the non-L lens, which is much cheaper than L one? What macro ring would you recommend besides the one Canon makes ($500)?

2. Get a crop camera, 60mm f2.8 EF-S and macro ring. How good is 60mm f2.8 lens?

I don't need top quality of the pictures, but it should be at least very good. All other people in the clinic use Nikon

Thanks!

Are you looking to take photos more for restorative or cosmetic dentistry?

If you are looking for cosmetic photos, then live view isn't that useful. Most patients are going to be happy with before and after photos as long as you get their veneer colours to match well. The problem with veneer colouring is often educating the patient on the changing colour of their non-veneered teeth. Some patients after getting a veneer, implant, etc will still not be happy with the colour after the tooth is done.
If you are looking for cosmetic photos for a portfolio, then that's a different matter and probably a much bigger discussion.

Restorative dentistry photos are really tricky. I've seen a bunch of dentists buy the G-series dentist kit and rarely take it out of the aluminum box.
As for live view...you're never going to use it because it's only useful on a tripod. One thing to keep in mind is that with the 100L, you will still need to be quite close to get shots inside the mouth in which case, your depth of field is going to be very very shallow. Definitely get the L 100mm macro because of the IS.

 

[KitsVancouver]

Hello guys, I hope you all are doing great. I need a camera+macro lens+macro ring combo to photograph teeth and other stuff in the mouth in dental patients. So, I have two options and I need your help.

1. I have an old 5di which I can use in the clinic. But I need macro lens and macro flash. For a lens, I'm deciding between 100mm f2.8L and non-L. How good is the quality of the non-L lens, which is much cheaper than L one? What macro ring would you recommend besides the one Canon makes ($500)?

2. Get a crop camera, 60mm f2.8 EF-S and macro ring. How good is 60mm f2.8 lens?

I don't need top quality of the pictures, but it should be at least very good. All other people in the clinic use Nikon

Thanks!

Just noticed your user name. I'm assuming you're a periodontist in which case, you're looking at mostly cosmetic. Definitely get the 100L. You might want to consider getting a tripod but that could scare some of your patients.

 

[seekn]

Hey I'm a general dentist, I use Canon outside the office and Nikon in the office so my setup will be different. What I can tell you is that you don't really need a great body. I bought an entry level Nikon and it works just fine - you really need a good lens and ringflash. I use the 100 mm macro because it gives you a farther focal distance than the 60 I believe so you are not up in the patient's face.
Also I bump the ISO up a lot - around 1600 (a lot for the cheap Nikon) so that I can at least get a f5.6 aperture range - enough to get a few teeth in focus.
I use a single point focus and everything seems to work out fine. Just make sure you point it at an area of high conrast - the contact area, or margin is often a good focal spot.
I also use the operatory light to give me the extra lighting I need in the posterior, not too direct though to cause a blowout.
Most dental images are for web use only so resolution and grain are not that much of a concern. There really is no need for a tripod or anything.
Hope this helps.

 

[Sabaki]

Canon EF 100mm Macro (non L) with the MR-14EX ringflash

The L is a better lens but your use is not that of a macro fundi. And you'll need the 67C macro adaptor which is further expense too

 

[Hillsilly]

They used the older 100mm macros, original or USM. They are fine for his purpose, but slow to focus at short distances.

I've got the original 100mm macro (ie non USM). It is a good sharp lens. But focusing at close distances is very, very painful - it likes to leisurely hunt and hunt and hunt. I typically keep mine on manual focus. But if you can pick a good one up cheap and don't need snappy focusing speed, you won't be disappointed with the image quality.

 

[spacetimeroger]

They used the older 100mm macros, original or USM. They are fine for his purpose, but slow to focus at short distances.

I've got the original 100mm macro (ie non USM). It is a good sharp lens. But focusing at close distances is very, very painful - it likes to leisurely hunt and hunt and hunt. I typically keep mine on manual focus. But if you can pick a good one up cheap and don't need snappy focusing speed, you won't be disappointed with the image quality.

re: the original (non USM) 100mm macro - that's one of the sharpest lenses I've ever used, although the AF is not terribly speedy. From what I understand, the USM version is optically the same. My father was/is a dentist, and I remember all of this stuff growing up (He used the 100mm non USM macro on an EOS-1 film body) The first camera I really remember w/regards to dental photography was the Yashica Dental Eye II.