Cameras must be put in checked luggage on international flights

[bluenoser1993]

I thought we'd veered off into a discussion on how safe or unsafe the middle east is compared to Europe or the US. On a photography forum, I thought it might be relevant to find out how safe the middle east might be. I think almost everyone I've spoken to who has travelled to the more fundamentalist regions has been assaulted for taking photos. Is that bad luck, or is that an expected outcome?

I never felt unsafe in Saudi Arabia (though the Mosque next to the hotel I stayed in has since been blown up), but I definitely wasn't treated very nice. The camera and computer ban would have been a moot point while I worked there, as I was forbidden to have them.

 

[LDS]

I thought we'd veered off into a discussion on how safe or unsafe the middle east is compared to Europe or the US. On a photography forum, I thought it might be relevant to find out how safe the middle east might be. I think almost everyone I've spoken to who has travelled to the more fundamentalist regions has been assaulted for taking photos. Is that bad luck, or is that an expected outcome?

There's no a "single" Middle East, you need to be more specific. In some places of course it's better to avoid popping up naively to take photos, but that's true outside Middle East as well.

"Fundamentalist" doesn't automatically mean "dangerously violent" or "criminal", although it can take a wrong move to turn the situation into a bad one (just like in some district of some Western cities...) . Moving with a reputable local guide when you go outside the big cities and the classic tourist venues is usually advisable. It will allows to contact people, and understand if taking photos is OK or not. Usually being polite and respectful helps.

Entering are with known criminal/fighting activities requires far more care and preparation.

But in these days that's true in some parts of Ukraine as well, for example.

 

[Hillsilly]

I usually fly Emirates, which means stopping in Dubai. I've never stepped outside the airport, but I've always been curious about spending a week or two somewhere around there. By middle east, I've nowhere specific in mind. Cairo, Mecca and Medina are probably the most likely destinations. I'd like to get out and see more of the countryside, but I'm not really a tour group person. And I don't think girls can drive in Saudi Arabia anyway (even if you are tourists), so I'm not even sure how I'd get around.

 

[LDS]

I usually fly Emirates, which means stopping in Dubai. I've never stepped outside the airport, but I've always been curious about spending a week or two somewhere around there. By middle east, I've nowhere specific in mind. Cairo, Mecca and Medina are probably the most likely destinations. I'd like to get out and see more of the countryside, but I'm not really a tour group person. And I don't think girls can drive in Saudi Arabia anyway (even if you are tourists), so I'm not even sure how I'd get around.

I spent time in Dubai and Sharjah. The latter aims to be the "cultural" and more "conservative" emirate, but even there it was quite liberal for being a Muslim state. Dubai is quite cosmopolitan, and you'll find as well many women from Europe and other countries working there. I took trips to the coast, the desert and the mountains in Oman (hiring guides), without troubles.

Saudi Arabia is of course a very different country, and I guess it's quite difficult, if not impossible, for a woman to travel alone there. I've been in Egypt too many years ago, I won't comment on the actual situation.

I'm not too a tour group person, and prefer to setup my own tours. But in many countries, especially when going outside the main cities and touristic area, I prefer to hire a guide, he or she will help to save time and move quickly, avoid potentially dangerous situations, and act as an interpreter to communicate with people easily and avoid misunderstandings.

For example even when I traveled some years ago across Moldova to photograph landscapes, country villages, ancient monasteries and fortresses, I had to be careful to avoid to cross inadvertently the border with the Transnistria disputed region, back then it could mean some uncomfortable time spent with local police, especially if caught with lots of photo gear.

 

[Don Haines]

I rather doubt that this is about security.... It is most likely about economics.......

Ban laptops from the competitor's jets.... business travelers (the most profitable sector of the flying public) will go to another airline where they can use them..... and market share of those "native" carriers goes up. This is just an extension of "buy American".......

Same holds for tourists and cameras.....

 

[tron]

According to BBC

The nine airlines affected are:
Royal Jordanian
Egypt Air
Turkish Airlines
Saudi Arabian Airlines
Kuwait Airways
Royal Air Maroc
Qatar Airways
Emirates
Etihad Airways

The countries:
Morocco
Turkey
Egypt
Jordan
Saudi Arabia
Kuwait
Qatar
United Arab Emirates

Hmmm. My most used airlines and hubs... Actually quite difficult to avoid Istanbul and UAE when you do a lot of intercontinental traveling Asia/Europe/US.

I think there is a bypass. You can reroute if you can afford some more money and time of course. Not ideal but doable. Go from Instabul to Athens or Sofia and fly from there back home. And you get to visit other places at the same time 8) 8) 8)

 

[Maiaibing]

I was on vacation in France on Sept. 11, 2001, scheduled to fly back to Canada two days later. When my flight was re-scheduled and i got to the airport, I was told my camera bag and all my film had to go into the luggage hold. I was distraught, figuring it would be stolen.

The problem is that as soon as this policy spreads - and it will - people working at airports will have a lot more motivation to open your bags and "clean" them out.

Now, I already have my own list of airports where I leave nothing of value - and I mean nothing as not even a pair of hq sun glasses - in my luggage. This will be a disaster for a lot of travel destinations.

Cannot wait for the first flight company to offer "safe" transport of our valuables for a "modest" fee...

 

[Maiaibing]

According to BBC

The nine airlines affected are:
The countries:

Hmmm. My most used airlines and hubs... Actually quite difficult to avoid Istanbul and UAE when you do a lot of intercontinental traveling Asia/Europe/US.

I think there is a bypass. You can reroute if you can afford some more money and time of course. Not ideal but doable. Go from Instabul to Athens or Sofia and fly from there back home. And you get to visit other places at the same time 8) 8) 8)

Yes. But my problem is time - not money. My travel planning is literally about making every minute count. And I fear this will quickly spread to others as well. And once implemented, it never gets removed.

 

[GMCPhotographics]

I thought we'd veered off into a discussion on how safe or unsafe the middle east is compared to Europe or the US. On a photography forum, I thought it might be relevant to find out how safe the middle east might be. I think almost everyone I've spoken to who has travelled to the more fundamentalist regions has been assaulted for taking photos. Is that bad luck, or is that an expected outcome?

I never felt unsafe in Saudi Arabia (though the Mosque next to the hotel I stayed in has since been blown up), but I definitely wasn't treated very nice. The camera and computer ban would have been a moot point while I worked there, as I was forbidden to have them.

Poking a humorous finger here...so you felt safe in an unsafe radicalised country with far right oppressive rules? How safe would you have felt if you were Jewish? Now very I suspect and yet I can't think of a single Jewish terrorist. But I can name an awful lot of Islamic ones, mostly with Saudi inspired Wabbist theology.

 

[lion rock]

Now there is a chance for airlines to offer another "service" at a price! Rent you one of their laptops for the flight in additional to WiFi charges.
-r

 

[Don Haines]

I was on vacation in France on Sept. 11, 2001, scheduled to fly back to Canada two days later. When my flight was re-scheduled and i got to the airport, I was told my camera bag and all my film had to go into the luggage hold. I was distraught, figuring it would be stolen.

The problem is that as soon as this policy spreads - and it will - people working at airports will have a lot more motivation to open your bags and "clean" them out.

Now, I already have my own list of airports where I leave nothing of value - and I mean nothing as not even a pair of hq sun glasses - in my luggage. This will be a disaster for a lot of travel destinations.

Cannot wait for the first flight company to offer "safe" transport of our valuables for a "modest" fee...

Not only that, but checked baggage is subject to a lot more stress than your carry-on. Cargo holds are (almost always) not pressurized, not heated, and baggage handlers are nowhere near as careful with stuff as you are.

 

[LDS]

Not only that, but checked baggage is subject to a lot more stress than your carry-on. Cargo holds are (almost always) not pressurized, not heated, and baggage handlers are nowhere near as careful with stuff as you are.

AFAIK, modern planes holds are pressurized as well, and temperature is also kept well above zero (°C). Many cargo items would suffer or become dangerous otherwise.

In larger planes, they can also be accessed by the crew when needed, and animals can travel there.

Baggage handlers are the real issues Airlines could sell 'premium handling and storage' now.

 

[Don Haines]

Not only that, but checked baggage is subject to a lot more stress than your carry-on. Cargo holds are (almost always) not pressurized, not heated, and baggage handlers are nowhere near as careful with stuff as you are.

AFAIK, modern planes holds are pressurized as well, and temperature is also kept well above zero (°C). Many cargo items would suffer or become dangerous otherwise.

In larger planes, they can also be accessed by the crew when needed, and animals can travel there.

Baggage handlers are the real issues Airlines could sell 'premium handling and storage' now.

I checked on the pressurization... On the long haul flights the holds are pressurized to 10,000 feet. I stand corrected!

 

[Maiaibing]

The problem is that as soon as this policy spreads - and it will - people working at airports will have a lot more motivation to open your bags and "clean" them out.

Now, I already have my own list of airports where I leave nothing of value - and I mean nothing as not even a pair of hq sun glasses - in my luggage. This will be a disaster for a lot of travel destinations.

Cannot wait for the first flight company to offer "safe" transport of our valuables for a "modest" fee...

Not only that, but checked baggage is subject to a lot more stress than your carry-on. (...)

Traveling a lot I can confirm that baggage often gets an incredible beating. You can effectively protect a laptop & camera in a hard case, but it takes time - and importantly space. And it will still not protect you when:

1) someone wants to steal your stuff (and there are airports where this happens a lot)
2) if someone like TSA open your bag and mess your stuff around (happens at least once or twice a year to me)

Now I have the privilege of having a Gold/Platinum card for all my most used airlines (= extra baggage). But most people travel with 1 limited sized suitcase and 20 kg total luggage allowance and very limited carry-on.

 

[sanj]

Most irritating regulation.

 

[ahsanford]

Changing gears a little bit: in case this ban sticks / metastasizes and moves to other countries, carriers, etc. I have a trip to Scandinavia this spring and I'd like to plan accordingly.

Were I to bring the following...

• 5D3 -- no grip, no speedlite
• Two of the these three: 16-35 f/4L IS, 24-70 f/4L IS, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II (most likely the first two)
• One small prime (35 f/2 IS, 50 f/1.4, etc.)
• Gorillapod + small ball head (I'd leave that at home to make room if the 70-200 made the trip)
• Filters, hoods, charger, BR strap, etc.

...I'm assuming I need a check-able Pelican (or similar) hard case.

Which one? I'd like to keep it small as we'll be training about while we're there and I don't want to lug around some overkill sarcophagus along with our suitcases. What size/model might you guys recommend? Preferably doesn't come in black and looks more like luggage than an electronics treasure chest.

Just saw that LR rents Pelicans out. Shipping might be nasty given their size, but that's still a nice option.

Ideas? Thx!

- A

 

[Don Haines]

Changing gears a little bit: in case this ban sticks / metastasizes and moves to other countries, carriers, etc. I have a trip to Scandinavia this spring and I'd like to plan accordingly.

Were I to bring the following...

• 5D3 -- no grip, no speedlite
• Two of the these three: 16-35 f/4L IS, 24-70 f/4L IS, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II (most likely the first two)
• One small prime (35 f/2 IS, 50 f/1.4, etc.)
• Gorillapod + small ball head (I'd leave that at home to make room if the 70-200 made the trip)
• Filters, hoods, charger, BR strap, etc.

...I'm assuming I need a check-able Pelican (or similar) hard case.

Which one? I'd like to keep it small as we'll be training about while we're there and I don't want to lug around some overkill sarcophagus along with our suitcases. What size/model might you guys recommend? Preferably doesn't come in black and looks more like luggage than an electronics treasure chest.

Just saw that LR rents Pelicans out. Shipping might be nasty given their size, but that's still a nice option.

Ideas? Thx!

- A

When I travel for work, I usually have 2 or 3 of the BIG pelican cases. They get shipped air-cargo and because of the size/weight they do not get tossed around like regular baggage. I have never had a problem with them....

You could pack your camera bag and clothing in one and use it for vacations.....

 

[bluenoser1993]

A personal experience just occurred to me. It doesn't even matter if you put it in a protective case if the wrong people are looking at it. I had a cordless hair trimmer/shaver with rotating head I travelled to work with for years until one day someone at the airport felt it necessary to disassemble it. There was no notice of it, but it was obvious because it was re-assembled incorrectly and internal clips were broken, making it useless. The fact it was assembled backwards made it obvious that it wasn't just damaged by rough baggage handling.

How would insurance handle that situation with a camera? Good luck proving the camera was fully functional when you packed it.

 

[Loswr]

Changing gears a little bit: in case this ban sticks / metastasizes and moves to other countries, carriers, etc. I have a trip to Scandinavia this spring and I'd like to plan accordingly.

Were I to bring the following...

• 5D3 -- no grip, no speedlite
• Two of the these three: 16-35 f/4L IS, 24-70 f/4L IS, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II (most likely the first two)
• One small prime (35 f/2 IS, 50 f/1.4, etc.)
• Gorillapod + small ball head (I'd leave that at home to make room if the 70-200 made the trip)
• Filters, hoods, charger, BR strap, etc.

...I'm assuming I need a check-able Pelican (or similar) hard case.

Which one? I'd like to keep it small as we'll be training about while we're there and I don't want to lug around some overkill sarcophagus along with our suitcases. What size/model might you guys recommend? Preferably doesn't come in black and looks more like luggage than an electronics treasure chest.

Just saw that LR rents Pelicans out. Shipping might be nasty given their size, but that's still a nice option.

Ideas? Thx!

- A

All of that would easily fit in a Storm im2500 (or the equivalent Peli 1510), which are the carry-on approved sizes. Or the Pelican Elite Luggage 22" Carryon that I now use for travel. There's no reason you can't check a case that size, but that way you have the flexibility.

Earlier in this thread, I mentioned a trip to China. Packed in my Flipside 400 AW for that trip were a gripped 5DII, 16-35mm f/2.8L II, 24-105mm f/4L IS, 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II, TSE-24mm f/3.5L II, 35mm f/1.4L, 430EX II, 1.4x II Extender, 77mm 500D Close-Up Lens, a PowerShot S95, and various filters, cleaning supplies, etc. I loaded up the Flipside, then packed that into a Pelican Storm im2500 carryon hard case. Gear was well padded, and the backpack was nesessary at the destination.

In the image below, everything except the 17" MacBook Pro and the CF tripod/head went into the Flipside 400AW, which then went into the Storm im2500.

 

[LDS]

Which one? I'd like to keep it small as we'll be training about while we're there and I don't want to lug around some overkill sarcophagus along with our suitcases. What size/model might you guys recommend? Preferably doesn't come in black and looks more like luggage than an electronics treasure chest.

IIRC Pelican (and other makers) makes bug in different colors. Don't know, get one olive green or desert sand, maybe handlers could become more careful thinking it's military stuff - or just blow them apart Other colors are orange and yellow...

Their new "Air" line should be lighter, but no one looks more like "luggage" - even their explicit luggage cases are not exactly "anonymous".

Their site is quite exhaustive about available models, some have wheels, others don't, I have a small foldable cart to carry them around, but I still never tried to board it also Maybe in the near future I'll need.

Some also can cut foam on your design - there are also bag with moveable dividers, foam protects better, but is not versatile.